Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

[joecoolfrog]

Somebody hates me?


This country was founded on religious freedom. (Not freedom from religion) If you want freedom from religion...move. China might be a good location. Backglass.... no one "forces" anything on anyone. (are you that weak minded?)


That is all.....

You're telling him to move?
Since you're never going to read his post, let me shorten it down:
What makes Christianity so special? Why do we have to have a school prayer? Why not Muslim? Why not Buddhism? Why can't the Christians pray at home or at Church or whenever they like instead of trying to force prayers?

Can you answer that jay?

Hmmm I don't recall "Christians bow your heads in a moment of silence" ever being said at school. PRAYER is not limited to Christians! AND if you are an atheist just sit there and think about your Math test 1st period! WHY must you "force" your unbelief on EVERYONE else? If you don't believe in God, than prayer to Him should not offend you!

I actually think there is a simple and common sense solution to this,why not simply have a minutes silence for 'reflection' . This would give 100 % of the people present the opportunity to pray or simply collect their thoughts, nobody gets offended or feels left out.

[jay_a2j]

I actually think there is a simple and common sense solution to this,why not simply have a minutes silence for 'reflection' . This would give 100 % of the people present the opportunity to pray or simply collect their thoughts, nobody gets offended or feels left out.

Good idea. So much so, that they used to do that. I remember before class they would say "Bow your head in a moment of silence". Not prayer! yet it was offensive to some atheist who sued and got it removed.

[Neutrino]

I actually think there is a simple and common sense solution to this,why not simply have a minutes silence for 'reflection' . This would give 100 % of the people present the opportunity to pray or simply collect their thoughts, nobody gets offended or feels left out.

Good idea. So much so, that they used to do that. I remember before class they would say "Bow your head in a moment of silence". Not prayer! yet it was offensive to some atheist who sued and got it removed.

... Which merely proves some people are greedy and will take any opportunity to make a buck.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Alright, well I for one have never felt persecuted at school or gotten the feeling that I can't freely practice my religion. I have never been ridiculed for my religion, nor have I seen anyone else suffering as such. There are isolated incidents of it, but then again, the Christian right in the deeps south is responsible for several similar "isolated incident" as well.

With that, I'd like to say some stuff about what I see about frightening tunnel-vision.

Most of out Founding Fathers were religious men.

If you call Deism a religion, then yes, most of them were religious men.

The USA has NEVER been a "secular government".

What part of separation of Church and state am I misreading then?

PRAYER is not limited to Christians!

Nor is it limited to moments of silence.

Anywho, I feel perfectly comfortable at the moment, I don't feel persecuted or pressured into atheism, and I certainly don't feel that my rights are being trodden upon when there is no moment of silence before my football games.

[MR. Nate]

How is the 10 commandments on a courthouse "religious freedom"? It is definately a pro-Christian bias...

The 10 commandments are supported by all the abrahamic religions are supporters of the 10 commandments (the muslims claim he was a prophet of allah) So I wouldn't say they are particularly pro-Christian.

Wouldn't religious freedom be the ability for all religions to demonstrate freely?

Yet they allowed any religion. Not just one. They didn't make one religion the main one, which is what the USA has done today.

Skittles, I'm not sure which religion you're referring to. I'm going to assume Christianity, but I think that you're probably a bit off base. While a number of public figures profess Christianity, it is only because the bulk of the nation identifies itself as christian. Unfortunately, those professions impact nothing: neither the public policy nor the private practice of most politicians is consistent with a Christian model.

As for persecution, it usually comes from authorities afraid to allow, say public gatherings, because they are unclear on what is constitutional and what is not.

[Snorri1234]

Hey guys, is it okay if I come to your school and peform a bunch of satanist rituals? Or if I hang the 11 satanic rules of the earth on the city hall?

Also, I'm amused about some people thinking Christians are persecuted in the US....

[yodermk]

New here. Awesome discussion, folks. Much more respectable than on most other non-Christian sites I've seen. Granted, I've only read through the first few pages, haven't had time for the last few yet. But in the first few I don't think I saw a complete answer to this one, so let me try.

I have question if i may to jf why did GOD lie to adam & eve .

In genesis he say you you must not eat the fruit of knowledge ,if you do you will die the same day .

Yeah that one is a common criticism, but I think there are at least three answers to it. I don't know which is closest to the truth, but any would be sufficient to prove that God was not lying.

First the verse: Gen 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it; for in the day that you eat of it you will surely die."

Ok, so Adam and Eve ate, and died several hundred years later. What gives?

Answer #1: The word "day" in Hebrew has three possible definitions: A 24-hour day, the 12-hour daylight part of a day, or a long but finite period of time. (In fact, it is the ONLY word in ancient Hebrew that CAN mean a long but finite period of time. I believe that is the proper definition in the Creation week.) Before the Fall, Adam and Eve could have lived forever without going through physical death. But because they sinned, they had to go through death in the current "day" (finite period of time).

Answer #2: They did die the very literal moment they ate the fruit - spiritually. Romans 5:12 says "Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned." Clearly, death came into the world through sin. But what kind of death is it talking about? I think it's clearly referring to spiritual death, the loss of communion with God. Certainly that happened to Adam the moment he disobeyed.

Answer #3. Immediate substitution. God had declared that they should die physically that very 24-hour day, and His nature requires Him to carry out just punishment. But He had mercy and provided something else instead of the wrath Adam and Eve deserved. Genesis 3:21 "Yahweh God made coats of skins for Adam and for his wife, and clothed them." To do that, God had to kill an animal. This would be the first of many Old Testament references to substitutionary atonement. (The next and most obvious one is where God provided a ram to Abraham when he was to sacrifice Isaac in Genesis 22.) Clearly, this points straight to Jesus Christ, as His death on the cross drew all the wrath of God that would have otherwise been destined for us!

Question why is it in the book of job god gives one of his own most faithful to satan ""ALL RIGHt" the lord said to satan every thing he has is in your power .

So god lets satan kill all of jobs servants to provea point ,not very merciful
this God .

he then let's satan give job more testing,[...]

Well, for the same reason God allows that today. Did you know that there are thousands, maybe millions, of Christians in several countries that are suffering terrible persecution for no other reason than because they believe in Christ? Jesus said (John 16:2) "They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time comes that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God." The Bible never says that Christians will have perfect lives. We are still in a world engaged in a spiritual battle. Satan's minions, though not having absolute authority, do have a fair bit of power over the operations of the world. That is the case simply because their time is not up yet. God has a reason for allowing this to happen -- refining people in order to know who really loves Him.

In revelation its 144,000 people of israle will get in to god's kingdom
being kind I dont think he just ment any one from thr land we call israle did he ?

Any one want to workout the percentage 144,000 is of the billions that have lived and are going to be born.

No one would go to the casinos with odd's that bad

Numbers in Revelation are highly symbolic. In fact, verse 1:1 specifically says that the purpose of the book is to signify what is to come. The numbers have meaning, but no where do they say only 144,000 will get to heaven. In fact, if you read a little further to 7:9, you see this: "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands."

Hope that helps! Any more questions that haven't been answered adequately, feel free to hurl at me. I love defending the authenticity of the Bible!

[MR. Nate]

Hey guys, is it okay if I come to your school and peform a bunch of satanist rituals? Or if I hang the 11 satanic rules of the earth on the city hall?

If we can have church in school at the same time, & as long as we get the 10 commandments next to it.

Also, I'm amused about some people thinking Christians are persecuted in the US....

I don't think any religious group is completely free from persecution, if you define it broadly, but it's never systematic and only rarely more than a minor inconvenience.

[joecoolfrog]

I actually think there is a simple and common sense solution to this,why not simply have a minutes silence for 'reflection' . This would give 100 % of the people present the opportunity to pray or simply collect their thoughts, nobody gets offended or feels left out.

Good idea. So much so, that they used to do that. I remember before class they would say "Bow your head in a moment of silence". Not prayer! yet it was offensive to some atheist who sued and got it removed.

Never heard of that,have you got any evidence ?
If its true then I would say that it was absurd and the court should have thrown out the action !

As to your other point you appear to have confused a Christian tradition with secular government ,the USA has the first but not the second and thats a FACT not a theory

[joecoolfrog]

Hey guys, is it okay if I come to your school and peform a bunch of satanist rituals? Or if I hang the 11 satanic rules of the earth on the city hall?

If we can have church in school at the same time, & as long as we get the 10 commandments next to it.

Seems to me that both the school and city hall would soon run out of wall space,seems sensible to just have no religious icons in the first place.

Also, I'm amused about some people thinking Christians are persecuted in the US....

I don't think any religious group is completely free from persecution, if you define it broadly, but it's never systematic and only rarely more than a minor inconvenience.

I would say this was true of the USA at the moment but I wouldnt care to see a great deal more fundamentalism,Christian or otherwise. Worldwide there has been terrible persecution,much of it systematic, I believe it is the single biggest reason for individuals feeling hostile towards religion.

[satanspaladin]

To Yodermk

Thank you for taking the time to answer my partner kate questions(satanspaladin) she has had answers
to theses topics before by mr nate and other jc members and is very much appreciative of the time you all give her in trying to find faith.

I know at the moment she is trying to reconcile Mr Nates view that animals are not as meaningful
to god as man .

She has asked me to let her know what's going on in this topic wile she is in hospital but i hope you will all forgive me if i do not do so as i know how up set she would be to know that her comments to coffee cream to keep looking for answers to his faith sowed so much discord among you all.

Yours sincerely Sarah

[Backglass]

I bet you also have no desire to hijack a thread where someone is seeking to know more about the Bible either. Oh wait, you already did.

IF you do not wish opposing views, use private messaging. Again, if you must do so in a public forum, be prepared for debate.

Why must your hatred be in ours?

Thank you for not answering the question. Why must your religion be in everyone face?

You don't see Buddhists & practitioners of Shinto freaking out because they cant put a shrine at the courthouse. I just want everyone to do what they want to in the privacy of their home or church without fucking with everyone else. But christians can't seem to do that...it has to be in your face.

Sorry about that.

In other words "f*ck YOU" we will force our religion down your throats in public all we want. Nice answer kid.

We'll tear down all the hospitals that we've started over the years. We'll also close down all the orphanages & stop trying to feed the poor and homeless. We wouldn't want that type of thing to be in your face.

Oh please...stop whining would ya? I have never doubted that ALL religions have done great public works. However gods & religions are not necessary to feed homeless people or to be kind to your fellow man.

You do not have a monopoly on good deeds.

180 degrees off pal. We were escaping people like YOU. Thats why we left and started fresh...to be FREE of forced religion. As much as the christians like to proclaim it, the USA was NOT founded on christianity and this is historical fact.

OK, I guess Thanksgiving is just a myth.

Huh? If you seriously think the pilgrims sat down with the indians and thanked JESUS for the bountiful harvest, you need to re-read your history books.

You have serious issues...this kind of zealotous rhetoric is the kind to be feared.

Ahh yes, but of course your statements about people believing in magical beings every chance is not zealous at all.

Well...you do. Don't you?

Whatever. I seriously doubt that you could have a serious discussion about God without your usual rant about magical beings.

"Whatever". Nice blow off. In other words you don't believe a word I am saying and secretly think I am "preaching atheism" to my kids every night. You see, unlike you we don't sit around the dinner table and talk about religion. And I have had plenty of serious discussion about the fact that gods don't exist within these forums.

If atheism is your true belief then there's no way that you wouldn't influence your children in some way towards that end.

You speak as if atheism is a religion of some kind. It is simply the non-belief in gods. Nothing more.

and no matter how much you try to deny it, adults usually base their beliefs in what was modeled to them from their parents or other authority figures. Since you believe Christians to be believers in superstition I have no doubt that they will exhibit almost the same style of hatred that you do towards us.

Well it didn't work for me. My parent are christians. I guess in your eyes they failed, huh. Perhaps they should have started the brainwashing earlier. My kids will believe whatever THEY want to believe. I go the extra mile NOT to color their views. Whenever they ask anything remotely religious I always give every point of view I can think of. "Some people believe this...some people believe that". Unlike christians who just says "this is the ONLY way and if you don't do it your going to burn in hell".

I don't have any kids yet. When I do, I surely won't let them be subjected to people like yourself.

And this comes as no surprise. You wouldn't want your kids growing up into adults who make their own decisions after all. BLASPHEMY!

[CoffeeCream]

Just wanted to say to Beezer & Dangerboy that just because atheists come in here spouting off doesn't mean I will be encouraged to stop reading the Bible. I can't stop them from espousing hate, but they can't stop me from reading either. When you engage them though I think it just encourages them to be even more disrespectful towards your religion.

Dangerboy, you are "dangerously" close to having people lose whatever respect they had for your views. I understand frustration when someone ridicules you and closes their mind towards the good things your religion has done. Remember, we sort of dealt with this in the Iraq War thread. If the negativity of Christian haters and America haters bugs you that much then just ignore them. Life is filled with good and bad. Let's focus on why you believe in what you believe and let the merits of it stand for themselves.

If not then you're really defeating the purpose of the thread. I promised I would only talk to Christians here and not berate them. I can't control the behavior of others.

[joecoolfrog]

Just wanted to say to Beezer & Dangerboy that just because atheists come in here spouting off doesn't mean I will be encouraged to stop reading the Bible. I can't stop them from espousing hate, but they can't stop me from reading either. When you engage them though I think it just encourages them to be even more disrespectful towards your religion.

Dangerboy, you are "dangerously" close to having people lose whatever respect they had for your views. I understand frustration when someone ridicules you and closes their mind towards the good things your religion has done. Remember, we sort of dealt with this in the Iraq War thread. If the negativity of Christian haters and America haters bugs you that much then just ignore them. Life is filled with good and bad. Let's focus on why you believe in what you believe and let the merits of it stand for themselves.

If not then you're really defeating the purpose of the thread. I promised I would only talk to Christians here and not berate them. I can't control the behavior of others.

You are so pompous !
Only Ambrose is hardly an atheist is he ?

[joecoolfrog]

Atheists and other Sensible Posters

Just because fanatics and bigots come on this thread spouting off and espousing hate, dont let them bother you

[Snorri1234]

Ambrose is a sensible poster:D

[jay_a2j]

Most of out Founding Fathers were religious men.

If you call Deism a religion, then yes, most of them were religious men.

The USA has NEVER been a "secular government".

What part of separation of Church and state am I misreading then?

PRAYER is not limited to Christians!

Nor is it limited to moments of silence.

I call Christianity a religion.

Separation of church and state has been twisted to mean what it was never meant to mean. It was to protect the church from the state NOT the other way around.

Apparently you missed the point of the "moment of silence" because I had no problem with it either....but they no longer do it anymore because some atheist didn't want Christians to use it for prayer.

[The1exile]

I call Christianity a religion.

They were recorded to be xians?

Separation of church and state has been twisted to mean what it was never meant to mean. It was to protect the church from the state NOT the other way around.

Bullshit. That's twisting it to your own advantage. Like freedom of speech means you can spout your religious rhetoric on street corners but no-one can answer back. I love the smell of couble standards in the morning

Apparently you missed the point of the "moment of silence" because I had no problem with it either....but they no longer do it anymore because some atheist didn't want Christians to use it for prayer.

Source?

[size=0]I hate to take the bait but...[/size]

[Snorri1234]

I call Christianity a religion.

So do I. But really that is totally irrelevant.

Separation of church and state has been twisted to mean what it was never meant to mean. It was to protect the church from the state NOT the other way around.

No it was to protect them both from eachother. You can't protect the church from the state but not the other way around, because that will lead to it corrupting and eventually the state still affecting the church.

Also, seperation of church and state is there so nobody can tell you how to practice your religion. It means there is no state-religion that determines what you believe.

Apparently you missed the point of the "moment of silence" because I had no problem with it either....but they no longer do it anymore because some atheist didn't want Christians to use it for prayer.

Ooh ooh the atheists are out to get us Christians! I can just picture them in their rat-infested houses telling their kids to have sex with whoever they want and at whatever age they can. I bet they're plotting to bring books filled with their lies to innocent school librairies where our little boys and girls will be indoctrined by their "facts" and "logic". All that illicit drug using and masturbating and unprotected sex will damn our children to hell. They also eat babies.


Did you actually have a source for that story or is it another one of your little fantasies?

[DangerBoy]

IF you do not wish opposing views, use private messaging. Again, if you must do so in a public forum, be prepared for debate.

Except he didn't address the CC Christ-haters club. He addressed the Jesus Freaks specifically. You are free to start your own hate filled thread in the clubhouse. I bet you also butt in and interrupt other people at your job when they're in the middle of a conversation as well.

Thank you for not answering the question. Why must your religion be in everyone face?

My religion is not in your face. I will however practice it in public if I choose to do so. If that offends you then too bad. It just means you're too weak to handle people not following your atheist beliefs.

Why must your hatred be in our faces?

In other words "f*ck YOU" we will force our religion down your throats in public all we want. Nice answer kid.

No, more like if you can't handle it then that's your problem. I don't throw temper tantrums when Mormons come knocking at my door even though I don't agree with them. I also don't object to Jews holding meetings in public even though I disagree with them. A majority of people practice religion in public and it is PROTECTED FREE SPEECH. I know you hate that but too bad.

I notice you conveniently left off a majority of what I said so I'll repost it since you're being purposefully dishonest. I'll bold what you left out.

Sorry about that. We'll tear down all the hospitals that we've started over the years. We'll also close down all the orphanages & stop trying to feed the poor and homeless. We wouldn't want that type of thing to be in your face.

Oh please...stop whining would ya? I have never doubted that ALL religions have done great public works. However gods & religions are not necessary to feed homeless people or to be kind to your fellow man.

The only people whining are you and your kind. Mommy, the Christians prayed in public at the courthouse! WWWAAAAAHHH! Ahh, is the itty bitty atheist angry wangrwy?

You do not have a monopoly on good deeds.

Which I never said so there's another purposefully dishonest thing you've attributed to me.

Huh? If you seriously think the pilgrims sat down with the indians and thanked JESUS for the bountiful harvest, you need to re-read your history books.

and if you don't then you need to read William Bradford's History of Plymouth Plantation. I doubt you will since you hate the idea of people praying in public.

Well...you do. Don't you?

Not as defined by smug arrogant atheists such as yourself.

"Whatever". Nice blow off. In other words you don't believe a word I am saying and secretly think I am "preaching atheism" to my kids every night. You see, unlike you we don't sit around the dinner table and talk about religion. And I have had plenty of serious discussion about the fact that gods don't exist within these forums.

Perhaps not "preaching" atheism like a pastor would preach from a pulpit on Sunday morning. I would find it hard to believe that you don't use the same amount of anti-Christian zeal with your kids that you do here at Conquer Club. You're almost giddy with preaching your God-hate.

You speak as if atheism is a religion of some kind. It is simply the non-belief in gods. Nothing more.

Yet Ron Reagan Jr. keeps using religious symbolism on Air America in preaching atheism. There's even a segment entitled The Pagan Pulpit. Hmmm.

Well it didn't work for me. My parent are christians. I guess in your eyes they failed, huh. Perhaps they should have started the brainwashing earlier. My kids will believe whatever THEY want to believe. I go the extra mile NOT to color their views. Whenever they ask anything remotely religious I always give every point of view I can think of. "Some people believe this...some people believe that". Unlike christians who just says "this is the ONLY way and if you don't do it your going to burn in hell".

and I'm sure that you have NEVER conveyed this skeptical outlook to your children in ANY way, shape, or form. You take so much to time to belittle those who are Christians, I just can't believe that you are going the "extra mile" to not pass that on to your kids.

[DangerBoy]

Just wanted to say to Beezer & Dangerboy that just because atheists come in here spouting off doesn't mean I will be encouraged to stop reading the Bible. I can't stop them from espousing hate, but they can't stop me from reading either. When you engage them though I think it just encourages them to be even more disrespectful towards your religion.

Dangerboy, you are "dangerously" close to having people lose whatever respect they had for your views. I understand frustration when someone ridicules you and closes their mind towards the good things your religion has done. Remember, we sort of dealt with this in the Iraq War thread. If the negativity of Christian haters and America haters bugs you that much then just ignore them. Life is filled with good and bad. Let's focus on why you believe in what you believe and let the merits of it stand for themselves.

If not then you're really defeating the purpose of the thread. I promised I would only talk to Christians here and not berate them. I can't control the behavior of others.

You are so pompous !
Only Ambrose is hardly an atheist is he ?

and there you go again. Desiring to know more about the Bible without any interference from atheist propaganda is considered pompous.

[Snorri1234]

Oustanding intellectual debate, DangerBoy. I'll make sure to tell my atheist kids that not all christians are baby-eating monsters that kill people over religion.

[unriggable]

IF you do not wish opposing views, use private messaging. Again, if you must do so in a public forum, be prepared for debate.

Except he didn't address the CC Christ-haters club. He addressed the Jesus Freaks specifically. You are free to start your own hate filled thread in the clubhouse. I bet you also butt in and interrupt other people at your job when they're in the middle of a conversation as well.

Funny how hate now includes "absence of religion".

Thank you for not answering the question. Why must your religion be in everyone face?

My religion is not in your face. I will however practice it in public if I choose to do so. If that offends you then too bad. It just means you're too weak to handle people not following your atheist beliefs.

Why must your hatred be in our faces?

Your logic makes no sense. Muslims get kicked out of an airport for praying but you're allowed to do whatever the f*ck you want because your god has a bigged dick than theirs?

In other words "f*ck YOU" we will force our religion down your throats in public all we want. Nice answer kid.

No, more like if you can't handle it then that's your problem. I don't throw temper tantrums when Mormons come knocking at my door even though I don't agree with them. I also don't object to Jews holding meetings in public even though I disagree with them. A majority of people practice religion in public and it is PROTECTED FREE SPEECH. I know you hate that but too bad.

I notice you conveniently left off a majority of what I said so I'll repost it since you're being purposefully dishonest. I'll bold what you left out.

Free speech doesn't include mind-raping children with purified bullshit. If you Christians think you have the privilege to do that, then so do the Muslims, the Jews, the Mayans, the Volsungs, the UFO clubs, and any other religion belonging to a god that hasn't been invented yet.

And another thing: why is free speech okay for religion, but not okay for 'Bong hits 4 Jesus'? Isn't that religious?

Free speech also doesn't include this shit:

Sorry about that. We'll tear down all the hospitals that we've started over the years. We'll also close down all the orphanages & stop trying to feed the poor and homeless. We wouldn't want that type of thing to be in your face.

Oh please...stop whining would ya? I have never doubted that ALL religions have done great public works. However gods & religions are not necessary to feed homeless people or to be kind to your fellow man.

The only people whining are you and your kind. Mommy, the Christians prayed in public at the courthouse! WWWAAAAAHHH! Ahh, is the itty bitty atheist angry wangrwy?

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096/]"MINNEAPOLIS - The Council on American-Islamic Relations called Tuesday for an investigation into the behavior of airline staff and airport security in the removal of six Muslim scholars from a US Airways flight a day earlier.

A passenger raised concerns about the imams — three of whom said their normal evening prayers in the airport terminal before boarding the Phoenix-bound plane, according to one — through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways."[/url]

You do not have a monopoly on good deeds.

Which I never said so there's another purposefully dishonest thing you've attributed to me.

You just think that Christians have something other religions don't, you're very wrong.

Huh? If you seriously think the pilgrims sat down with the indians and thanked JESUS for the bountiful harvest, you need to re-read your history books.

and if you don't then you need to read William Bradford's History of Plymouth Plantation. I doubt you will since you hate the idea of people praying in public.

It's different since everybody in the town was christian and atheism, science and reason weren't exactly widespread back then. Don't use the past to justify the present.

Well...you do. Don't you?

Not as defined by smug arrogant atheists such as yourself.

This is coming from somebody representing a group who rejects science, a carefully researched labor. I suggest you hold on to the word 'arrogant'.

"Whatever". Nice blow off. In other words you don't believe a word I am saying and secretly think I am "preaching atheism" to my kids every night. You see, unlike you we don't sit around the dinner table and talk about religion. And I have had plenty of serious discussion about the fact that gods don't exist within these forums.

Perhaps not "preaching" atheism like a pastor would preach from a pulpit on Sunday morning. I would find it hard to believe that you don't use the same amount of anti-Christian zeal with your kids that you do here at Conquer Club. You're almost giddy with preaching your God-hate.

It's not hating god, it's showing no respect for people who let a fake god get in the way of reason.

You speak as if atheism is a religion of some kind. It is simply the non-belief in gods. Nothing more.

Yet Ron Reagan Jr. keeps using religious symbolism on Air America in preaching atheism. There's even a segment entitled The Pagan Pulpit. Hmmm.

That's not atheism that's paganism. Let me give you an equivalent:

Is this a math equation:

e=mc^2

Yes. Is this a math equation:

y=mx+b

Yes. Is this a math equation:



No. There is no math equation. Similarly, there is no god me or blackglass or any other atheist believes in.

Well it didn't work for me. My parent are christians. I guess in your eyes they failed, huh. Perhaps they should have started the brainwashing earlier. My kids will believe whatever THEY want to believe. I go the extra mile NOT to color their views. Whenever they ask anything remotely religious I always give every point of view I can think of. "Some people believe this...some people believe that". Unlike christians who just says "this is the ONLY way and if you don't do it your going to burn in hell".

and I'm sure that you have NEVER conveyed this skeptical outlook to your children in ANY way, shape, or form. You take so much to time to belittle those who are Christians, I just can't believe that you are going the "extra mile" to not pass that on to your kids.

Again. Atheist parents like my dad simply don't talk about religion unless it comes up in conversation. If you look at it that way then you should also think of the narrator in any book written in 3rd person as being another character.

[Backglass]

<DING! Round four!>

You are free to start your own hate filled thread in the clubhouse. I bet you also butt in and interrupt other people at your job when they're in the middle of a conversation as well.

You would be wrong again on both counts. Don't hate normal christians. I do hate those who feel they are above everyone else and must force their religion upon the masses in public places I pay for however.

My religion is not in your face. I will however practice it in public if I choose to do so. If that offends you then too bad. It just means you're too weak to handle people not following your atheist beliefs.

Nice contradiction. "I'm not in your face, HOWEVER I will do it anywhere I damn well please".

In your rage you have once again missed my point. I DON'T CARE what you do on your own. Go to the park, sit under a tree and pray all day. Fine by me, your not bothering anyone. But when you want to STOP SCHOOL to pray or put your artifacts up in a taxpayer paid building, that's not you going about your business. Thats putting it in every non-christians face because you are holier than though and yes...I hate that.

Why must your hatred be in our faces?

You went to the jay_a2j school of debate didn't you. I "hate gods" because I don't think they exist. I am also a Fairy and Centaur hater by your standards. And those damn Leprechauns! HATE THEM!

Seriously this is a very common christian preaching. "Atheists don't believe in god so they must be very angry, hate filled people who are nothing like us! They are out to get you with their hate!!." Of course, that's not true. I am a normal American just like you...I just don't believe gods exist.

No, more like if you can't handle it then that's your problem. I don't throw temper tantrums when Mormons come knocking at my door even though I don't agree with them. I also don't object to Jews holding meetings in public even though I disagree with them. A majority of people practice religion in public and it is PROTECTED FREE SPEECH. I know you hate that but too bad.

Your so funny. Now Atheists hate free speech? Pot, meet kettle!

NEWS FLASH: Stopping a public, tax-payer funded high school football game in order to perform a religious ritual is NOT free speech. I must have missed that part of the constitution.

I also have no problem with Mormons knocking on my door or jews holding meetings. They are not forcing my kids to listen or placing the star of david on the courthouse lawn. Those kind of actions seem to be above them.

The only people whining are you and your kind. Mommy, the Christians prayed in public at the courthouse!

Oh really? I guess the "take back america" emails that constantly circulate from the christian community are just jokes? What a lovely piece, just filled with "love your neighbor" christian joy. I would also bet a thousand dollars you will copy it and email it to everyone you know because it reads exactly like your posts.

WWWAAAAAHHH! Ahh, is the itty bitty atheist angry wangrwy?

Oh, very mature. You really showed me!

You do not have a monopoly on good deeds.

Which I never said so there's another purposefully dishonest thing you've attributed to me.

Then why did you bring up christian hospital and orphanages in the first place? Neither have the slightest bit to do with the debate here...it was just your feeble attempt to bolster your position by playing the "do-gooder" card.

Not as defined by smug arrogant atheists such as yourself

Well we all know christians are never smug.

Perhaps not "preaching" atheism like a pastor would preach from a pulpit on Sunday morning. I would find it hard to believe that you don't use the same amount of anti-Christian zeal with your kids that you do here at Conquer Club.

Well you fear the fact I don't believe in gods so much you don't really believe anything I say so it's no surprise. No...in fact I have never uttered the word "atheist" in front of my kids. We simply aren't a religious family and don't discuss matter of religion at all. No Zeal, no hatred...we just don't talk about it. There are many more worthwhile things to talk about with my kids than two thousand year old superstitions in my opinion.

You're almost giddy with preaching your God-hate.

And your "cup runneth over" with christian love & understanding.

Yet Ron Reagan Jr. keeps using religious symbolism on Air America in preaching atheism. There's even a segment entitled The Pagan Pulpit. Hmmm.

I'm sorry, but I am not Ron Reagan Jr. Not sure why you think that I am.

and I'm sure that you have NEVER conveyed this skeptical outlook to your children in ANY way, shape, or form. You take so much to time to belittle those who are Christians, I just can't believe that you are going the "extra mile" to not pass that on to your kids.

Honestly? No. I never have.

Again, it just doesnt come up. Unlike yours, our lives do not rotate around rituals, churches and prayers. Therefor, my "outlook" as you call it is never discussed. Perhaps when they are grown it will, but today, no.

Now it's your turn.

• Why do you feel the need to pray in public spaces as you have so defiantly said you would above? Why must it be public? Does your god require you to annoy people?
• How exactly does NOT having commandments in a taxpayer paid public space diminish your faith and church?
• Why must school be stopped in order to pray? Can you not pray at the breakfast table? What is the difference...I really want to know.

I look forward to your answers Danger Boy.

[beezer]

Sausage! I don't hate you...even though I think you worship fairy tales.

Well the fact that you consistently call us fairy tale worshippers says different. Maybe you don't hate us, but you do look down upon us. I don't think that's a healthy attitude to have about a group of people.

Sorry. Paying taxes does not entitle yours or any other religion to force your beliefs down my children's throats in public school or place religious artifacts at public courthouses.

It sure does. You may not like to hear this but My family & I have just as many rights as you and your family do. If you don't like the fact that my kids' teacher has them say the pledge of allegiance which includes the words "under God" in it then tough. I want that tradition upheld in the public classroom which my tax dollars support. Your views have no superiority to anyone else's just because you don't like the concept of God.

I should clarify that I don't want a specific religion taught in the classroom. The main purpose for my kids going to school is to learn to read & write fluently. I also hope they are good enough in math to surpass their old man! But if they want to pray for their food in a public school cafeteria they will do so with no interference from the ACLU or yourself. My boy plays little league and they pray before the game that nobody gets injured and all the kids have good sportsmanship. I guess that violates the separation of church and baseball field. Oh well. I also pray before I take off before each flight for a safe trip and God's protection for my passengers. I guess that's a violation of church & airplane. Oops!

It was "tradition" to keep blacks segregated and after many decades those "traditions" were abolished. Just because something might be construed as a tradition does not make it legal or just.

And it was a Christian minister, along with other Christians, who prayed and preached in public to help overturn that segregationist system. You may have heard of Martin Luther King, Jr.

lol..and what exactly would those rituals and fantasies be? Hmm?

I'll sort of have to take this one back because I don't know you personally. When I first moved here I went through an orientation process to fly for American Airlines. I moved into our house 2 weeks before my wife & kids arrived and basically went to endless human resources meetings. What was I going to do before my first flight? It was boring.

I checked out the local paper and there was an ad for an atheist church get-together over near Denton. I decided, what the heck I'll check this out. I was curious. I went in and the people (almost all men) were pretty nice to me. I never said anything about being a Christian because I wanted to observe them as they truly are. So they began the meeting and about 10 minutes into it they were calling Christians "fascist" this & "fascist" that. They talked about defeating the Christians. They also wanted Darwin Day to be recognized within the local school district. At the end they actually got in a circle, held hands, and closed their eyes (it was probably only 5 minutes but it felt longer. I felt awkward). I guess it was praying! Nobody said anything. After it was over I asked one guy what that was and he said they were "joining in one mind". ROFL.

So I guess this has been my experience with atheist rituals. If you don't participate in them then I do take that part back.

This is where you just don't get it. Nobody is suppressing your religious beliefs. You can pray for HOURS at church, perform your rituals at home for days or WEEKS, do ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO in church or home. Nobody will stop you! But for some reason, christians feel this isn't enough and they must force their beliefs in public above everyone else's religion (or lack thereof) and force everyone else to play along and watch. Nobody is suppressing or taking away anything except your wanton public bullshit.

A case in point is the whole "prayer before the high school football game" debate. You can pray for hours at church or home before the game. I seriously doubt your gods require all prayers to be immediately before the kickoff in order to be valid. You can even pray silently IN THE STANDS through the entire game if you want! Nobody will stop you! But NO. It MUST be at the game, on the field, on the PA before the kickoff in front of everyone! It must be a grand public display and waste of every non-christians time. "Don't listen" you say! Would you gladly sit by when the satanists give a little prayer? Just "don't listen" right? No way. Christians would be the FIRST to go ballistic if Witches, Muslims, Satanists wanted to enforce prayer before every high school football game and they would cry foul at another bullshit "attack on their beliefs".

I highly doubt you would stop at allowing us to pray in the privacy of our own homes and churches. That is the history of atheistic regimes. You start with saying you only want to prohibit part of a religious right, but then you don't stop. You continue to push for further limitations and try to intimidate & suppress those who won't obey the restrictions.

I remember when my coach would pray before the game. One person...let me say this again...ONE person complained and then it ruined it for everyone else. I doubt there were many Christians on my team but they had no problem with someone praying, "Lord please help us to do our best". So the atheists in our state said, "oh well as long as it's student initiated prayer then that's ok". After I graduated I remember the same group saying that this same student initiated prayer was no longer constitutional. Atheists never stop restricting religious freedoms. They are patient, well organized, and pretty smart at knowing how far they can push before people push back. They will stop, regroup, and wait for another opportunity to push the line farther until they achieve their ultimate goal of a Godless society. That is their history.