Deathwind wrote:health care = doctors
doctors = workers
and nurses, laboratory personnel, even janitors and administrators, but yes.. all work and generally hard.
Deathwind wrote:you = work at a mill (for arguements sake) = free grain for all?? = does not compute
health care = free? = does not compute
Here is where your logic fails, utterly.
This is not in any, way, shape or form about forcing doctors or anyone else to give care for free, though, in truth many hospitals and doctors DO, right now, because of the way our system is structured.
That structure means that poor people, no matter why they are poor, get healthcare for free. Kids and sseniors are often eligable for either free or reduced-fee type insurance, including Medicare (note, Medicare is a PAID program... those seniors paid into it for years, some still pay premiums, it is not free).
Working people depend on employers to obtain group rates. They generally have no choice or, (if they work for a very large company) might have limited choice of policies. The purchaser of this insurance is NOT the user, so normal market principles don't apply. The employer doesn't really care about the quality of insurance. Rather, they do, in a personnal sense, but in a business sense often feel they cannot worry about it. They obey the law and provide what they have to provide. In general, higher wage and union workers get good insurance just like they get decent pay. Lower wage workers often do not. (it depends on the grace of the employer, not how hard they work or the choices they want to make regarding health insurance). Many of those low-wage workers have kids who would qualify for reduced fee programs like CHIP, but those programs are only open to those with no insurance. So, ironically enough, many of those workers are worse off because their employer is "gracious enough" to provide insurance with things like a $2000 deductable (I am quoting the most common policy for factory workers in my area, not talking esoterically here)... bad enough, but when you realize that none of the "co-payments", ($35 for a basic office visit, $95 at last check for emergency room visits, etc...etc.) count toward that $2000 AND that once that cap is met, the coverage goes to only 80% coverage. Then, you realize that this "health care coverage" really is something folks can only use if they absolutely must. AND, then they are likely to still wind up going broke, losing their homes, etc. My family came very, very close to having that happen when my youngest son got ill.
Worse, those poor insurance coverage plans also cut what they allow doctors to be paid. So, it;s bad all around. Of course, its "perfectly OK" for that same company to be among the most profitable of insurance companies, actually, the most profitable of companies in the world?
It gets worse yet.
See, it doesn't really matter how much or how long you pay into that insurance. It used to be if you lost your job, you were utterly out of luck. Then COBRA rules came in, saying that people had to be offered insurance at full price once jobs are lost. EXCEPT.. those "full payments" are very high. Keeping just minimal coverage for my family was over $1300 a month. Even when fully employed, that would have been beyond our means, never mind while on unemployment. OH, and though it cannot be proven, there is a very, very strong likelihood that our pre-existing conditions were part of why my husband was let go.
So, what happens? My kids are covered by Medicaid, because they have disabilities. Before, the insurance company paid most and the Medicaid just paid co-pays, plus eye and dental. Now, taxpayers pay the whole bill. (nice trick of the insurance companies, isn't that). Of course, the insurance company did not really and truly pay all of what they should have. Were it just me, I would be fighting each and every charge for the months (no exaggeration, been down this road before) it gets to get the insurance companies to just admit coverage. In this case, they first claim that we had the date wrong and our insurance expired a month before it did. Got that fixed, now they claim that an emergency room visit was "not an emergency" (though our doctor told us to go there), etc, etc. It's all a game. The insurance company knows most people won't or cannot fight. In this case, its worse because its tax payers who foot the extra bill. I have still filed complaints (with the state), but the reality is that taxpayers will likely wind up paying (mostly because it costs more to fight and because insurance companies have a lock on doing what they will). It's not "technically" fraud. The charges were incurred. Its just that the insurance company is incredibly picky about paying.
A NEW law, under healthcare reform means my kids, at least, will be covered regardless. The insurance company cannot deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.
BUT, that is just our kids. My husband and I may be outright denied, due to pre-existing conditions. Or, we may get "covered", but only for completely new conditions. We will likely get covered if we get in a car accident or contract some new, previously unknown disease, maybe if I get an appendicitis attack I might get covered. Anything for which we have EVER received treatment previosly.. the insurance company can deny. In fact, if we should fail to remember any little detail in our entire health history, then the insurance company can deny us coverage. Of course, the worst part is that insurance companies don't even have to notify you of this in advance. They can collect their premiums, let you think you are covered and then, poof, when you really, really need it.. when you are in the hospital with a life-threatening illness like a heart condition or get diagnosed with cancer, etc. etc .. THAT is when you will find "oops, sorry, we are not going to cover you...". To add injury to injury, they may not even have to refund the fees you paid, both becuase its likely other family members are still, technically covered AND because, well, "it's your own fault".
Think I exaggerate or just pick out a few extreme cases? Think again!
AND, it gets even worse. See, health insurers each collect their own, independent data on what they consider "cost effective" care. None of that data is shared. Each works out their own formula. It is incredibly wasteful. I have heard Ralph Nadar give estimates that 8 out of 10 people in a doctors office are now employed solely to deal with insurance companies.
Deathwind wrote:Healthcare and health insurance should remain a private business.
This is NOT about healthcare. It is about health
insurance.
Furthermore, privatization only works when you have a real market. For many reasons, healthcare is not a real market. It is not a market because people cannot refuse health care, not if they wish to live. Its not a market because most people don't get to shop for their insurance. Its not a market because there is absolutely no incentive on insurers to truly promote a better healthcare system for all. In fact, they benefit most highly by covering only the already healthy, taking very small steps (like diet counseling) to keep healthy people fully healthy longer and then simply dropping anyone who gets seriously ill (with a few exceptions to give the impression they are actually "covering people").
