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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:09 pm

spurgistan wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:Anarchy is no longer possible post-Agricultural Revolution.


You are entering the Zapatista Rebel Territory!
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To the best of my reasonable amount of knowledge on EZLN, they have an organized central authority that governs their decisions (the "Buen Gobierno" referred to in the sign above) Does the fact that no other government recognizes this authority make it anarchy? I don't think that Zapatistas would call it that.

/edited for rogue quotation mark


LOL Poinexter, not quite. Keep tryin, bra.

Anarchy - despite the popularly cartoonish misconeception fronted by State-Worshipers of it being synonymous with chaos - is the minimization of centralization, vertical organization and coercive institutions. The juntas are decentralized, horizontally organized and non-coercive.
Last edited by saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:10 pm

Aradhus wrote:
We have governments.


And AIDS.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby Aradhus on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:13 pm

We made government, its our idea. If its not currently efficient, and fucking us in the ass, that's largely our fault.
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:18 pm

Aradhus wrote:We made government, its our idea.


you're mistaken, it wasn't my idea - just checked my diary to be sure
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby Aradhus on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:32 pm

you sure? I coulda swore I saw you hovering in the bushes around its inception.

I meant we made government for the betterment of our lives, as opposed to Aids which is just a pain in the ass.
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:48 pm

Aradhus wrote:I meant we made government


again, you're mistaken; I wasn't involved in making government
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:56 pm

Aradhus wrote:I wasn't involved in making aids.


never said you were, bra

but congrats, tho
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby Aradhus on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:07 pm

Thanks. I'm quite proud of my lack of involvement in that particular endeavor.

Anyway, I believe you were saying something about having no responsibility for government, cus we got aids, bra.

Its a convincing argument, but I'll pass, thanks.
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:17 pm

Aradhus wrote:Anyway, I believe you were saying something about having no responsibility for government, cus we got aids


nope

stay in school, bro
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby Aradhus on Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:55 pm

Oooooooooooooh, zinga!

However do you come up with these piercing responses..

Because you didn't create government you are claiming that you have no responsibility for how it is now.

You brought up Aids. Not my fault it wasn't funny.
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:10 pm

Aradhus wrote:Oooooooooooooh, zinga!

However do you come up with these piercing responses..

Because you didn't create government you are claiming that you have no responsibility for how it is now.

You brought up Aids. Not my fault it wasn't funny.


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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby Aradhus on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 am

Hmm, hmm. What is that, an overhead projector? hmm

At no point in this little exchange have I claimed that what I said went over your head. So I am left to conclude that the crux of this little parapraxis is that you are projecting onto me that this conversation went over your head. In way of, an overhead projector.

Hmm
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Re: ObamaCare: Ruled Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:30 am

Aradhus wrote:jibber jibber,
jabber jabber,
jibber,
jabber,
jibber,
jabber

words words,
many words,
filling up the screen with words


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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:11 pm

Vote to repeal Obamacare next wednesday. I know the Senate won't likely pass it, and Obama would veto it anyways, but ya never know. I think there might be a few surprises in the Senate.
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:44 pm

The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!

British Prime Minister David Cameron says he plans to open up the National Health Service to competition.

Cameron's plans to shake up Britain’s universal health care system-- known as NHS -- will transfer much decision making authority to general practitioners, and thus bypassing administrators to cut out bureaucracy.

ā€œWe need modernization on both sides of the equation," he said in a major speech defending public sector reforms. "Modernization to do something about the demand for public health service, and modernization to make the supply of health care more efficient, which is about opening up the system, making it more competitive, cutting out waste and bureaucracy.ā€

According to Cameron, it’s not, in these times of austerity, that ā€œwe can’t afford to modernize. It’s that we can’t afford not to modernize.ā€

Skeptics are already accusing him of taking a ā€œwrecking ballā€ to one of the finest institutions in the country. Some doctors, nurses and union leaders wrote a letter to the editor of the London Times. Among the concerns expressed, was that bringing in competition could mean bringing down quality, because, doctors would, presumably, go for the cheapest service options in order to save money.

Gail Cartmail, assistant general secretary of Unite, Britain's largest union doesn't agree with the reform.

ā€œA great number of people are telling us that they think these untested, expensive health care reforms are very unwise and very, very risky,ā€ said Cartmail.

But in another editorial in the Times of London, Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said that is "a myth that our plans have come out of the blue."

"They are in fact a logical evolution of tried and tested policies initiated by governments of all parties over the past two decades,ā€ he wrote.

The NHS has set a target of cutting $31 billion from its budget over the next few years.

Already, certain types of operations—hernia, hip replacement, and tonsils, to name a few -- are being downgraded to ā€œelectiveā€ surgeries.

John Black, the president of the Royal College of Surgeons cautioned that saving comes with costs.

"By reducing elective surgery, you can immediately save money, but at the cost of pain, reduced quality of life, and deterioration of health.ā€

Cameron said the centerpiece of his government’s policy is upgrading and modernizing all public services to keep Britain competitive.

He points to where it is falling behind.

ā€œIn Shanghai, the average child is two years ahead of a child here. In Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Austria, or, interestingly, Poland, you are les likely to die once admitted into hospital after a heart attack than you are in the U.K.ā€

The government’s flagship health and social care bill will be published Wednesday.


Read more: http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2011 ... z1BLaAEi8t

By the way, notice how simple procedures in the US such as hernia, hip replacement, and tonsils are now elective surgeries in the UK? That's what we WILL get in the US when they have to cut expenses.
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby notyou2 on Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:50 pm

I wonder if I keep going NAH NAH NAH maybe this will all go away.
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby GreecePwns on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:17 pm

Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!
Please explain the difference between the health care system resulting in the yellow line on this graph and those that result in the others.

Image
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:20 pm

GreecePwns wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!
Please explain the difference between the health care system resulting in the yellow line on this graph and those that result in the others.

Image


Greed, for more profits as well as for free health care, abuse of the system, by the consumers and the providers, as well as insurance companies, malpractice abuse, malpractice insurance, non competition/lack of free market principles, severe gov't intervention, Availability, (where ever the money is, the prices rise. See "gold rush economies")I could go on
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby GreecePwns on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:30 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!
Please explain the difference between the health care system resulting in the yellow line on this graph and those that result in the others.

Image


Greed, for more profits as well as for free health care, abuse of the system, by the consumers and the providers, as well as insurance companies, malpractice abuse, malpractice insurance, non competition/lack of free market principles, severe gov't intervention, Availability, (where ever the money is, the prices rise. See "gold rush economies")I could go on
And none of that exists in other nations - where the opportunity to abuse the system is greater, where the opportunity to sue for malpractice is larger, and where government intervention and lack of competition is significantly more, there are better results.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Aradhus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:44 pm

Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!


It is prudent to judge actions on results, not assumptions.
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:40 pm

Aradhus wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!


It is prudent to judge actions on results, not assumptions.


I am looking across the pond and holding up the results, compared to what I've heard a million times over the last 10 years. "United Kingdom has free health care! Most of Europe does to! America is the only industrialized....blah blah blah"

Yeah, it's so great that it's already being dismantled. Let me guess, now the fight is between people who can't comprehend cost and people who want to kill your grandma and take away her free shit, right?
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:41 pm

GreecePwns wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!
Please explain the difference between the health care system resulting in the yellow line on this graph and those that result in the others.

Image


Easy: The US has the most innovative and effective care in the world, especially when it comes to specialized treatments. Socialized systems might work better for routine care for all people, but no other country in the world can match the specialized practices we have here in the US. That's why people come TO the US for treatments rather than go to other countries.

Aradhus wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!


It is prudent to judge actions on results, not assumptions.


So the results are that relatively simple procedures for non-life threatening issues are too expensive for socialized medicine, so the government has to cut them and force the "insured" to live their lives with more pain and suffering that could cause other long-term issues. Sounds great!
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby comic boy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:53 pm

Night Strike wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!
Please explain the difference between the health care system resulting in the yellow line on this graph and those that result in the others.

Image


Easy: The US has the most innovative and effective care in the world, especially when it comes to specialized treatments. Socialized systems might work better for routine care for all people, but no other country in the world can match the specialized practices we have here in the US. That's why people come TO the US for treatments rather than go to other countries.

Aradhus wrote:
Night Strike wrote:The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!


It is prudent to judge actions on results, not assumptions.


So the results are that relatively simple procedures for non-life threatening issues are too expensive for socialized medicine, so the government has to cut them and force the "insured" to live their lives with more pain and suffering that could cause other long-term issues. Sounds great!


Except that millions in the UK have additional private medical insurance so dont rely purely on the NHS.
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Re: Repealing ObamaCare: Jan. 12th

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:01 pm

Plus, it reduces choice and freedoms that we do have now. I don't even want to think about how available anyones medical records are going to be when the Gov't can't even keep classified shit from a punk ass cadet er he was probably a freemium cook.

Also, we have the choice to go and get any exam we feel we might need, and there is nobody saying we don't need this yet, or the previous results aren't conclusive enough to justify running another test. The price is a lot, but health care is important, and in a free market, it probably shouldn't be cheap, unless doctors want to make as much as janitors do, which furthers the point about quality. The less incentive there is to be a doctor, the less people are going to want to become a doctor, or even a better doctor than others at that...
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