Racism as perceived by ViperOverLord

[BigBallinStalin]

It's time to bring this thread back.

So, racism is not a problem in the US?

Why then, when a 17-year old black person is brutally murdered by a white person, the police does nothing because the white person is an "upstanding member of the community"?

http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecu ... on-martin#

On February 26, our son Trayvon Martin was shot and killed as he walked to a family member's home from a convenience store where he had just bought some candy. He was only 17 years-old.

Trayvon's killer, George Zimmerman, admitted to police that he shot Trayvon in the chest. Zimmerman, the community's self appointed "neighborhood watch leader," called the police to report a suspicious person when he saw Travyon, a young black man, walking from the store. But Zimmerman still hasn't been charged for murdering our son.

Trayvon was our hero. At the age 9, Trayvon pulled his father from a burning kitchen, saving his life. He loved sports and horseback riding. At only 17 he had a bright future ahead of him with dreams of attending college and becoming an aviation mechanic. Now that’s all gone.

When Zimmerman reported Trayvon to the police, they told him not to confront him. But he did anyway. All we know about what happened next is that our 17 year-old son, who was completely unarmed, was shot and killed.

It's been nearly two weeks and the Sanford Police have refused to arrest George Zimmerman. In their public statements, they even go so far as to stand up for the killer - saying he's "a college grad" who took a class in criminal justice.

Please join us in calling on Norman Wolfinger, Florida's 18th District State's Attorney, to investigate my son's murder and prosecute George Zimmerman for the shooting and killing of Trayvon Martin.

Wow, that is just horrible. The vigilante should be jailed for life. This is why citizens should not be allowed to form local auxiliary police units. It attracts the unstable.

A vigilante isn't similar to a security business that enforces a certain set of laws.

[thegreekdog]

I drank four beers Saturday night. Therefore I drink four beers every Saturday night.

An Hispanic kid killed a black kid. Therefore, racism is a problem in the United States.

Just because your example isn't your own real life example and is, instead, from the Huffington Post, does not make it data. Just find some data Natty... it's out there. I believe in you!

[Aradhus]

Is racism a problem in the USA?

I drink four beers every night.
Therefore, racism is a problem in the United States.

Seriously though, what is the question?

Is there racism in america?
Is racism a problem?
Kinda seems like this isn't a difficult question to answer. Unless you guys have defined specific criteria for 'racism', 'problem' and 'America' which I'm not aware of.

[john9blue]

a better question would be "is racism a problem that we can solve?"

asking if racism is a problem is like asking if murder or bigotry or rape are problems. they will always be problems to some degree because you can't eliminate them.

[natty dread]

a better question would be "is racism a problem that we can solve?"

asking if racism is a problem is like asking if murder or bigotry or rape are problems. they will always be problems to some degree because you can't eliminate them.

Are you implying that people should stop trying to get rid of racism?

[keiths31]

a better question would be "is racism a problem that we can solve?"

asking if racism is a problem is like asking if murder or bigotry or rape are problems. they will always be problems to some degree because you can't eliminate them.

Are you implying that people should stop trying to get rid of racism?

You should never stop trying, but it will never be eliminated 100%...or even remotely close.

[SimplyObsessed]

Of course it's a problem in the USA, it's a problem across the entire world and all races face discrimination. The 45% that voted 'no' are kidding themselves.

[thegreekdog]

Of course it's a problem in the USA, it's a problem across the entire world and all races face discrimination. The 45% that voted 'no' are kidding themselves.

Hey! Look! It's the correct answer!

[natty dread]

Of course it's a problem in the USA, it's a problem across the entire world and all races face discrimination. The 45% that voted 'no' are kidding themselves.

Hey! Look! It's the correct answer!

Agreed

[Nola_Lifer]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... c=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

[keiths31]

This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

I remember reading that Zimmerman (the accused) is Hispanic. Doesn't take away from what happened. I sure hope the investigation reveals what actually happened and if guilty he is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[Nola_Lifer]

I think the biggest problem with America and racism today is that it isn't as blatant or obvious, except few cases, than it was lets say in the 50's and 60's.

[thegreekdog]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

But that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I agree that it is still a problem, but this is not the kind of data we would use to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I understand why someone would use this as an example, but it's certainly not proof.

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

[john9blue]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

doesn't this seem to indicate that the shooting was not racially motivated?

how can you "get away with" being black?

[keiths31]

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

I wasn't implying that with my post. Just commenting on the "facts" laid out by another poster who said the shooter was white.

[Nola_Lifer]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

But that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I agree that it is still a problem, but this is not the kind of data we would use to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I understand why someone would use this as an example, but it's certainly not proof.

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

How about housing market? If you live in a black neighborhood your house is cheaper than if you live in a white neighborhood. There are charts dedicated to black zones, white zones, and gray zones. Also, this thing we call white flight.

[thegreekdog]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

But that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I agree that it is still a problem, but this is not the kind of data we would use to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I understand why someone would use this as an example, but it's certainly not proof.

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

How about housing market? If you live in a black neighborhood your house is cheaper than if you live in a white neighborhood. There are charts dedicated to black zones, white zones, and gray zones. Also, this thing we call white flight.

Okay. The alternative theory is looking at the relative crime per capita in that particular area.

For example (not data, just an example) - I don't want to move to west Philadelphia. Is that because there are a lot of black people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes. I also don't want to move to north Philadelphia. Is it because there are a lot of white people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes.

Calling something a race issue (like the white flight phenomenon) again ignores the real problem (not to use a Player phrase).

[thegreekdog]

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

I wasn't implying that with my post. Just commenting on the "facts" laid out by another poster who said the shooter was white.

I know. I'm just saying there are racist people of all colors.

[Nola_Lifer]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

But that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I agree that it is still a problem, but this is not the kind of data we would use to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I understand why someone would use this as an example, but it's certainly not proof.

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

How about housing market? If you live in a black neighborhood your house is cheaper than if you live in a white neighborhood. There are charts dedicated to black zones, white zones, and gray zones. Also, this thing we call white flight.

Okay. The alternative theory is looking at the relative crime per capita in that particular area.

For example (not data, just an example) - I don't want to move to west Philadelphia. Is that because there are a lot of black people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes. I also don't want to move to north Philadelphia. Is it because there are a lot of white people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes.

Calling something a race issue (like the white flight phenomenon) again ignores the real problem (not to use a Player phrase).

White flight has been a problem since post WWII when cheap mortgages were given to solider but the housing was in suburban areas which were owned privately and could allow for discrimination against black soldiers. White flight isn't about moving into a black neighborhood its about how people have left. Which has also caused a disparity in public school system.

Starting in the 1950s, many people living in New Orleans began moving to the suburbs – mostly white people. Research suggests that the reasons for this are many, and unfortunately, they are mostly based in racism.

Many whites moved after desegregation to ensure that their children would not have to go to school with African Americans. And many whites felt that moving to all-white suburbs would help them to achieve higher social status among their peers who might look down on them for staying in the city.

Some historians claim that the movement of white people to the suburbs happened simply because more homes were being built in the suburbs, new highways like the I-10 loop made the suburbs more accessible, and whites, who historically have had higher incomes than African Americans, moved because they could afford to. This explanation does not hold because African Americans of greater means — of whom there were many — did not move to the suburbs along with whites. It is well-known that people of color were denied access to suburban homeownership opportunities by banks and realtors through a process known as “redlining.”

[Frigidus]

Funny how just fifty years after the end of segregation and Jim Crow and only twenty years since the Rodney King trial we have completely resolved the racial issues that have plagued this country since the beginning of its existence. It's like the huge number of angry, protesting racists we saw in the 60s just fell off the face of the earth. Maybe racists die young?

[thegreekdog]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

But that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I agree that it is still a problem, but this is not the kind of data we would use to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I understand why someone would use this as an example, but it's certainly not proof.

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

How about housing market? If you live in a black neighborhood your house is cheaper than if you live in a white neighborhood. There are charts dedicated to black zones, white zones, and gray zones. Also, this thing we call white flight.

Okay. The alternative theory is looking at the relative crime per capita in that particular area.

For example (not data, just an example) - I don't want to move to west Philadelphia. Is that because there are a lot of black people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes. I also don't want to move to north Philadelphia. Is it because there are a lot of white people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes.

Calling something a race issue (like the white flight phenomenon) again ignores the real problem (not to use a Player phrase).

White flight has been a problem since post WWII when cheap mortgages were given to solider but the housing was in suburban areas which were owned privately and could allow for discrimination against black soldiers. White flight isn't about moving into a black neighborhood its about how people have left. Which has also caused a disparity in public school system.

Starting in the 1950s, many people living in New Orleans began moving to the suburbs – mostly white people. Research suggests that the reasons for this are many, and unfortunately, they are mostly based in racism.

Many whites moved after desegregation to ensure that their children would not have to go to school with African Americans. And many whites felt that moving to all-white suburbs would help them to achieve higher social status among their peers who might look down on them for staying in the city.

Some historians claim that the movement of white people to the suburbs happened simply because more homes were being built in the suburbs, new highways like the I-10 loop made the suburbs more accessible, and whites, who historically have had higher incomes than African Americans, moved because they could afford to. This explanation does not hold because African Americans of greater means — of whom there were many — did not move to the suburbs along with whites. It is well-known that people of color were denied access to suburban homeownership opportunities by banks and realtors through a process known as “redlining.”

Are we talking about current "white flight" or 1950s white flight? I thought we were talking about current white flight (notwithstanding whatever you've quoted above).

I can certainly understand there being a concern about white flight in the 1950s (given that overt racism was more prevelant), regardless of the relative crime statistics of cities (although in pre-1950s America, I'd bet there was something like WASP flight from the Irish, Jews, and Italians). I just don't believe there is a correlation between people leaving cities and racism (maybe people leaving cities and crime or people leaving cities and better schools).

[notyou2]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148905661/killing-of-fla-teen-trayvon-martin-becomes-national-story-about-race?sc=fb&cc=fp

You can listen to audio here. The police tell him not to follow the boy, and he did. You hear Zimmerman say "They always get away with it." Implying that the young man had done something wrong even though he was walking down a street. How can you claim self-defense when you pursued someone? This may not be a hate crime but lets state the facts here; white man see black male walking down street. White man approaches black male on street. White man shoots black male on street.

But that's not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I agree that it is still a problem, but this is not the kind of data we would use to determine whether racism is still a problem in the United States. I understand why someone would use this as an example, but it's certainly not proof.

And by the way (for everyone else), just because a perpetrator is not white doesn't mean his crime is not a hate crime based on racism.

How about housing market? If you live in a black neighborhood your house is cheaper than if you live in a white neighborhood. There are charts dedicated to black zones, white zones, and gray zones. Also, this thing we call white flight.

Okay. The alternative theory is looking at the relative crime per capita in that particular area.

For example (not data, just an example) - I don't want to move to west Philadelphia. Is that because there are a lot of black people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes. I also don't want to move to north Philadelphia. Is it because there are a lot of white people there? No. Is it because there is a lot of crime there? Yes.

Calling something a race issue (like the white flight phenomenon) again ignores the real problem (not to use a Player phrase).

Ever think that maybe the guy with the gun is committing most of the crimes in the area? Perhaps he is unbalanced.

In the city I live in the former fire chief became an arsonist and was testing the response time of the various fire stations....until they caught him. He had become unstable after retirement. The good thing is, no one was hurt and his weapon was a Bic.

[natty dread]

68-year old black man with a medical condition murdered by racist police officers



Oh but no, racism is not a problem in the USA.

[kentington]

Regarding the "white flight" : There are black and mexican neighborhoods that I wouldn't move into. Those are the gang areas around here. If I go near them I would be harassed and if I didn't leave I would be in trouble. But the area I live in that is diverse doesn't have this issue. I am not wanted in those areas.
In community college I had to sit and listen to a guy ranting at me because white people were treating his "people" poorly. Yet, he was going to school for free and talked in class and didn't turn in any of his work. I finally told him my mom is from Canada and my dad's side is Dutch and were poor living in a bad area of Lakewood. He calmed down after that.

Thus, I would say that there is a racism problem in the US, but there are many culprits of the hate.

[patches70]

68-year old black man with a medical condition murdered by racist police officers



Oh but no, racism is not a problem in the USA.

Hmmm, I don't think racism had anything to do with that.....

http://www.thedailywhiteplains.com/news ... ying-knife

But who knows, people make up whatever story they want I suppose.