crispybits wrote:Ah right OK, so God deliberately confuses and blurs his message by dressing it up in stories so vague that only those who already believe will understand. Gotcha.
Doesn't really help the case Ray is trying to make about him not being a scumbag right now but that's not your concern. After all an all powerful, all knowing God would obviously send a clear message, not one that can only be properly contextualised by those that already believe. (read the full chapters around those quotes if you want to see exactly what I am referencing, plus Isaiah 6:9-10 which is the biblical prophetic reasoning for the speaking in parable rather than in plain language and truth)
My point is that Jesus was not clearly teaching about hell in the sense that it is a place of torment for all of eternity. Which is what you seem to believe...
crispybits wrote:Viceroy, you probably missed my question before as there has been a lot of dicsuusion sicne, but Jesus quite clearly thinks that the fire and brimstone version of hell is what is real. Scroll back a page or two and you'll see his direct quotes. So should I believe your "eternal nothing" over his "eternal fire" version, and if so why?
"Eternal Fire" is not a term used by Jesus Christ and certainly not "His" teaching in the sense of a literal place of torment. There is a phrase used that the fires of hell can not be quenched or are unquenchable but the simple explanation to that is that they can not be put out. There is simply no fire extinguisher large enough to put out the fire that God will create to destroy the wicked, sin and death. It all goes into the fires for eternal destruction never to come back again after that. But the fire itself eventually does die out.
And the fires, while no man or demon or even angels of God can put out those flames, they are not themselves literally eternal flames that burn on for ever. After all, Sodom and Gomorah were destroyed with "Eternal Fire" But I don't think that anyone would argue that Sodom and Gomorah are still burning today? No; The meaning of the term "Eternal Fire" is in fact a way to express the effect of that Fire. Sodom and Gomorah were destroyed by "Eternal Fires" and never rose again. Unlike many cities of those regions when they were destroyed were simply built again on top of the ashes. But the effects of "Eternal Fires" is that what ever is destroyed by them are destroyed for ever and for good. Never to be seen again.
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of "
eternal fire."
-Jude 1:7
