Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

[DangerBoy]

What on earth? Our forefathers sacrificed to give people like him a right to exist! And people like you, and people like me.

Remember that when you're in a jail cell because people like Backglass raised their children to think that anyone who isn't an atheist is a threat. Of course he would never say that now because his people aren't a majority - yet! We'll see how many people are allowed to pray in public or read a Bible in his America.

[DangerBoy]

In the public sphere i would be inclined to think that yes the establishment clause does actually prevent policies which promote religious behavior, as it is very difficult to do so, without promoting a specific form of religion.

There you go, Ambrose. Atheism at it's finest. Enjoy your jail cell under these new open-minded bigots.

[radiojake]

Chill the f*ck out, Danger boy


Looks like you're looking for an excuse to fight, not very Christian of you (sorry, i had to say it)

[got tonkaed]

In the public sphere i would be inclined to think that yes the establishment clause does actually prevent policies which promote religious behavior, as it is very difficult to do so, without promoting a specific form of religion.

There you go, Ambrose. Atheism at it's finest. Enjoy your jail cell under these new open-minded bigots.

here is some of the rationale behind this statement...

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel ... index.aspx

[radiojake]

In the public sphere i would be inclined to think that yes the establishment clause does actually prevent policies which promote religious behavior, as it is very difficult to do so, without promoting a specific form of religion.

There you go, Ambrose. Atheism at it's finest. Enjoy your jail cell under these new open-minded bigots.

This (western) society is based so much on Christianity i don't really know what you are complaining about. At least you can walk through an airport without being labeled a terrorist like some other denominations.

[DangerBoy]

Chill the f*ck out, Danger boy


Looks like you're looking for an excuse to fight, not very Christian of you (sorry, i had to say it)

How would you know since you're not a Christian?

[radiojake]

Chill the f*ck out, Danger boy


Looks like you're looking for an excuse to fight, not very Christian of you (sorry, i had to say it)

How would you know since you're not a Christian?

No, i wouldn't would i??? I've only lived for 23 years in a society that is completely based on this said faith and how forgiving it is supposed to be. Just because I don't go to church doesn't mean I don't know anything about it.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Examine your own conscience DangerBoy, and keep check on your own emotions as well. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Consider the results of your actions. Do you honestly think Backglass is going to say "hmmm... I better raise my kids to be more open-minded" because you're accusing him of hatred and bigotry in a less-than-polite manner?

Heck no, in fact, his opinion of Christianity and Christians in general is going to go down.

Make certain that you have no hate in your heart before you accuse others of having it in their own.

[Backglass]

I don't hate christians...or any of the other cults for that matter.

Baloney!

Sausage! I don't hate you...even though I think you worship fairy tales.

I just want them to keep there rituals and fantasies out the public schools, public courthouses and public spaces.

Since I pay taxes just as much as you do. I want those traditions upheld.

Sorry. Paying taxes does not entitle yours or any other religion to force your beliefs down my children's throats in public school or place religious artifacts at public courthouses. It was "tradition" to keep blacks segregated and after many decades those "traditions" were abolished. Just because something might be construed as a tradition does not make it legal or just.

I would like to see your rituals and fantasies out of public places though.

lol..and what exactly would those rituals and fantasies be? Hmm?

Live & Let Live...do whatever you want but don't make me (or my kids) watch.

Except your side doesn't hold up that end of the bargain. Don't make me (or my kids) suppress our religious beliefs just because you can't handle it.

This is where you just don't get it. Nobody is suppressing your religious beliefs. You can pray for HOURS at church, perform your rituals at home for days or WEEKS, do ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO in church or home. Nobody will stop you! But for some reason, christians feel this isn't enough and they must force their beliefs in public above everyone else's religion (or lack thereof) and force everyone else to play along and watch. Nobody is suppressing or taking away anything except your wanton public bullshit.

A case in point is the whole "prayer before the high school football game" debate. You can pray for hours at church or home before the game. I seriously doubt your gods require all prayers to be immediately before the kickoff in order to be valid. You can even pray silently IN THE STANDS through the entire game if you want! Nobody will stop you! But NO. It MUST be at the game, on the field, on the PA before the kickoff in front of everyone! It must be a grand public display and waste of every non-christians time. "Don't listen" you say! Would you gladly sit by when the satanists give a little prayer? Just "don't listen" right? No way. Christians would be the FIRST to go ballistic if Witches, Muslims, Satanists wanted to enforce prayer before every high school football game and they would cry foul at another bullshit "attack on their beliefs".

These are the same people that would be more than willing to start another bloodbath of persecution like we haven't seen since the Ceasars were killing us. History has proven it. Just take a look at some of his sacreligious pics for crying out loud. If you want to be walked all over without fighting back than that's your choice. He has no desire to Live and Let Live.

WOW...and I am the hater? You have a lot of room to talk when it comes to "crusading".

As for me, you are dead wrong and seriously deluded. I have NO desire to persecute anyone or stop any religion from being practiced. Why must your religion be in my and everyones else face? You don't see Buddhists & practitioners of Shinto freaking out because they cant put a shrine at the courthouse. I just want everyone to do what they want to in the privacy of their home or church without fucking with everyone else. But christians can't seem to do that...it has to be in your face.

Our forefathers sacrificed to give us protections from people like him

180 degrees off pal. We were escaping people like YOU. Thats why we left and started fresh...to be FREE of forced religion. As much as the christians like to proclaim it, the USA was NOT founded on christianity and this is historical fact.

Intelligent design is NOT a theory based on empirical data, it is based on philosophical musings. It's place is therefore NOT in an empirical science class, but rather, in a philosophy class.

Exactly. A religions studies course? Perfectly reasonable. Study them all equally. But in Science or Biology? Bullshit. Again the christians would go insane with rage if the Wiccans wanted THEIR view of the earth's creation to be taught in Science class. I guarantee it.

Remember that when you're in a jail cell because people like Backglass raised their children to think that anyone who isn't an atheist is a threat. Of course he would never say that now because his people aren't a majority - yet! We'll see how many people are allowed to pray in public or read a Bible in his America.

You have serious issues...this kind of zealotous rhetoric is the kind to be feared. And for your information I haven't taught my children to fear/hate anyone. When they ask a question I give them several answers. When my son asked "Where did the earth come from?" I said "Some people believe it was always here, Some people believe a god created it and still others believe something else. Nobody knows for sure" and I leave it at that. My children may choose to become christians or athiests one day but it will be THEIR choice as free thinking adults...not indoctrinated and brainwashed into their heads as impressionable children.

What have you taught YOUR children about Atheists "Danger Boy"....hmm?

Sadly, I think already know.

[The1exile]

hear hear.

[Skittles!]

QFT to what Backglass said.

[DangerBoy]

:shock: WOW...and I am the hater?

Yes

You have a lot of room to talk when it comes to "crusading".

Yes, since I've never posted a insulting pic of your faith in yourself, I do.

As for me, you are dead wrong and seriously deluded. I have NO desire to persecute anyone or stop any religion from being practiced.

I bet you also have no desire to hijack a thread where someone is seeking to know more about the Bible either. Oh wait, you already did.

Why must your religion be in my and everyones else face?

Why must your hatred be in ours?

You don't see Buddhists & practitioners of Shinto freaking out because they cant put a shrine at the courthouse. I just want everyone to do what they want to in the privacy of their home or church without fucking with everyone else. But christians can't seem to do that...it has to be in your face.

Sorry about that. We'll tear down all the hospitals that we've started over the years. We'll also close down all the orphanages & stop trying to feed the poor and homeless. We wouldn't want that type of thing to be in your face.

180 degrees off pal. We were escaping people like YOU. Thats why we left and started fresh...to be FREE of forced religion. As much as the christians like to proclaim it, the USA was NOT founded on christianity and this is historical fact.

OK, I guess Thanksgiving is just a myth.

You have serious issues...this kind of zealotous rhetoric is the kind to be feared.

Ahh yes, but of course your statements about people believing in magical beings every chance is not zealous at all. Total hypocrisy.

And for your information I haven't taught my children to fear/hate anyone. When they ask a question I give them several answers. When my son asked "Where did the earth come from?" I said "Some people believe it was always here, Some people believe a god created it and still others believe something else. Nobody knows for sure" and I leave it at that.

Whatever. I seriously doubt that you could have a serious discussion about God without your usual rant about magical beings. If atheism is your true belief then there's no way that you wouldn't influence your children in some way towards that end.

My children may choose to become christians or athiests one day but it will be THEIR choice as free thinking adults...not indoctrinated and brainwashed into their heads as impressionable children.

and no matter how much you try to deny it, adults usually base their beliefs in what was modeled to them from their parents or other authority figures. Since you believe Christians to be believers in superstition I have no doubt that they will exhibit almost the same style of hatred that you do towards us.

What have you taught YOUR children about Atheists "Danger Boy"....hmm?

Sadly, I think already know.

I don't have any kids yet. When I do, I surely won't let them be subjected to people like yourself.

[Neutrino]

Dangerboy: if double standards and sheer hypocracy were antimatter, you would just have destroyed the known universe

[joecoolfrog]

I dont hate Jay I pity him and no doubt he feels the same about me.

Yeah yeah. We've heard it all before. We don't hate Christians here. Your posts prove otherwise.

I have said more than once that I detest Fundamentalists of ALL kinds but that 95% of all Christians are no doubt good honest people. If you wish to interpret that as hating all Christians then I think we can safely assume that your thought processes are very badly impaired.

[Iliad]

Dangerboy: if double standards and sheer hypocracy were antimatter, you would just have destroyed the known universe

Yeah just admit that you're wrong and that Backglass is correct

[jay_a2j]

Somebody hates me?


This country was founded on religious freedom. (Not freedom from religion) If you want freedom from religion...move. China might be a good location. Backglass.... no one "forces" anything on anyone. (are you that weak minded?)


That is all.....

[Iliad]

Somebody hates me?


This country was founded on religious freedom. (Not freedom from religion) If you want freedom from religion...move. China might be a good location. Backglass.... no one "forces" anything on anyone. (are you that weak minded?)


That is all.....

You're telling him to move?
Since you're never going to read his post, let me shorten it down:
What makes Christianity so special? Why do we have to have a school prayer? Why not Muslim? Why not Buddhism? Why can't the Christians pray at home or at Church or whenever they like instead of trying to force prayers?

Can you answer that jay?

[Skittles!]

Somebody hates me?


This country was founded on religious freedom. (Not freedom from religion) If you want freedom from religion...move. China might be a good location. Backglass.... no one "forces" anything on anyone. (are you that weak minded?)


That is all.....

HA! China is a mostly Christian country, if you didn't notice

He wants freedom from religion being shoved in his face in public places. Haven't you gotten that already?

And DangerBoy is possibly the most zealotted Christian I have ever had to meet, internet or otherwise.

[jay_a2j]

Somebody hates me?


This country was founded on religious freedom. (Not freedom from religion) If you want freedom from religion...move. China might be a good location. Backglass.... no one "forces" anything on anyone. (are you that weak minded?)


That is all.....

You're telling him to move?
Since you're never going to read his post, let me shorten it down:
What makes Christianity so special? Why do we have to have a school prayer? Why not Muslim? Why not Buddhism? Why can't the Christians pray at home or at Church or whenever they like instead of trying to force prayers?

Can you answer that jay?

Hmmm I don't recall "Christians bow your heads in a moment of silence" ever being said at school. PRAYER is not limited to Christians! AND if you are an atheist just sit there and think about your Math test 1st period! WHY must you "force" your unbelief on EVERYONE else? If you don't believe in God, than prayer to Him should not offend you!

[Iliad]

Somebody hates me?


This country was founded on religious freedom. (Not freedom from religion) If you want freedom from religion...move. China might be a good location. Backglass.... no one "forces" anything on anyone. (are you that weak minded?)


That is all.....

You're telling him to move?
Since you're never going to read his post, let me shorten it down:
What makes Christianity so special? Why do we have to have a school prayer? Why not Muslim? Why not Buddhism? Why can't the Christians pray at home or at Church or whenever they like instead of trying to force prayers?

Can you answer that jay?

Hmmm I don't recall "Christians bow your heads in a moment of silence" ever being said at school. PRAYER is not limited to Christians! AND if you are an atheist just sit there and think about your Math test 1st period! WHY must you "force" your unbelief on EVERYONE else? If you don't believe in God, than prayer to Him should not offend you!

But that's stupid!
That's forcing a prayer.

It should be the other way around. If Christians want to pray, let them! No-one is stopping them. But jay stop ignoring my posts and answer my questions

[joecoolfrog]

The First Ammendment was designed to preserve secular government, no religion should be persecuted and none allowed to dominate. Surely that means that Christians should have exactly the same rights as anybody else be they Budhist,Hindu or whatever. If every faith in the USA decided to promote itself in public buildings and before sporting events then I would imagine there would be chaos, allowing only one faith to do so would be unconstitutional so it seems sensible for it simply not to happen. Wanting something and being denied it does not constitute harrasement or persecution,though if one group is expressly favoured over another then that second group might well have a case for discrimination/persecution.

[Neutrino]

Hmmm I don't recall "Christians bow your heads in a moment of silence" ever being said at school. PRAYER is not limited to Christians! AND if you are an atheist just sit there and think about your Math test 1st period! WHY must you "force" your unbelief on EVERYONE else? If you don't believe in God, than prayer to Him should not offend you!

Yet there is still pressure. Those without any major religious leanings (or merely a non-christian religion) will be left out and alienated.

In the other thread, you are complaining about the lack of mitigating terms "forcing" evolution on people. How is this different?

How is the 10 commandments on a courthouse "religious freedom"? It is definately a pro-Christian bias...

[jay_a2j]

The First Ammendment was designed to preserve secular government

BS..... that's YOUR interpretation of it. Most of out Founding Fathers were religious men. The USA has NEVER been a "secular government".

[Skittles!]

The First Ammendment was designed to preserve secular government

BS..... that's YOUR interpretation of it. Most of out Founding Fathers were religious men. The USA has NEVER been a "secular government".

Yet they allowed any religion. Not just one. They didn't make one religion the main one, which is what the USA has done today.

[Iliad]

The First Ammendment was designed to preserve secular government

BS..... that's YOUR interpretation of it. Most of out Founding Fathers were religious men. The USA has NEVER been a "secular government".

Love it how you ignore 99% of the points and just focus on one. And then you do it again. And again. jay talk about the entire post!