One of many problems with Evolution

[WILLIAMS5232]

Evolutionist always make this common....

.....

.....

.....cart before the horse.

The odds of forming via chance one protein is 1 in 2X10^150. Multiply that by the odds of 1,500 DNA sequence to form the one protein. Multiply those odds by 250-500 for each cell has that many proteins. One, if they are intellectually honest, sees the impossibilities of evolution.

so..... you're saying theres a chance......

[GoranZ]

So the idea that computer software demonstrates evolution is precisely the sort of blind illogical backwards thinking to authenticate evolution. For it is intelligence that designed the software.

Why are you talking about software development when you have not a slightest clue how that is being done? Your words sound like a words of an idiot for majority of software developers.

Evolutionist always make this common....

.....

.....

.....cart before the horse.

The odds of forming via chance one protein is 1 in 2X10^150. Multiply that by the odds of 1,500 DNA sequence to form the one protein. Multiply those odds by 250-500 for each cell has that many proteins. One, if they are intellectually honest, sees the impossibilities of evolution.

so..... you're saying theres a chance......

No he is saying that you can get DNA sequence from your very first try.
But what is also important he is also saying that although chance for DNA formation is very little that chance doesn't confirm existence of god.
So he can try to undermine our efforts to prove the evolution from the very beginning of DNA creation to now(no scientist is worrying about this since science is not about knowing but about discovering) but that will not help him in proving the existence of god.

Adaptation already has the information for adapting to external stimulus already in the DNA coding. There are limits to how far a creature can adapt, the limits of adaptation are set by the DNA code, if one gets too close to the edge of adaptability, they become sterile, still birth, premature death from disease, sickness, climate or predators.

Evolution requires NEW information in the DNA coding that was not there, to produce new function and new kind. The problem: Imbedded in the DNA code of creatures is to not select another creature that has inability to adapt to changes in external stimulus, to not select a mutated kind. So evolutionary theory that mutated DNA gets passed on, is not reality, for creatures select the strong, not the weak (and all mutations produced a loss of function, not an enhancement).

Adam and Eve and 4 human blood types. Go ahead I would like to hear your explanation

I guess you can not explain the existence of 4 blood types.

[DoomYoshi]

4 Blood Types is Easy. 2 people, each with 4 possible genes, but you only need 3 genes (A, B and O).

UC has not replied to a single thing I said, nor is he even making sense anymore.

I didn't say anything about natural selection. You did. Take your straw-man (just add water) argument-in-a-box and shove it up your ass. I have spent 40k and 5 years studying this. Answer at least one of my points.

[patrickaa317]

I have spent 40k and 5 years studying this.

</debate>

[WidowMakers]

The remoteness of evolution:
A protein is much simpler than the DNA code. and a protein has 20 amino acids in a chain of 150 sequenced. The odds of random unguided amino acids in a primordial soup of complex chemicals forming ONE single protein is 1 in 2X10exp150. That's 150 zeroes after the 2. Let that sink into your belief system, the odds of a protein forming via evolutionary process is 1 in 2X10exp150. And the DNA code is much more complex and goes on for billions of sequences. The odds are beyond possible. That's why the question at the start of the first post, reveals the lack of possibility of evolution, for the question was posed to one of the elite minds of evolution, "come up with one increase in the genetic code from mutations?", the response, "<crickets>".

The number you mention is joke compared to the number of stars in the universe... So I dont recommend using numbers to explain probability.

Not really. The number of stars in the universe is this (approx)
And so, if you multiply the number of stars in our galaxy by the number of galaxies in the Universe, you get approximately 10^24 stars
That’s a 1 followed by twenty-four zeros.
http://www.universetoday.com/102630/how-many-stars-are-there-in-the-universe/

Much much much smaller than odds of evolution of a protein molecule from unguided amino acids.
So while you may not like the probability numbers of the amino acid, they are larger than the number of stars.

So yes, it is "possible" but is it realistic. I mean really, do you believe that these proteins can into existence randomly, Much less DNA?

The numbers you are mentioning are for observable universe. In reality we have no idea how big the universe is. and we are adding zeroes over time

The ting is that if we find life on another world in the solar system then creationists are out for life.

And another question that no creationist can answer... Why Earth, whats so special about Earth?

Sorry for replying so late. I wanted to respond back more quickly but I had some things pop up.
I guess I am confused by a few things GoranZ. Maybe you can explain them to me.

ONE: Your first response to universalchiro’s statement of probability was that the number of the stars is much larger than the 2x10exp150. I then posted a reply to you about how that was an incorrect statement. Based on what we know now, the number of stars is VASTLY smaller than the number universalchiro posted. Plus, we do use numbers to explain probability. I am confused by this statement as well.
Why did you not look up the number of stars to actually see if it supported your argument before posting?

TWO: Your second response was not to discuss your initial statement and clarify itbut to actually undermine it by saying that no one really knows. Well if you really believe that no one knows the number of stars and we are constantly adding to that number as the observable universe gets bigger, then why would you use them as a point in your first reply? It does not make sense to argue a point by saying X>Y, then when that is shown to be incorrect say, “well we don’t really know the value of X”. So we may be adding zeros over time. I agree we will. But we would need to add over 125 zeros. Not 125 times bigger 10^125 times bigger.
So, why did you counter your initial point by saying that no one knows the number of stars.

THREE: What does the number of stars have to do with the probability of a protein forming anyway? I initially replied to you to show how your protein/star number statement was incorrect, but I was not commenting on why you chose it.
The probability of flipping heads 100 times in a row is 1 in 1267650600228229401496703205376 or 7.89*10^31. That is a big number too. But it has nothing to do with the number of stars.
Could you please inform me why the number of stars is relevant to protein formation?

FOUR: You then said that if we (humans) find life on another world then creationists are out for life. I guess I am confused about this statement. A creationist (young or old universe) believe God created everything. So if we find life on another planet that does not count out creation. God could have created life someplace else as well. The statement you made has nothing to do with the topic at hand which is naturalistic evolution.
Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

FIFTH: Finally you make a HUGE statement that you have a question that NO creationist can answer…”What is so special about earth?” Well it seems to me that that is one of the primary answers that creationists have. The reason that earth is so special is that God created it that way. Now you can believe that or not, that is OK. But to say that no creationist can explain why earth is special is to basically ignore the foundations of many of the claims they make. God is real, He created the universe, He made a place for man to be and have a relationship with him and that place is earth. That is what makes earth special.

Even though you might not believe, can you see why earth woudl be a special place if it was made by God for humans? (i.e. what creationists (young and old) say is the case

Thanks
WM

[GoranZ]

4 Blood Types is Easy. 2 people, each with 4 possible genes, but you only need 3 genes (A, B and O).

For the evolutionist maybe... but for Creationist its different story

Sorry for replying so late. I wanted to respond back more quickly but I had some things pop up.
I guess I am confused by a few things GoranZ. Maybe you can explain them to me.

ONE: Your first response to universalchiro’s statement of probability was that the number of the stars is much larger than the 2x10exp150. I then posted a reply to you about how that was an incorrect statement. Based on what we know now, the number of stars is VASTLY smaller than the number universalchiro posted. Plus, we do use numbers to explain probability. I am confused by this statement as well.
Why did you not look up the number of stars to actually see if it supported your argument before posting?

TWO: Your second response was not to discuss your initial statement and clarify itbut to actually undermine it by saying that no one really knows. Well if you really believe that no one knows the number of stars and we are constantly adding to that number as the observable universe gets bigger, then why would you use them as a point in your first reply? It does not make sense to argue a point by saying X>Y, then when that is shown to be incorrect say, “well we don’t really know the value of X”. So we may be adding zeros over time. I agree we will. But we would need to add over 125 zeros. Not 125 times bigger 10^125 times bigger.
So, why did you counter your initial point by saying that no one knows the number of stars.

I didn't check the number of stars in the observable universe since I dont have to... The number of discovered stars is growing at huge speed. For example 500 years ago, when your creationist were ruling Europe the number of stars was tiny fraction of what it is today. And on top of everything the number you found is from what we can see this moment in our observable universe, but stars form and disappear all the time. So my number will always grow while your number is constant. So in reality you guys can be behind 125 zeroes atm... If I can not prove that it doesn't mean that I'm wrong, you also cant dispute what I said also.

THREE: What does the number of stars have to do with the probability of a protein forming anyway? I initially replied to you to show how your protein/star number statement was incorrect, but I was not commenting on why you chose it.
The probability of flipping heads 100 times in a row is 1 in 1267650600228229401496703205376 or 7.89*10^31. That is a big number too. But it has nothing to do with the number of stars.
Could you please inform me why the number of stars is relevant to protein formation?

More stars=more worlds=more chances for life to form on multiple locations.

FOUR: You then said that if we (humans) find life on another world then creationists are out for life. I guess I am confused about this statement. A creationist (young or old universe) believe God created everything. So if we find life on another planet that does not count out creation. God could have created life someplace else as well. The statement you made has nothing to do with the topic at hand which is naturalistic evolution.

You are confused about a lot of things... You(and other creationist) believe, believing is not knowing. You guys know nothing. Evolutionist dont know everything but they discover things all the time.
BTW if 10 people believe that you are are a pig does that make you a pig?

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

FIFTH: Finally you make a HUGE statement that you have a question that NO creationist can answer…”What is so special about earth?” Well it seems to me that that is one of the primary answers that creationists have. The reason that earth is so special is that God created it that way. Now you can believe that or not, that is OK. But to say that no creationist can explain why earth is special is to basically ignore the foundations of many of the claims they make.

The problem is that I dont find Earth special In some future we could find many planets like earth, maybe even unrecognizably similar.

God is real, He created the universe, He made a place for man to be and have a relationship with him and that place is earth. That is what makes earth special.

A lie can not become truth regardless how many times you tell it... And what you told previously is a lie, every word of it.

Even though you might not believe, can you see why earth woudl be a special place if it was made by God for humans? (i.e. what creationists (young and old) say is the case

I know that Earth was not created by God

[patrickaa317]

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

Really, comparing Creationists to Nazis? I don't know what I believe as far as creationism vs intelligent design vs evolution vs whatever else but I do not believe that the Torah, nor the Bible, nor the Quran ever say that there are no such things as aliens and if there were, that the entire book would be false.

[DoomYoshi]

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

Really, comparing Creationists to Nazis? I don't know what I believe as far as creationism vs intelligent design vs evolution vs whatever else but I do not believe that the Torah, nor the Bible, nor the Quran ever say that there are no such things as aliens and if there were, that the entire book would be false.

Creationists are fr worse than Nazis. Creationism was started by Satan, who wanted to tear down Christianity, so he started a cult that calls themselves "Christians" in order to dissuade others from a higher calling.

They are a Christian hate group pure and simple.

[WidowMakers]

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

Really, comparing Creationists to Nazis? I don't know what I believe as far as creationism vs intelligent design vs evolution vs whatever else but I do not believe that the Torah, nor the Bible, nor the Quran ever say that there are no such things as aliens and if there were, that the entire book would be false.

Creationists are fr worse than Nazis. Creationism was started by Satan, who wanted to tear down Christianity, so he started a cult that calls themselves "Christians" in order to dissuade others from a higher calling.

They are a Christian hate group pure and simple.

Hey? Why did you change the subject?
Why instead of addressing the issue (whether evolution actually has any scientific validity) did you decided to call names?
We may not see eye to eye on some topics but have I called you names?
Have I compared you or people with your beliefs to Nazis or suggested that Satan started your ideas.
If you or others don't want to discuss the topic then fine, don't post.
But please stick to what the subject is.

The original post was that there is no evidence or naturalistic way that evolution, no matter the time given, has the ability to create the life we see today.
There are too many things inside even the simplest life form to haev happened by chance due to natural selection and random mutations.
Too many interdependent machines inside cells that only serve a purpose when used together with other parts.

-Please explain how DNA came to be.
-Please explain how a cell with all its required parts, all happened at once.
-And if you claim it did not happen all at once, which functional parts were not needed and why?

Evolutionists say it just happened because we hare here today so except it.
I say prove out your theory. Explain to me the things above.

Designed things require a designer. There is too much design in nature an life to be from nothing.
Humans are looking for life on other planets or galaxies (SETI)
We are seeking radio waves that carry prime numbers or recognizable patterns.
We feel that if we can get a cler signal of those, we will have found other life. Why?
Because organized information is a sign of intelligence and creative beings.
If radio waves from space with prime numbers woudl lead us to believe that intelligence is out there in
the universe (besides us) ,then why do you ignore the information of billions of coded DNA strands and say it happens by chance?

Why does a simple organized radio wave, a scratching on a cave wall of an animal, the words "Hello" written in the sand on a beach signify to all of you INTELLIGENCE.
But inside a human cell (each one) contains the genetic code of each person (which is different) that drives the way our bodies do so many vastly difference and complex functions happen randomly.

I (an many others) are claiming that life and how it works, is a sign of an intelligent designer. Information points to a consciousnesses.
You (and many others) just claim we are blinded or stupid or Nazi, etc,etc etc. Not much of a supportive case for your viewpoint.
Can you explain the challenges put forth above?

If you want to disprove an idea you need to challenge or talk about the idea and its merits/faults not the believer of the idea.
The minute you switch discussion to the person who holds that idea, you change the subject.

Ridicule is not an argument!

Thanks


P.S. GoranZ I will reply to your reply of my reply tomorrow for it is getting late.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

Really, comparing Creationists to Nazis? I don't know what I believe as far as creationism vs intelligent design vs evolution vs whatever else but I do not believe that the Torah, nor the Bible, nor the Quran ever say that there are no such things as aliens and if there were, that the entire book would be false.

Creationists are fr worse than Nazis. Creationism was started by Satan, who wanted to tear down Christianity, so he started a cult that calls themselves "Christians" in order to dissuade others from a higher calling.

They are a Christian hate group pure and simple.

Hey? Why did you change the subject?
Why instead of addressing the issue (whether evolution actually has any scientific validity) did you decided to call names?
We may not see eye to eye on some topics but have I called you names?
Have I compared you or people with your beliefs to Nazis or suggested that Satan started your ideas.
If you or others don't want to discuss the topic then fine, don't post.
But please stick to what the subject is.

The original post was that there is no evidence or naturalistic way that evolution, no matter the time given, has the ability to create the life we see today.
There are too many things inside even the simplest life form to haev happened by chance due to natural selection and random mutations.
Too many interdependent machines inside cells that only serve a purpose when used together with other parts.

-Please explain how DNA came to be.
-Please explain how a cell with all its required parts, all happened at once.
-And if you claim it did not happen all at once, which functional parts were not needed and why?

Evolutionists say it just happened because we hare here today so except it.
I say prove out your theory. Explain to me the things above.

Designed things require a designer. There is too much design in nature an life to be from nothing.
Humans are looking for life on other planets or galaxies (SETI)
We are seeking radio waves that carry prime numbers or recognizable patterns.
We feel that if we can get a cler signal of those, we will have found other life. Why?
Because organized information is a sign of intelligence and creative beings.
If radio waves from space with prime numbers woudl lead us to believe that intelligence is out there in
the universe (besides us) ,then why do you ignore the information of billions of coded DNA strands and say it happens by chance?

Why does a simple organized radio wave, a scratching on a cave wall of an animal, the words "Hello" written in the sand on a beach signify to all of you INTELLIGENCE.
But inside a human cell (each one) contains the genetic code of each person (which is different) that drives the way our bodies do so many vastly difference and complex functions happen randomly.

I (an many others) are claiming that life and how it works, is a sign of an intelligent designer. Information points to a consciousnesses.
You (and many others) just claim we are blinded or stupid or Nazi, etc,etc etc. Not much of a supportive case for your viewpoint.
Can you explain the challenges put forth above?

If you want to disprove an idea you need to challenge or talk about the idea and its merits/faults not the believer of the idea.
The minute you switch discussion to the person who holds that idea, you change the subject.

Ridicule is not an argument!

Thanks


P.S. GoranZ I will reply to your reply of my reply tomorrow for it is getting late.

He changed the subject because you clearly aren't listening and he probably doesn't wish to waste his time. There are hundreds of pages in this forum where myself and others with a scientific background have covered why evolution is a fact, and yet you creationists and I.D.ers refuse to acknowledge it and pretend you know better. Denial, denial, denial is the name of your game.

The argument of design is just plain false, a construct of a superficial mind. The argument of irreducible complexity is similarly ridiculous, a "logic" of the religious. Nobody once said that fully modern cells sprang into being and began to function normally, as you so mistakenly assert.

Nature does not follow logic any more than it follows mathematical models. These things can approximate and help to understand nature, but don't for a second believe they are absolute.

All of your arguments you prattle on about have been debunked multiple times. Get over it.

-TG

[Metsfanmax]

If you want to disprove an idea you need to challenge or talk about the idea and its merits/faults not the believer of the idea.
The minute you switch discussion to the person who holds that idea, you change the subject.

Ridicule is not an argument!

Ridicule is the primary weapon of the creationists. Instead of taking seriously the scientific data available, they make grand claims about various possibilities and assert that the "evolutionist's" argument is ridiculous. Like the argument about the "probability" of forming a protein (I've shown why it's incorrect thinking, but for this argument, the relevant point is that all UC has done is claim that it's ridiculous that such an event could have happened, instead of showing why it didn't happen). Or like the argument that it's ridiculous that we could have "smooth layers without commingling." None of the creationist arguments attempt to explain the entirety of scientific knowledge that we know in a single, coherent system -- they just try to poke holes in various aspects of the scientific consensus by claiming that certain aspects of it are beyond the pale (there's no way that my grandfather was an ape, etc.).

So if you don't like ridicule, then you know which side you should be on.

[universalchiro]

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

Really, comparing Creationists to Nazis? I don't know what I believe as far as creationism vs intelligent design vs evolution vs whatever else but I do not believe that the Torah, nor the Bible, nor the Quran ever say that there are no such things as aliens and if there were, that the entire book would be false.

Creationists are fr worse than Nazis. Creationism was started by Satan, who wanted to tear down Christianity, so he started a cult that calls themselves "Christians" in order to dissuade others from a higher calling.

They are a Christian hate group pure and simple.

Hey? Why did you change the subject?
Why instead of addressing the issue (whether evolution actually has any scientific validity) did you decided to call names?
We may not see eye to eye on some topics but have I called you names?
Have I compared you or people with your beliefs to Nazis or suggested that Satan started your ideas.
If you or others don't want to discuss the topic then fine, don't post.
But please stick to what the subject is.

The original post was that there is no evidence or naturalistic way that evolution, no matter the time given, has the ability to create the life we see today.
There are too many things inside even the simplest life form to haev happened by chance due to natural selection and random mutations.
Too many interdependent machines inside cells that only serve a purpose when used together with other parts.

-Please explain how DNA came to be.
-Please explain how a cell with all its required parts, all happened at once.
-And if you claim it did not happen all at once, which functional parts were not needed and why?

Evolutionists say it just happened because we hare here today so except it.
I say prove out your theory. Explain to me the things above.

Designed things require a designer. There is too much design in nature an life to be from nothing.
Humans are looking for life on other planets or galaxies (SETI)
We are seeking radio waves that carry prime numbers or recognizable patterns.
We feel that if we can get a cler signal of those, we will have found other life. Why?
Because organized information is a sign of intelligence and creative beings.
If radio waves from space with prime numbers woudl lead us to believe that intelligence is out there in
the universe (besides us) ,then why do you ignore the information of billions of coded DNA strands and say it happens by chance?

Why does a simple organized radio wave, a scratching on a cave wall of an animal, the words "Hello" written in the sand on a beach signify to all of you INTELLIGENCE.
But inside a human cell (each one) contains the genetic code of each person (which is different) that drives the way our bodies do so many vastly difference and complex functions happen randomly.

I (an many others) are claiming that life and how it works, is a sign of an intelligent designer. Information points to a consciousnesses.
You (and many others) just claim we are blinded or stupid or Nazi, etc,etc etc. Not much of a supportive case for your viewpoint.
Can you explain the challenges put forth above?

If you want to disprove an idea you need to challenge or talk about the idea and its merits/faults not the believer of the idea.
The minute you switch discussion to the person who holds that idea, you change the subject.

Ridicule is not an argument!

Thanks


P.S. GoranZ I will reply to your reply of my reply tomorrow for it is getting late.

Proud of both Patrick and Widowmaker, you both write lucid clear thought and logic. The locus of divide is not with your sound evidence and conclusion that there is an intelligent designer, it is the implication that there is an intelligent designer. So instead of addressing the information & checkmated with inevitable conclusion, they allusively use ad hominums.

No evolutionist can get around the probability of random unguided formations of 20 amino acids in sequence 150 long to form a protein is 1 in 2X10^150. And this needs to be done 250-500 times for one single cell. And making the odds even worse, for each single protein, the four nucleotides that make up the DNA code needs to have precise order sequenced 1,500 chain. So the odds of the DNA gene code is 1 in 4X10^1,500, and that's only for one protein sequence. The probability becomes to remote, and that was only for one protein, there are 250-500 proteins in one cell. So the process of random unguided changes quickly gets exposed as a faith based hypothesis.

[AndyDufresne]

--Andy

[universalchiro]

Goran maybe you didn't realize the simplicity of blood types. But here is the genetics for you:

Two humans: one with IB/I (type B) and the other with IA/I(type A)

Then use the F.O.I.L. technique from algebra.

IA/i X IB/i. They have four kids.
IA/IB, IA/i, i/IB, i/i.
With one offspring we have types AB, A, B, and O.

So your question is solved in one generation.

[AndyDufresne]

--Andy

[betiko]

Lebron james just signed for the cavs!

[hotfire]

Lebron james just signed for the cavs!

that's impossible u dumb evolutionist...there was only a 15% chance of that happening according some sports guy with sports stats...therefore the cavs created him to play for them

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Goran maybe you didn't realize the simplicity of blood types. But here is the genetics for you:

Two humans: one with IB/I (type B) and the other with IA/I(type A)

Then use the F.O.I.L. technique from algebra.

IA/i X IB/i. They have four kids.
IA/IB, IA/i, i/IB, i/i.
With one offspring we have types AB, A, B, and O.

So your question is solved in one generation.

But wasn't Eve made from Adam? Wouldn't she have the same blood type?

-TG

[Dukasaur]

Goran maybe you didn't realize the simplicity of blood types. But here is the genetics for you:

Two humans: one with IB/I (type B) and the other with IA/I(type A)

Then use the F.O.I.L. technique from algebra.

IA/i X IB/i. They have four kids.
IA/IB, IA/i, i/IB, i/i.
With one offspring we have types AB, A, B, and O.

So your question is solved in one generation.

But wasn't Eve made from Adam? Wouldn't she have the same blood type?

-TG

Maybe he had a different kind of blood in his rib than in the rest of his body.

[oVo]

Is Adam & Eve a fact or a folktale for the kiddies?
Eve... get out of the river.
On the atomic and subatomic levels a lot can happen
over 600 million years. Radiation causes radical
changes in cells and our planet has a history of this
bombardment from our closest star.

It's fortunate there currently is a shield in our
atmosphere to reduce the intensity of this
radiation.

Every culture on the planet has a creation story,
why did Jesus wait so long to show up?

[GoranZ]

Why do you feel life on other planets is bad news for creationists?

In that case you guys will be same as the Nazis... 1000 times told lie could only become truth only in your eyes.

Really, comparing Creationists to Nazis? I don't know what I believe as far as creationism vs intelligent design vs evolution vs whatever else but I do not believe that the Torah, nor the Bible, nor the Quran ever say that there are no such things as aliens and if there were, that the entire book would be false.

Creationists are fr worse than Nazis. Creationism was started by Satan, who wanted to tear down Christianity, so he started a cult that calls themselves "Christians" in order to dissuade others from a higher calling.

They are a Christian hate group pure and simple.

Hey? Why did you change the subject?
Why instead of addressing the issue (whether evolution actually has any scientific validity) did you decided to call names?
We may not see eye to eye on some topics but have I called you names?
Have I compared you or people with your beliefs to Nazis or suggested that Satan started your ideas.

How many people in the world are being killed every day in the name of GOD? Way too many. That is the debt you guys have, and that debt will have to be relayed one day, it is not forgotten, and it will not be forgotten. The world will come to a moment when it will have to deal with that problems with the religion so it can go forward... What I'm posting is only a warning of what will unavoidably happen...

The original post was that there is no evidence or naturalistic way that evolution, no matter the time given, has the ability to create the life we see today.
There are too many things inside even the simplest life form to haev happened by chance due to natural selection and random mutations.
Too many interdependent machines inside cells that only serve a purpose when used together with other parts.

-Please explain how DNA came to be.
-Please explain how a cell with all its required parts, all happened at once.
-And if you claim it did not happen all at once, which functional parts were not needed and why?

Evolutionists say it just happened because we hare here today so except it.
I say prove out your theory. Explain to me the things above.

You want to know all the details rite? Well for now we dont know all the details, but we know the details about something else, something that is older then DNA. When and how did the earth formed? That is the question you should ask before coming to the issue of DNA. So the formation of the earth is explained here.
Whats interesting you guys believe that the earth is 6000 years old, that there was a global flood in its early period but there is no record of such flood in Ancient Egyptian scripts which are 6000 years old. Obviously such flood didn't affect them and it wasn't global as you say.

Designed things require a designer. There is too much design in nature an life to be from nothing.
Humans are looking for life on other planets or galaxies (SETI)
We are seeking radio waves that carry prime numbers or recognizable patterns.
We feel that if we can get a cler signal of those, we will have found other life. Why?
Because organized information is a sign of intelligence and creative beings.
If radio waves from space with prime numbers woudl lead us to believe that intelligence is out there in
the universe (besides us) ,then why do you ignore the information of billions of coded DNA strands and say it happens by chance?

Why does a simple organized radio wave, a scratching on a cave wall of an animal, the words "Hello" written in the sand on a beach signify to all of you INTELLIGENCE.
But inside a human cell (each one) contains the genetic code of each person (which is different) that drives the way our bodies do so many vastly difference and complex functions happen randomly.

I (an many others) are claiming that life and how it works, is a sign of an intelligent designer. Information points to a consciousnesses.
You (and many others) just claim we are blinded or stupid or Nazi, etc,etc etc. Not much of a supportive case for your viewpoint.
Can you explain the challenges put forth above?

If you want to disprove an idea you need to challenge or talk about the idea and its merits/faults not the believer of the idea.
The minute you switch discussion to the person who holds that idea, you change the subject.

Ridicule is not an argument!

Thanks


P.S. GoranZ I will reply to your reply of my reply tomorrow for it is getting late.

Interesting but you guys cant explain a single event from your Gods books and you want we to explain everything. Well we will some day but not today, and the reason for that is YOU, guys like you were blocking knowledge for so long. You dont have to look for loops in what I wrote, you simply have to explain with scientific evidence a single event from your Gods books. 1 will be enough

[GoranZ]

Goran maybe you didn't realize the simplicity of blood types. But here is the genetics for you:

Two humans: one with IB/I (type B) and the other with IA/I(type A)

Then use the F.O.I.L. technique from algebra.

IA/i X IB/i. They have four kids.
IA/IB, IA/i, i/IB, i/i.
With one offspring we have types AB, A, B, and O.

So your question is solved in one generation.

But wasn't Eve made from Adam? Wouldn't she have the same blood type?

-TG

Good question, but even without it he just explained why evolution works...

Thank you very much about your post UC... You just made the best post proving that there is evolution... How?
According to you there is no evolution but adaptation and everything has the genes to make the necessary adaptations. But according to your words adaptation mean ability to swap between 2 states since there are available genes for both.
So in theory the offspring can return to the blood type of their ancestors rite?

Lets do extreme test... If for example you have blood type 0, and you receive blood type AB will that be good for you, or you might die? DoomYoshi can you explain to him what will happen plz?
If you have 0 blood type in RL do you willingly want to test your theory about adaptation? Lets all see how it works in real case?... Well you dont have to do this in reality I think I already won, and I dont want to be responsible for someones death regardless of everything...

WidowMakers same question(maybe you will have luck with your answer).
Adam and Eve and 4 human blood types. Go ahead I would like to hear your explanation

P.S. I think I shot a Creationist... maybe more then 1 with only 1 bullet

[DoomYoshi]

The original post was that there is no evidence or naturalistic way that evolution, no matter the time given, has the ability to create the life we see today.
There are too many things inside even the simplest life form to haev happened by chance due to natural selection and random mutations.
Too many interdependent machines inside cells that only serve a purpose when used together with other parts.

-Please explain how DNA came to be.
-Please explain how a cell with all its required parts, all happened at once.
-And if you claim it did not happen all at once, which functional parts were not needed and why?

Well, I'm pretty sure this is the fourth time I've answered in this thread, but here we go again:
Chance doesn't have anything to do with evolution. Evolution could still be guided by God.
Name one such machine.
God made it. However, this has nothing to do with evolution.
I don't have to. The RNA world hypothesis does not have this as a prerequisite.
This is a longer conversation than this thread warrants.

[notyou2]

Mankind is simple, foolish and petty, yet with great hubris, for it is only man that has made a god in man's image to say god made man in his image.

[universalchiro]

Goran, it so sad to read how little you know about genetics and evolution, then be so confident that you won. Poor thing, here is a tip for you, for any change in eye color of offspring, or change in any hair color in offspring or change in blood type of offspring, or change in any external feature, it is all based on information already existing in the DNA code. It's the DNA code that has the information already. So a recessive eye color such as blue from two parents that both have recessive brown eyes, is exclusively based from the information already existing in the DNA from both parents via their chromosomes. This is in no way evolution. And the same for blood type.

Evolution requires new information not existent in both parents for a new function and new information for a new kind.

Adaptation already has the information embedded in the DNA code. So again, your alleged self proclaimed victory, is short lived. I would recommend doing more reading and more research before you try convincing others that your belief system is correct. Because each time you post, you reveal more and more of what you really don't know.