Why Stiffer Gun Control/Bannings Are In Order

[crispybits]

Or he would have gone to a playground, or a mall, or a cinema.

Arming the teachers does nothing except (possibly) moving it of of the school buildings. There are plenty of other kid-rich targets out there to go and hit if you want to massacre a lot of kids.

Unless we then arm all the park wardens, and all the mall security guards, and all the cinema ushers.

Or.... remove guns from society. It won't be easy, and it won't be perfect, and it won't be quick, but in the end you'll have a situation where the nutters either just can't get guns or have to take much bigger risks to do so.

There will always be nutters. There will always be guns. What is alarming to many people (and not just resident in America, I have friends there and I visit every year or two so I'm at reduced risk but I still take the risk and people I care about live with the risk every day) is the way it is ridiculously easy for the two to get together. You don't even need to murder or assault anyone, just wait til they go out, break into a house and the majority of the time you'll be able to find a gun somewhere in there.

[warmonger1981]

Sorry to say but the day we give up our guns is the day we become servants of the state. We have the right to own guns to protect ourselves from the government. Its not just for hunting. Crazy will always find a way to be crazy. If America wasn't such a Pussey and started to actually give out REAL HARSH sentences then MORE, NOT ALL, people might think twice before doing such things. The people, not all again, of this country has been playing the poor me or I grew up in a rough neighborhood or whatever it may be for too long. Its sad when a person can kill another and only get 20 years instead of death. Sorry but an eye for an eye. If your not supposed to own a gun and get found with one then that should be an automatic 25 yrs. Bet people think twice before doing so of get caught steeling lose a hand. This is more than guns its a culture that loves violence, idolatry, sex, gossip, and most anything else that is not good for the soul. You might not do it in real life but if that's all you watch then someday you might act on what you've learner over your life. Change our ways and feed your soul nothing but good not the CSI or real house wives of who gives a shit that people watch.

[nagerous]

Outright removal of gun ownerships is not the answer and is impractical at least in the short term. Things can certainly be done to tighten the wholesale of weapons though to prevent loner psychopaths from being able to gain such easy access to them.

[Neoteny]

[CreepersWiener]

IF YOU BELIEVE ARMING TEACHERS AND STUDENTS IS THE FUUCKING ANSWER TO THIS DILEMMA...YOU ARE A FUUCKING LIBERTARIAN DOOSH!

Guns should be illegal...it is quite clear that there are TOO many people that have mental instabilities in the United States. The right to bear arms is meant for the military and police forces...NOT THE CIVILIAN POPULACE! And what about hunting? FUCCK HUNTING! AND FUUCK HUNTERS! GO TO THE FUUCKING GROCERY STORE LIKE CIVILIZED PEOPLE!

If guns were illegal...Nancy Lanza would not have had the opportunity to purchase willy-nilly all types of assault rifles and handguns. If Nancy Lanza did not idolize gun ownership, Adam Lanza would not have been introduced to guns. Maybe he would have taken up gardening or yoga?

Barbarians use guns...grow the hell up!

Apparently the generation that is evolving into American society are TOO irresponsible to own guns...TAKE THEM AWAY!




Pay attention Libertarian whackos! The face of the body politic is a changing! It's coming! It's coming FOR YOUR GUNS!

[warmonger1981]

You do know that almost all law abiding citizens almost never do these things. Its the people who are NOT law abiding that usually commit murder. So what happens when all guns are confiscated from law abiding citizens and the criminals who don't care about the laws make their own guns? Yes you can make a single shot for about 50 bucks. I call cops it takes 5 -10 minutes to save me. Looks like I'm already dead. If I had a gun I shoot intruder call cops and make a pot of coffee and wait. Guess what? IM STILL ALIVE!!!

[karel]

i think most of our gun laws are strict enough,dont need anymore.......

[warmonger1981]

Creeperweiner if you ever get attacked I want you to take the beating until the cops show. And I have a God given right to hunt for my food not to be a servent of some corporation so that they pay me then I go to the store. If I can eat for free I will. Its called being self sufficient . People can feed themselves with guns and protect themselves with guns.

[karel]

Creeperweiner if you ever get attacked I want you to take the beating until the cops show. And I have a God given right to hunt for my food not to be a servent of some corporation so that they pay me then I go to the store. If I can eat for free I will. Its called being self sufficient . People can feed themselves with guns and protect themselves with guns.

this is why i keep a loaded gun in my house

[CreepersWiener]

You do know that almost all law abiding citizens almost never do these things. Its the people who are NOT law abiding that usually commit murder. So what happens when all guns are confiscated from law abiding citizens and the criminals who don't care about the laws make their own guns? Yes you can make a single shot for about 50 bucks. I call cops it takes 5 -10 minutes to save me. Looks like I'm already dead. If I had a gun I shoot intruder call cops and make a pot of coffee and wait. Guess what? IM STILL ALIVE!!!

You do know that you may be law abiding one day, and then suffer some type of mental disease and do crazy stuff, right? That is what is happening with these people that are doing these things. They all had some type of mental breakdown either do towards mental instabilities or/and in combination with drugs.

If banning firearms is unfeasible, then the country will definitely have to adopt stricter gun control laws. Unfortunately for you, you may have to take a mental exam every year to maintain said gun ownership...but what else would you have done? Just throw the dice and hope this type of reprehensible act won't happen again?

I am sorry. I am through gambling. It is time to put aside your political beliefs and come together for the betterment of the nation...OUR NATION!

If you and I do not agree on banning weapons...then we will have to agree on strict gun control legislature. Enough is enough...the country does not enjoy these tragedies, and arming students and teachers is NOT the answer!

[Juan_Bottom]

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[warmonger1981]

Gun control has done nothing.we need to start getting strict on criminals who break the law. We can check our guns out of a locker like the library but the criminal who doesn't pay attention to the law doesn't give a shit about gun control if anything they will welcome it as they know there are no guns in your house and they have one.

[crispybits]

Well said Morgan Freeman (and well quoted JB)

For reference

- Charlotte Bacon, 2/22/06, female
- Daniel Barden, 9/25/05, male
- Rachel Davino, 7/17/83, female.
- Olivia Engel, 7/18/06, female
- Josephine Gay, 12/11/05, female
- Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 04/04/06, female
- Dylan Hockley, 3/8/06, male
- Dawn Hochsprung, 06/28/65, female
- Madeleine F. Hsu, 7/10/06, female
- Catherine V. Hubbard, 6/08/06, female
- Chase Kowalski, 10/31/05, male
- Jesse Lewis, 6/30/06, male
- James Mattioli , 3/22/06, male
- Grace McDonnell, 12/04/05, female
- Anne Marie Murphy, 07/25/60, female
- Emilie Parker, 5/12/06, female
- Jack Pinto, 5/06/06, male
- Noah Pozner, 11/20/06, male
- Caroline Previdi, 9/07/06, female
- Jessica Rekos, 5/10/06, female
- Avielle Richman, 10/17/06, female
- Lauren Rousseau, 6/1982, female (full date of birth not specified)
- Mary Sherlach, 2/11/56, female
- Victoria Soto, 11/04/85, female
- Benjamin Wheeler, 9/12/06, male
- Allison N. Wyatt, 7/03/06, female

RIP the victims of the scumbag who I will never name again.

Take a moment pro-gun peeps, speak each name out loud and consider for a moment if their right to life was less valuable than your right to own a device that has only one purpose, that being to kill or injure living things.

[CreepersWiener]

Gun control has done nothing.we need to start getting strict on criminals who break the law. We can check our guns out of a locker like the library but the criminal who doesn't pay attention to the law doesn't give a shit about gun control if anything they will welcome it as they know there are no guns in your house and they have one.

You do realize that the United States already EXECUTES criminals, right?

Nothing has changed because of this...how could you get any tougher than executing someone????

[Woodruff]

Come on PS, common sense?

A reclusive, painfully shy kid with Aspergers and Autism, no friends that anyone knew of, and who spent most of his time at home with his mother.

Would he have had any access to guns if there were no gun shops and his mother did not own any? Would he have had black market connections?

(I also agree with Woodruff on the healthcare angle, but he's doing fine arguing that by himself.)

I understand what you are saying. I'm asking you to understand that is highly unrealistic, and doesn't make sense to punish 99.99% of the population based on what .01% does.

You mean like drug-testing welfare recipients? Huh...your hypocricy is showing again.

yeah, because .01% totally reflects the number of people who spend emergency government assistance money on drugs... not even close
At least be a good troll

Did you ever look up the statistics on your welfare drug testing program? Because it really wasn't particularly more impressive than that. I know, I know...it's silly for me to think that you're interested in the after-affects of your policies, as long as those damn poor people are put in their rightful place, amirite?

[Woodruff]

Saying I'm a Brit doesn't defeat my argument.

Also, that news story you posted - someone with a legal gun and ready to fire it if needed had absolutely no impact on the scale of a shooting, and if he had been more of a risk taker and shot and missed his target may have killed someone who wasn't a target of the shooter. Yep that's a strong case for more people carrying guns right there!

Remember, you're talking to the idiot that claimed if he had been in that theater in Colorado with his weapon, he would've ended the whole situation with little to no lives lost. He's a hero-wannabe, of the highly dangerous sort.

[Woodruff]

That seems highly unlikely. You really like to argue the exceptions don't ya?

I see the irony is still strong with this one.

I don't see what your point about other people possibly being shot by a stray bullet has to do with anything, other than to show the responsibility and awareness of the permitted gun holder?

It's not surprising you don't see how it applies to the situation, because that would get in the way of your gun-worship.

This was a high stress, high adrenaline situation. The guy acted perfectly. For the world of me I don't how you are trying to use a situation where the permitted gun holder acted responsibly, to make an argument about how gun owners might act irresponsibly. All the evidence, and I mean all of it, is contrary to your "what if's"

He isn't saying a gun owner would act irresponsibly. He's saying that even if the gun owner acted responsibly, there is a high likelihood of innocent bystanders being killed by the legal gun owner.

[Woodruff]

Ok, I'm back but only for this one topic. I knew there would probably be some really good conversation here about it, and I frankly didn't want to miss that.

First of all, gun banning is just a silly and useless idea. It goes against our Constitution and I don't believe it would stop these sorts of incidents anyway.

I do believe it is reasonable to have a discussion on gun control. In fact, I don't think you can legitimately discuss this issue WITHOUT having a discussion about gun control as well.

The idea of putting more guns into the schools is the sort of insanity I could only expect from a hero-wannabe like Phatscotty. That is an idiotic idea, truly. And I'm trained in handling weapons, remember.

The discussion that NEEDS to happen, and sadly ISN'T happening, is the discussion regarding how mental disorders are viewed in this nation. I have no idea how it is in other countries, as I have never dealt with it even while living overseas. But here in the United States, mental disorders are viewed in such a way that there is a very serious stigma associated with them. It's very counterproductive when someone can potentially lose their job for seeking help on their own from a mental health professional (and yes, this is in fact a quite common situation). It's ludicrous. THIS discussion is the one that absolutely CAN make a difference in preventing these sorts of events. Here are some important links I gleaned from another website:

http://placer.networkofcare.org/mh/library/article.aspx?id=333
http://placer.networkofcare.org/mh/library/article.aspx?id=336
http://placer.networkofcare.org/mh/library/article.aspx?id=337

It is crazy to me that it's perfectly ok for someone with back problems to go in to a doctor and ask for (for instance) Codeine or SOMA or Flexeril yet if you are seriously depressed and have thoughts of suicide, the last thing you want to do is go in to a psychiatrist and ask for a prescription for anti-depressants. Asking for help of this nature is routinely viewed as a bad thing. That's fucked up.

Just go get the help you need, dude. Losing your job is a small price to pay when it comes to the safety of the rest of us. God speed.

Yeah, I didn't think you actually gave a f*ck about those children either.

Interesting. When did you start caring about them cuz, if I remember correctly, you would be all for drilling holes in their heads and scrambling their brains if they were a few years younger?

I'm pretty sure that, yet again, you're talking out of your ass. But hey, it's ok...I've long given up on you using any sort of reasonability when it gets in the way of your distorted world-view and desire to be on a winning team.

[Phatscotty]

[Woodruff]

Sorry to say but the day we give up our guns is the day we become servants of the state. We have the right to own guns to protect ourselves from the government.

We do have that right, I agree. But to be honest, that's sort of an irrelevant reason, these days. Either a majority of the military will follow the government (rendering the fight against the government essentially finished) or a majority of the military will side with the rebels (rendering the need for personal weapons moot).

If America wasn't such a Pussey and started to actually give out REAL HARSH sentences then MORE, NOT ALL, people might think twice before doing such things.

No. This is absolutely wrong. The threat of a harsh punishment is irrelevant to someone who is counting on their own death anyway.

[CreepersWiener]

Ron Paul in disguise...

[Woodruff]

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

Yeah, I really don't disagree with this. It pissed me off when I saw the media INTERVIEWING THESE GRADESCHOOL KIDS. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? LEAVE THE DAMN KIDS ALONE.

[Woodruff]

Gun control has done nothing.we need to start getting strict on criminals who break the law.

This would have zero effect on the situations such as took place in Connecticut.

[Woodruff]

Ron Paul in disguise...

It's cute that you think Phatscotty is actually a fan of Ron Paul. He isn't. If he were, he wouldn't have abandoned Ron Paul's principles so quickly in favor of "more of the same" in the election.

[crispybits]

Lets make it really clear.

The argument is NOT that criminals will obey laws.

The argument is that by vastly reducing the number of guns in society and restricting them to much less accessible places criminals will lose a vast portion of their access to guns, and the access they do have will be restricted to profesional criminals rather than looney tunes that commit these kinds of atrocities.

You could even work on the professional criminal gun problem while you sort out the general population gun problem, the two are not exclusive.

As stated, it won't be quick, it will probably take decades, but in the end it will be part of making the US a safer place to live.

Or, you can ignore all the stats, you can ignore all the evidence from other countries that vastly restricting gun ownership vastly reduces gun crime, and you can keep claiming that your right to own a deadly weapon is more important than the general right to life.

Good luck with that.