Wisconsin State Employees & Budget Cuts

[PLAYER57832]

I just think circumstances conspired to make him much less effective than he could have been.

and I think circumstances conspired to ensure Reagan got credit for a lot of what Carter actually did. However, it is an old argument and not a winnable one (at least not in the short term). Its purely my opinion.

[PLAYER57832]

To me, though, it's the level of access that an absurdly rich non-constituent can have, and the amount of influence on legislation that money affords. Who does Governor Walker pick up the phones for? I may be wrong here, but the sheer power money has on creating policy seems to have increased accordingly as the overall share of wealth the rich controls has grown.

I am not sure this is anything new. However, in the past politicians have held up more of a pretense of listening to the "average folk". Now, most don't even bother.

Note that the hew and cry is mostly about the guy impersonating a rich donor, and hardly anybody worries that the governor would listen in the first place.

Oh, and did anyone note the real life connections between the two?

[Symmetry]

Anybody listened to the fake Koch call to Walker yet?

Hadn't heard about it, actually. Seems like a pretty disgusting thing to do (though sadly, not surprising).

Why is that? I haven't actually listened to it, and from what I've heard, most of what Walker said can be explained as sucking up to a ungodly rich donor - although a Madison police chief disagrees with me, there. To me, though, it's the level of access that an absurdly rich non-constituent can have, and the amount of influence on legislation that money affords. Who does Governor Walker pick up the phones for? I may be wrong here, but the sheer power money has on creating policy seems to have increased accordingly as the overall share of wealth the rich controls has grown.

Yeah- that was certainly one of the more troubling aspects of the whole thing. I would expect many Dems, and politicians in general do the same, if not all of them. Still, it's weird to be able to hear a guy who's been portraying himself as a kind of fiscal crusader bend over for Koch.

And, of course, the name is pronounced "COKE".

[PLAYER57832]

Still, it's weird to be able to hear a guy who's been portraying himself as a kind of fiscal crusader bend over for Koch.

And, of course, the name is pronounced "COKE".

Koch is a big proponent of fiscal conservatives.

[Phatscotty]

Still, it's weird to be able to hear a guy who's been portraying himself as a kind of fiscal crusader bend over for Koch.

And, of course, the name is pronounced "COKE".

Koch employs thousands of WI residents, not only generating good paying jobs, but also a serious chunk of tax dollars.

More Koch please. Oh, and yes, TAKE HIS PHONE CALL! Even is the person on the other line is lying and playing dirty and trying to drag as much dirt out as possible..."It doesn't matter! he picked up the phone!!!!"

Even with all the pure BS, Walker still kept his integrity, I didn't hear any new information revealed, nothing comes from this except for an opportunity to twist someones words and speculate on possibilities of that those twists might mean.

The left REALLY needs to get out of the gutter. We need more good democrats, and the way the left has been playing democrats might just run away permanently.

[Phatscotty]

if you were talking about someone specific, than go right ahead and identify who you are talking about, and then you can relieve me of my tap-dancing punishment

"Birth certificate!" comes to mind.

Okay, now can you take the original assertion, and compare it to this one fore me? And then we can get to business.

[Symmetry]

Still, it's weird to be able to hear a guy who's been portraying himself as a kind of fiscal crusader bend over for Koch.

And, of course, the name is pronounced "COKE".

Koch employs thousands of WI residents, not only generating good paying jobs, but also a serious chunk of tax dollars.

More Koch please. Oh, and yes, TAKE HIS PHONE CALL! Even is the person on the other line is lying and playing dirty and trying to drag as much dirt out as possible..."It doesn't matter! he picked up the phone!!!!"

Even with all the pure BS, Walker still kept his integrity, I didn't hear any new information revealed, nothing comes from this except for an opportunity to twist someones words and speculate on possibilities of that those twists might mean.

The left REALLY needs to get out of the gutter. We need more good democrats, and the way the left has been playing democrats might just run away permanently.

Impressive chutzpah. Sherrod, ACORN, Planned Parenthood- just a few cases where the right did something similar. Gutter politics looks a lot to me like the left aping the tactics of the right here.

[Phatscotty]

Still, it's weird to be able to hear a guy who's been portraying himself as a kind of fiscal crusader bend over for Koch.

And, of course, the name is pronounced "COKE".

Koch employs thousands of WI residents, not only generating good paying jobs, but also a serious chunk of tax dollars.

More Koch please. Oh, and yes, TAKE HIS PHONE CALL! Even is the person on the other line is lying and playing dirty and trying to drag as much dirt out as possible..."It doesn't matter! he picked up the phone!!!!"

Even with all the pure BS, Walker still kept his integrity, I didn't hear any new information revealed, nothing comes from this except for an opportunity to twist someones words and speculate on possibilities of that those twists might mean.

The left REALLY needs to get out of the gutter. We need more good democrats, and the way the left has been playing democrats might just run away permanently.

Impressive chutzpah. Sherrod, ACORN, Planned Parenthood- just a few cases where the right did something similar. Gutter politics looks a lot to me like the left aping the tactics of the right here.

Yes I see your comparative, but with one major difference.

The aspiring journalist did not fail in exposing gross aiding and abetting a crime and major ethics violations.
The prank caller did fail. I think he should be embarrassed that he even released it in the first place. It's worthless.

[Symmetry]

Still, it's weird to be able to hear a guy who's been portraying himself as a kind of fiscal crusader bend over for Koch.

And, of course, the name is pronounced "COKE".

Koch employs thousands of WI residents, not only generating good paying jobs, but also a serious chunk of tax dollars.

More Koch please. Oh, and yes, TAKE HIS PHONE CALL! Even is the person on the other line is lying and playing dirty and trying to drag as much dirt out as possible..."It doesn't matter! he picked up the phone!!!!"

Even with all the pure BS, Walker still kept his integrity, I didn't hear any new information revealed, nothing comes from this except for an opportunity to twist someones words and speculate on possibilities of that those twists might mean.

The left REALLY needs to get out of the gutter. We need more good democrats, and the way the left has been playing democrats might just run away permanently.

Impressive chutzpah. Sherrod, ACORN, Planned Parenthood- just a few cases where the right did something similar. Gutter politics looks a lot to me like the left aping the tactics of the right here.

Yes I see your comparative, but with one major difference.

The aspiring journalist did not fail in exposing gross aiding and abetting a crime and major ethics violations.
The prank caller did fail. I think he should be embarrassed that he even released it in the first place. It's worthless.

Which aspiring journalist? The ACORN guy? I'm pretty sure he was the only one convicted of a crime for attempting something similar.

And I'm pretty sure non of those cases resulted in a crime being exposed, but you know the record as well as I do.

[Phatscotty]

yeah you can focus on that part. You aren't referring to the other instance where he was charged, not at Acorn but for that Mckaskill senator and her phones. either way, those tapes got the Acorn funding pulled. The results speak.

His name is James O'keefe

[Symmetry]

yeah you can focus on that part. You aren't referring to the other instance where he was charged, not at Acorn but for that Mckaskill senator and her phones. either way, those tapes got the Acorn funding pulled. The results speak.

His name is James O'keefe

I was referring to that. And, yes, the results do speak, but they don't necessarily tell the truth, nor are they indicative of a crime having been committed. Walker has taken a hit over this call, but I don't think he's committed a crime. In fact he seems pretty reasonable. It does add fuel to the argument that he was dishonest about his original motives, and also to arguments that he's too closely tied to big business, however.

[Woodruff]

The left REALLY needs to get out of the gutter. We need more good democrats, and the way the left has been playing democrats might just run away permanently.

If only there were someplace worth running to...

[Woodruff]

if you were talking about someone specific, than go right ahead and identify who you are talking about, and then you can relieve me of my tap-dancing punishment

"Birth certificate!" comes to mind.

Okay, now can you take the original assertion, and compare it to this one fore me? And then we can get to business.

Interesting that you decided to cut it from our conversation only to ask for it...but here it is:
"Gosh, we've not heard about Republicans wanting to impeach anyone for ludicrous reason, have we now?"
And?

[PLAYER57832]

Democracy Now! did a bit on WI this evening. It is a VERY left wing show, too much for my tastes and so I rarely listen. Occasionally, though, its good to hear the far left perspective on things happening in the media.

I got a very different perspective on WI.

1. (this according to one of the senators), Gingrich got it wrong. The things the governor is doing were NOT talked about in his campaign.

2. The bill presented was supposed to have been a stop-gap spending bill, non-controversial, to fix budget problems. Debate was heavily curtailed, before most of the public had even had a chance to see the bill. Even so, advertising for it apparently was well underway -- even before the bill was completed.

3. It goes very much beyond even just busting unions. apparently (if the report was correct), the bill gives the governor almsot exclusive power to do many things ranging from dictating the salaries of both state and local government workers, to sell off public properties without any legislative approval and to approve various no bid contracts.

4. It guts Medicaid and various other programs they have for seniors, etc.

Overall, this bill is not about cutting budgets, it is about securing power for the governorship and little of that was discussed in his campaign.

[Juan_Bottom]

Is he a Neo-Con?

[Symmetry]

Is he a Neo-Con?

Isn't Neo-con a position regarding foreign policy? If so, I've got no idea what his views are there.

[Juan_Bottom]

Well, during Bush's years their main goal was to consolidate all of the power that they could possibly grab into the executive branch. Mainly this meant passing laws that gave the president powers that Bush never planned to use... they were being saved for a future president. It's where the term "imperial president" comes from. Neo-Cons want the Executive to have more control than congress.

[patches70]

Well, during Bush's years their main goal was to consolidate all of the power that they could possibly grab into the executive branch. Mainly this meant passing laws that gave the president powers that Bush never planned to use... they were being saved for a future president. It's where the term "imperial president" comes from. Neo-Cons want the Executive to have more control than congress.

Neo Cons believe the spread of liberalism through military action is the primary way of spreading democracy.

In economics, neo-cons are believers in Keynesian economics.
Neo-cons are the ones who believe "deficits don't matter".



Neo-cons are just another branch of progressive. The Gov of WI doesn't seem to fit the profile of the typical neo-con. But, we will see soon enough.

[Symmetry]

Well, during Bush's years their main goal was to consolidate all of the power that they could possibly grab into the executive branch. Mainly this meant passing laws that gave the president powers that Bush never planned to use... they were being saved for a future president. It's where the term "imperial president" comes from. Neo-Cons want the Executive to have more control than congress.

Ok- are you arguing that Walker is an "Imperial Governor" in the same mould?

[PopeBenXVI]

3. It goes very much beyond even just busting unions. apparently (if the report was correct), the bill gives the governor almsot exclusive power to do many things ranging from dictating the salaries of both state and local government workers, to sell off public properties without any legislative approval and to approve various no bid contracts.

Yeah, Cuz Doyle never did that..... repeatedly.

I am glad I had the distinct pleasure of voting for Walker as well as voting against Feingold. Hopefully the teachers getting fake sick notes will be fired for the taxpayer fraud they are guilty of. Maybe all the Democrats wont show up to vote in 2012 after taking their lead from our wonderful Dem WI senators. Recall them all and put someone there who will show up to do their job regardless of the outcome.

[Symmetry]

3. It goes very much beyond even just busting unions. apparently (if the report was correct), the bill gives the governor almsot exclusive power to do many things ranging from dictating the salaries of both state and local government workers, to sell off public properties without any legislative approval and to approve various no bid contracts.

Yeah, Cuz Doyle never did that..... repeatedly.

Wait- you want Walker to do that too?

[Juan_Bottom]

Well, during Bush's years their main goal was to consolidate all of the power that they could possibly grab into the executive branch. Mainly this meant passing laws that gave the president powers that Bush never planned to use... they were being saved for a future president. It's where the term "imperial president" comes from. Neo-Cons want the Executive to have more control than congress.

Ok- are you arguing that Walker is an "Imperial Governor" in the same mould?

No I was asking if he is. I haven't been following this since Wednesday, and it's getting more and more obvious that he's just after power for himself and his party. If he was smart, he would have taken the deal rather than let people take the time to examine the issue more closely.

[PopeBenXVI]

3. It goes very much beyond even just busting unions. apparently (if the report was correct), the bill gives the governor almsot exclusive power to do many things ranging from dictating the salaries of both state and local government workers, to sell off public properties without any legislative approval and to approve various no bid contracts.

Yeah, Cuz Doyle never did that..... repeatedly.

Wait- you want Walker to do that too?

No I don't and no one should. I was just stating that thats what Doyle did many times already and got lots of heat in the state from conservatives. Walker would not have to change anything if he really wanted to do that. He would not though because he is a true fiscal conservative and you get bids to save taxpayer money when you have that ideology.

[spurgistan]

Well, during Bush's years their main goal was to consolidate all of the power that they could possibly grab into the executive branch. Mainly this meant passing laws that gave the president powers that Bush never planned to use... they were being saved for a future president. It's where the term "imperial president" comes from. Neo-Cons want the Executive to have more control than congress.

Yeah, but neo-Conservative has a pretty set definition of those trying to re-establish international American military hegemony. Also, the term "Imperial Presidency" started with Nixon. Nixon wasn't a neo-con, as they didn't exist yet (we didn't have the whole 70's millitary shame thing until we lost Vietnam) I'm fine with calling Governor Walker any number of things (the amount of Imperial Walkers at the protests make my nerd senses tingle) but calling him a neo-con isn't correct unless he wants to spread Wisconsin's military influence beyond its borders.

[Woodruff]

Hopefully the teachers getting fake sick notes will be fired for the taxpayer fraud they are guilty of.

This sentence catches my eye, and confuses me a bit. Are WI teachers actually required to have a "sick note from a doctor" in order to use the sick days they're authorized under their contract?

That seems...odd, to say the least.