Kosovo is independent!

[milosel5104]

Ne znam sta da ti odgovorim.
Kasno je,a i ovo mi postaje naporno. Svodi se na prepiranje izmedju tebe i mene. This is not why I'm here.
Ja sam se prikljucio ovoj raspravi,jer sam u bolu zbog otimanje stare srpske teritorije u kojoj sam se krstio. Hteo sam da kazem ljudima rec,dve o svojoj zemlji i nepravdi koja nas je zadesila . nepravda po zemaljskim i po bozjim zakonima. Ti vidim da si prilicno uporan,ali ako cemo o istini,naziv ove teme je laz. Ovu temu si pokrenuo da bi se nasladjivao tudjoj muci... Mene bi bilo sramota da sam ovako nesto pokrenuo
Kosovo is not independent!
And never should be! Countries that recognise this violation of international law are either blind,or evil!

KOSOVO BELONGS TO SERBIA!!!

[Frigidus]

Ne znam sta da ti odgovorim.
Kasno je,a i ovo mi postaje naporno. Svodi se na prepiranje izmedju tebe i mene. This is not why I'm here.
Ja sam se prikljucio ovoj raspravi,jer sam u bolu zbog otimanje stare srpske teritorije u kojoj sam se krstio. Hteo sam da kazem ljudima rec,dve o svojoj zemlji i nepravdi koja nas je zadesila . nepravda po zemaljskim i po bozjim zakonima. Ti vidim da si prilicno uporan,ali ako cemo o istini,naziv ove teme je laz. Ovu temu si pokrenuo da bi se nasladjivao tudjoj muci... Mene bi bilo sramota da sam ovako nesto pokrenuo
Kosovo is not independent!
And never should be! Countries that recognise this violation of international law are either blind,or evil!

KOSOVO BELONGS TO SERBIA!!!

Well, I can't critique that first bit, but why aren't they independent? Do they consider themselves Serbians? Do they all live in one part of Serbia? Could they be considered a nation (not the difference between nation and state)?

[Qwert]

Well i think that you not quit right,because world is very split on these issue.
Many people dont know of Albanian plan for BIG albania, but i think that you Ignotus know. DO you belive that albanians will stop with Kosovo.
Next country is Macedonia,and Montenegro and finaly Grecce.
Remember what i say.Principes on Etnic decision to make independent state is most dangerous solution,Look Turkey and Kurdistan-WAR.
Turkey recognise Kosovo,but he will die all in fight with Kurds,then to recognise Kurdistan Country.

[Hologram]

Hologram, I sugest that this year you go in Kirgistan on holiday.
Then stop by to Albania. After that come to Belgrade,and I'll take you to a Mc Donalds (on my acount)

Why, because things are kind of shitty in all those places?

I'm not saying they aren't, but I still support an area's right to declare independence from something, so long as they can back up that claim by military/political/diplomatic means.

[Hologram]

My stance on this is if they want to go ahead and separate, that's fine, but they'll have to defend that separation if they want to keep it.

Being from the U.S., I wholly support separatist movements anywhere (whether it's Kurdistan, Taiwan (yes, China is still claiming that they own Taiwan), or Kosovo) but they'll have to defend their declaration, just like we did. And hey, if they're lucky enough to get the backing of several major powers, then more power to them. If you'll remember, the American Patriots had some very important help from one of the world's then two most powerful empires.

What about Afghanistan? When they wanted to brake off from SSSR, Americans supplied them with Stinger missiles and other weapons. Now Us is their primary target.

Not quite. The Afghanis were very thankful for our support until we did an incredibly stupid thing and pulled our support after the war instead of trying to rebuild, which is the main reason why we're in both Afghanistan and Iraq now. Regardless of why we went, we're now trying to fix all the infrastructure that any war will destroy.

That and it's the terrorists from Iran, Arabia, and Syria that are attacking us there, not the nationals in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Hologram]

Personally I am against of any separations of countries. Countries get weaker, nationalism rises and causes political instability and it may even lead to war.

people should unite not separate!

(Sorry about all the posts in a row. I'm catching up after being gone for a few hours)

The only problem with uniting some people is that the different cultures and ethnicities usually clash, and when they're forced to cooperate and do things together, it creates lots of strife. That's basically the reason why Africa is so screwed up right now; European empires during the Age of Exploration decided that it'd be a good idea to make the different tribes who were traditionally enemies live and work together, and now we have despotic warlords waging ethnic wars on each other. This is also the reason why the Astro-Hungarian Empire fell. Sure, WWI was the catalyst that finally brought it's demise, but it had been concentrating for so long on keeping the different ethnicities such as the Serbs, Slavs, Slovenes, Poles, Kosovars, and various other groups together that it didn't have any energy to industrialize and keep up with Western Europe.

[Hologram]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

[Napoleon Ier]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

[Hologram]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

[Napoleon Ier]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

Yes, Kosovars who are in fact Albanians who emigrated onto Serbian land and decided to seize it for themselves.

[Hologram]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

Yes, Kosovars who are in fact Albanians who emigrated onto Serbian land and decided to seize it for themselves.

The Europeans decided to emigrate to Native American lands and seize it for themselves.

I'm not saying that that is a very good thing, but worse excuses for declaring independence have been used successfully, I'm sure.

[Napoleon Ier]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

Yes, Kosovars who are in fact Albanians who emigrated onto Serbian land and decided to seize it for themselves.

The Europeans decided to emigrate to Native American lands and seize it for themselves.

I'm not saying that that is a very good thing, but worse excuses for declaring independence have been used successfully, I'm sure.

Yeah, but that don't make it right, though.

[Hologram]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

Yes, Kosovars who are in fact Albanians who emigrated onto Serbian land and decided to seize it for themselves.

The Europeans decided to emigrate to Native American lands and seize it for themselves.

I'm not saying that that is a very good thing, but worse excuses for declaring independence have been used successfully, I'm sure.

Yeah, but that don't make it right, though.

I know it doesn't. I believe I implied that in the last post.

But international politics is almost never right. Whatever you think about any country, they're not out for the common good, except for maybe their own citizenry. The U.S. supports Kosovo now because they see for themselves a potential new ally, just like the French supported the fledgling U.S. because of the same reasons. (Also, they wanted to stick it to the British after humiliating them in the Seven Years War)

[milosel5104]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

There's no such nation as Kosovars! You should be better informed.
Those are Albanians! Kosovo is not a country,it's a region! In which Albanian's mass migrated,and done ethnic cleanse of non-Albanic people:
jews,slavs(SERBS,croats,macedonians,bulgarians,montenegro...),gipsys...

[Qwert]

Hologram,everything what US goverment say,for you its true and nothing but true.
US have very bad new MIlitary History, They attack Vietnam,Afghanistan and Iraq,also fight agains global Terorist,but terorist in Kosovo(first US goverment say KLA is terorist organisation and then is change mine,same like Talibans when fight agains USSR).
US can not live without to creat some global conflict,and now he creat confrontation with RUssia and China,ofcourse that pupet states gouverment(UK,and France)will give support to US,oposite what i read in BBC forums,that majority in these country is against kosovo independent.

[Dancing Mustard]

There's no such nation as Kosovars! You should be better informed.
Those are Albanians! Kosovo is not a country,it's a region! In which Albanian's mass migrated,and done ethnic cleanse of non-Albanic people:
jews,slavs(SERBS,croats,macedonians,bulgarians,montenegro...),gipsys...

Jagshemash!

[Aidan Kerr]

The Serbs are going to riot soon in the ethnically divided city of Mitrovica, Kosovo. this will so those scum hell on Earth let Kosovo burn

[ignotus]

The Serbs are going to riot soon in the ethnically divided city of Mitrovica, Kosovo. this will so those scum hell on Earth let Kosovo burn

It's a riot day in northern Mitrovica (Serb part of the city) every day...
You should really take my advice and shut up because it is clear (by your every post) that you don't know what you are talking about.

[Guiscard]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

Yes, Kosovars who are in fact Albanians who emigrated onto Serbian land and decided to seize it for themselves.

As opposed to Serbians, who emigrated onto land inhabited be the remnants of Huns and Goths, who in turn emigrated onto land inhabited by Illyrians... And each did it as violently as the group before them.

Here come those 19th century Nationalist fantasies again...

[Hologram]

I disagree with the current situation they didnt have a referendum they never were granted freedom by Serbia to give away its land.Arent a member of the UN.Havent held talks with Serbia or EU or the UN.

Neither were the American colonies under British control.

The situation is slightly different. This is as if Mexicans in California suddenly proclaimed independance based on the fact that the US had mistreated them and that they were a majority in California anyway.

Not necesarily. The difference between that scenario and what's playing out in the Balkans is that for the most part the ethnic groups stay in there own areas. There are some exceptions, sure, but for the most part, Kosovo is populated by Kosovars, not Kosovars and Serbians.

Yes, Kosovars who are in fact Albanians who emigrated onto Serbian land and decided to seize it for themselves.

As opposed to Serbians, who emigrated onto land inhabited be the remnants of Huns and Goths, who in turn emigrated onto land inhabited by Illyrians... And each did it as violently as the group before them.

Here come those 19th century Nationalist fantasies again...

Exactly. Every ethnic group has emigrated onto somebody elses land and usually has done so violently.

I'm not saying that this is necessarily moral, but the point is is that if a group of people want to separate from a country that they view as repressive, they should have the right to. Of course there is going to be opposition, which is why they have to be willing to defend the claim of independence, but it all goes back to the view of the world that Hobbes put down in that there should be rulers that look out for the good of the people and the rulers who don't need to be deposed in one way or another. If that includes separation, then so be it.