Israel

[jusplay4fun]

The Zionist Project has just bombed the last Christian hospital in Gaza.

Extremely unlikely. They'd have nothing to gain by it.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-biden-rafah-e062825a375d9eb62e95509cab95b80c

In a briefing with reporters, the chief army spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said the army determined there were no air force, ground or naval attacks in the area at the time of the blast. He said radar detected outgoing rocket fire at the same moment, and intercepted communications between militant groups indicated that Islamic Jihad fired the rockets.

Hagari also shared aerial footage collected by a military drone that showed a blast that he said was inconsistent with Israeli weaponry. He said the explosion occurred in the building’s parking lot.

Sacrificing a few hundred of their own citizens for a propaganda moment has Hamas written all over it.

There is and will be conflicting “evidence” regarding who is responsible in the damage and casualties near the hospital. Duk’s hypothesis makes the most sense of all and, for me, is the ultimate “proof” or convincing and most cogent argument.

Also, there is no crater, that an Israeli bomb would leave. GaryD or some other apologists for Hamas already admit their rockets are not powerful enough (to leave a crater).

Further, many refugees were in the parking lot of the hospital, raising the civilian casualties. All video I have seen show damage in the parking lot (mostly to cars).

How many air strikes or artillery was launched by Israel to the southern end of the Gaza Strip. None that I have found evidence for.

Hamas rockets are often crudely made, so whose weapons are more likely to malfunction? Hamas, not Israel.

Lastly, for now, what would Israel gain by bombing a hospital? Nothing. What would Hamas gain? Lots. Apply okham’s Razor.

Looking at most of the evidence and trying to be impartial, the preponderance of the evidence shifts the blame towards Hamas.

[jusplay4fun]

'explosion'
Not rocket, not confirmed.

Rocket with explosion

Over 450 rockets launched by Hamas and another affiliated terrorist organization fell short. The blast was caused by a failed rocket launch by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Something posted by the pack rat that makes sense. Finally.

[saxitoxin]

1. Between 2001 and 2009, Hamas launched nearly 3,000 rockets into Israel resulting in 29 deaths. This one rocket, somehow, managed to kill 500 people. Something that 3,000 rockets combined couldn't do.

2. As of 2021, there had been 680 Hamas rockets that had misfired and landed in Gaza, resulting in 91 total deaths. Again, somehow, this single rocket killed five times as many people as 680 rockets combined. [https://besacenter.org/how-many-gaza-palestinians-were-killed-by-hamas-rockets-in-may-an-estimate/]

3. No idea if this is accurate or not but, if this video is typical of the strength of a Qassam rocket, it seems hard to believe one of these could kill 500 people and level a four story building.

https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/stat ... 9690729683

4. Here are some pictures of confirmed Qassam rocket hits. None of these look like "500 dead" sorta explosions. In the third picture, the detonation was so small a guy's putting the fire out with a garden house. Some of the cars at Ground Zero in the first two photos look like they just need to be run through the Mr. Shine car wash and they'll be good as new.

Click image to enlarge.

[mookiemcgee]

1. Between 2001 and 2009, Hamas launched nearly 3,000 rockets into Israel resulting in 29 deaths. This one rocket, somehow, managed to kill 500 people. Something that 3,000 rockets combined couldn't do.

Rockets hitting Israel have spent most of their fuel arriving at their destination. If this was a rocket fired by Hamas from 'from the cemetery behind the hospital' (per the audio recording released by Israel of hamas talking about the rocket) and misfired crashing into the hospital almost immediately the mostly unspent fuel igniting is what analyst are suggesting explains why the damage was so great.

I'm not saying that is for sure what happened, I'm just saying that if it did happen that way it would effectively neutralize all the points you made here about how non-deadly this rocket usually is. They also don't usually hit hospitals full of people, and there is also some suggestion the death numbers specific to the hospital were inflated.

I'd also add it seem very unlikely that Israel or Hamas would do this 'on purpose' right now. Israel is in a pre-amble to an incursion, and trying to galvanize global support. I big political campaign prior to 'the fog of war' to gain 'hearts and minds' internationally and now is when you blow up a hospital?

It should seem obvious to anyone that Hamas probably didn't want to kill 500 of their own sick and injured people. Yes I know they have a horrible reputation for disgusting attacks, but where is the upside in this for them? Political points on the global stage by a terrorist group by blaming it on Israel? Far more likely they fucked up with shitty rockets and desperately tried to blame someone else and are desperately trying to make lemonade.

[saxitoxin]

1. Between 2001 and 2009, Hamas launched nearly 3,000 rockets into Israel resulting in 29 deaths. This one rocket, somehow, managed to kill 500 people. Something that 3,000 rockets combined couldn't do.

Rockets hitting Israel have spent most of their fuel arriving at their destination. If this was a rocket fired by Hamas from 'from the cemetery behind the hospital' (per the audio recording released by Israel of hamas talking about the rocket) and misfired crashing into the hospital almost immediately the mostly unspent fuel igniting is what analyst are suggesting explains why the damage was so great.

If one of these carries enough fuel that it can kill 500 people and level a building if it explodes, tens of thousands of people would be dying every morning on the commute from LA to Long Beach.

I'd also add it seem very unlikely that Israel or Hamas would do this 'on purpose' right now. Israel is in a pre-amble to an incursion, and trying to galvanize global support.

Israel has no global support and will never get it. It knows that. The only entity it has support from is the USA and the USA will let it do just about anything without repercussion. Israel has been selling American military secrets to China and the USA simply shrugs. Israel knows it can do what it wants, when it wants.

[saxitoxin]

If you put faith or stock in the excuses of the Zionist Project, you're supporting the Zionist Project.

ALWAYS
BELIEVE
PALESTINIANS

[jusplay4fun]

1. Between 2001 and 2009, Hamas launched nearly 3,000 rockets into Israel resulting in 29 deaths. This one rocket, somehow, managed to kill 500 people. Something that 3,000 rockets combined couldn't do.

Rockets hitting Israel have spent most of their fuel arriving at their destination. If this was a rocket fired by Hamas from 'from the cemetery behind the hospital' (per the audio recording released by Israel of hamas talking about the rocket) and misfired crashing into the hospital almost immediately the mostly unspent fuel igniting is what analyst are suggesting explains why the damage was so great.

I'm not saying that is for sure what happened, I'm just saying that if it did happen that way it would effectively neutralize all the points you made here about how non-deadly this rocket usually is. They also don't usually hit hospitals full of people, and there is also some suggestion the death numbers specific to the hospital were inflated.

I'd also add it seem very unlikely that Israel or Hamas would do this 'on purpose' right now. Israel is in a pre-amble to an incursion, and trying to galvanize global support. I big political campaign prior to 'the fog of war' to gain 'hearts and minds' internationally and now is when you blow up a hospital?

It should seem obvious to anyone that Hamas probably didn't want to kill 500 of their own sick and injured people. Yes I know they have a horrible reputation for disgusting attacks, but where is the upside in this for them? Political points on the global stage by a terrorist group by blaming it on Israel? Far more likely they fucked up with shitty rockets and desperately tried to blame someone else and are desperately trying to make lemonade.

This too makes sense. Looking for unbiased evidence seems fruitless and , at best, wishful thinking.

I think Mookie is saying that it makes sense that a Hamas or jihad rocket that did the damage and killed all those people. I have seen no video that shows actual and/or significant damage to the hospital. As I said earlier, many casualties were because many refugees were in the parking lot of the hospital to flee the violence in the North.

What would Israel gain from bombing a hospital? Nothing. What does Hamas gain trying to blame Israel for this attack? Lots. And cancelled visits with Muslim leaders for President Biden is one actual gain. And vitriol by Hamas apologists for Israel is more “payoff” and further gain.

One theory even suggests inflated casualties by Hamas. Really? Would Hamas do that? For what purpose??

Simply apply Ockham’s Razor. Shave away the complexities (and some would say LIES) and what is left is the simplest and most sensible explanation. Ergo, it was a Hamas or jihadist bad rocket that sadly killed all those unfortunate Palestinians.

[jusplay4fun]

If you put faith or stock in the excuses of the Zionist Project, you're supporting the Zionist Project.

ALWAYS
BELIEVE
PALESTINIANS

Saxi only supports Hamas to try to win favors from his PAL Ralph. saxi is getting desperate. LoL.

[mookiemcgee]

ALWAYS
BELIEVE
PALESTINIANS

I mean I am...they are saying they did it and fucked up... and as just wrote it's the only explanation where motive can be rationalized (no motive, accident).

[mookiemcgee]

One theory even suggests inflated casualties by Hamas. Really? Would Hamas do that? For what purpose??

I think it's just in for a penny in for a pound logic. You already decided you are going all in on blaming Israel, so make it sound as severe and serious as you can now. Number could also be accurate, may never know... and in the end is kinda stupid and irrelevant (if it was 300 or 700 would it really change anyones opinion)

[ConfederateSS]

Confed I give your posts a chance and a read, I really do try and understand them mate.

Are you suggesting there was an ammo dump in or near the hospital that got hit and exploded?
Not a horrible guess, but that isn't what the video showed.
It was one massive rolling explosion. A pile of munitions would have been a series of consecutive explosions.
Even at a high rate of speed, the individual booms even if exploding concurrently, would have been able to be identified visually in the video.

Israel is blaming it on Hamas ofcourse.
However the one thing that both sides agree on is that Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israel since this all started.
Israel can get me to consider their argument valid if they can show one other example of this type of damage from a Hamas rocket.
They have thousands of chances to do this.
Just one single example of this type of damage that has been done by any of those thousands of rockets.

Thus far, they have not.

---------I am saying...Do you know the saying when horsing around...Something bad always happens...I am saying Hamas probably hides weapons near Hospitals...To shield weapons(which means , carrying weapons to and from the area, hence the horsing around lingo)...The size of a stock pile , type of weapons, also would determine a blast, big or small...It was the parking lot that was hit...There still could be weapons in the Hospital, or close by...All those people sleeping out in the parking lot...The blast hit them, killing a lot...Also shook the operating room , a cave in killed 300 people inside, looking for a safe place...What if the Hospital was a direct hit...One more clue who did it...A shot from a fighter jet, would have been right on the bullseye, those weapons are to high tech...The entire hospital would have been destroyed...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[mookiemcgee]

Confed I give your posts a chance and a read, I really do try and understand them mate.

Are you suggesting there was an ammo dump in or near the hospital that got hit and exploded?
Not a horrible guess, but that isn't what the video showed.
It was one massive rolling explosion. A pile of munitions would have been a series of consecutive explosions.
Even at a high rate of speed, the individual booms even if exploding concurrently, would have been able to be identified visually in the video.

Israel is blaming it on Hamas ofcourse.
However the one thing that both sides agree on is that Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israel since this all started.
Israel can get me to consider their argument valid if they can show one other example of this type of damage from a Hamas rocket.
They have thousands of chances to do this.
Just one single example of this type of damage that has been done by any of those thousands of rockets.

Thus far, they have not.

---------I am saying...Do you know the saying when horsing around...Something bad always happens...I am saying Hamas probably hides weapons near Hospitals...To shield weapons(which means , carrying weapons to and from the area, hence the horsing around lingo)...The size of a stock pile , type of weapons, also would determine a blast, big or small...It was the parking lot that was hit...There still could be weapons in the Hospital, or close by...All those people sleeping out in the parking lot...The blast hit them, killing a lot...Also shook the operating room , a cave in killed 300 people inside, looking for a safe place...What if the Hospital was a direct hit...One more clue who did it...A shot from a fighter jet, would have been right on the bullseye, those weapons are to high tech...The entire hospital would have been destroyed...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Maybe it was the Jewish Space lasers?

[Lonous]

This will be my last word on the Hospital bombing unless more evidence comes to light

---------A shot from a fighter jet, would have been right on the bullseye, those weapons are to high tech...The entire hospital would have been destroyed...

IF Israel used a JDAM. They have been using plenty of them, but not exclusively, or even mostly them.

They have a wide range of munitions mostly but not fully listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _Air_Force
To clarify above and beyond that list, they have also used White Phosphorus, Air Burst detonations, and outlawed cluster bombs.
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2007-03 ... e-examined

There is no doubt Hamas has military units near the hospital, the previous video I posted showed rockets launching very close by, just to the right of the hospital.
I refuse to believe anything Israel or Hamas says on the matter. Testimony out of either party is and always will be suspect. I prefer to use whatever evidence we find, filtered through what is logical.

Rat I think it was compared Hamas rockets to fireworks. That isn't a horrible comparison. As others have noted, Hamas has fired thousands of rockets and the Israeli casualty list from them is in the double digits. All the rest of the casualties come from the work of invading fighters on the ground. A Hamas rocket did not do the hospital attack. To change my mind all I ask is for a link to a similar outcome from any of the 12,000 rockets they have fired over the last 20 years. Just-one-single-example

There are none so far.

Now what we have been provided is *evidence* of varying kinds, all of it possibly tainted at best, or manufactured at worst.

Israel ofcourse says they didn't do it. Their intel guys that apparently completely missed thousands of Hamas preparing for months and months, now have a recording of the two Hamas guys that not only happened to know what transpired, but also decided to get on radios and talk about it. Yeah, I don't believe in Santa and I don't believe when an entity, any entity in any situation, suddenly gifts you with 'the magic evidence' that exonerates them.
You can either believe the Israeli intelligence apparatus had a complete failure during all the months it took for this Hamas operation to prepare. Or you can believe their intel is to such a grand caliber that they catch every conversation Hamas is having, and share the relevant ones with the public.

People, you cannot believe both and keep any credibility.

Israel has shared their drone intel with us, showing pics before and after the bombing.
Its possible that they have current photos of every square inch of Gaza, but effective use of resources would dictate that they are focusing recon efforts on areas of interest.
They clearly had the hospital district as an area of interest. And rightly so, we have the security cam videos of Hamas firing rockets from an area that is reasonably close to the hospital. maybe 1 block away? Maybe from the buildings on the other side of the parking lot? Unknown precisely, but near.

We can see the size of the fireball when it happened. Again, show me one single other example of any Hamas rocket making that caliber of BOOM.

What do I think that happened? The only thing that makes sense and fits the damage pics, which is this.
Hamas was firing their rockets from the camp which is near the hospital.
Israel was scouting with drones and found a large gathering of people: most likely using Infrared and thermal sighting, so they could also pinpoint the rocket heat signatures.
They found hundreds of people huddled in close proximity and thought they hit the Hamas jackpot.
They sent in jets to do a strike and performed a canister munitions air burst, to maximize damage to the imagined Hamas battalion on the ground.
They wanted to act fast before this large meeting dispersed, so they didn't take time to double check and authenticate that these were fighters.

It turned out to be a parking lot full of patients getting triaged, because the hospital itself was already too full.
I don't believe Israel intentionally bombed injured victims, but I don't think they care all that much.
They are in spin mode currently only because they need global public support.

[2dimes]

They are in spin mode currently only because they need global public support.

The real "fog of war".

General in a war room, "We're going to take out this Hospital because they're using it as a shield. If we time it right we figure the goat herders might believe they accidentally did it with one of their shitty rockets. As usual none of this leaves the room, and media relations officer Saxitoxin, will be giving a press conference shortly after. Any questions?"

[ConfederateSS]

-------------So, 574 riots throughout America...In 2020 A.D....Nothing done...Biden's D.O.J./F.B.I...Has targeted Parents at school board meetings, Catholics , Have prosecuted January 6th , people...Not the ones smashing stuff...Ones just walking through the Capital...Taking pictures...A special council , to go after Trump...

--------------Yesterday , Pro Palestinian Protesters , Outside , then inside the Capital...Disrupted the nomination of Ambassador to Israel...Lew to be cleared by the Senate...Marched right into the room/chamber...Stopping the process of clearing the Ambassador...Took over the Rotunda...
-------------- Over 700 arrested....Will they be held to the same standard as January 6th protesters???...EXACT SAME THING...
-------------- My Congressman Rashida Tlaib incited a riot at the Capital...Will she by charged, and have Jake Smith hound her???...With attacks against Israel....Where the difference with Trump...He told people to march peacefully to the Capital...If one is going to go after Trump, those who did march peacefully...But now are being crucified.......SHOULD NOT YESTERDAY'S PROTESTERS ARRESTED AND TLAIB BE HELD TO THE SAME FATE.....WILL THEY???...NO THE ARE LEFT WING PROTESTERS, PROTECTED BY BIDEN'S D.O.J...WATCH AND SEE AGAIN THE ONE SIDED JUSTICE SYSTEM...Nothing will happen to them... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[saxitoxin]

White House doxes four Delta Force operators:

https://twitter.com/samosaur/status/1714962125980901873

[Pack Rat]

-------------So, 574 riots throughout America...In 2020 A.D....Nothing done...Biden's D.O.J./F.B.I...Has targeted Parents at school board meetings, Catholics , Have prosecuted January 6th , people...Not the ones smashing stuff...Ones just walking through the Capital...Taking pictures...A special council , to go after Trump...

--------------Yesterday , Pro Palestinian Protesters , Outside , then inside the Capital...Disrupted the nomination of Ambassador to Israel...Lew to be cleared by the Senate...Marched right into the room/chamber...Stopping the process of clearing the Ambassador...Took over the Rotunda...
-------------- Over 700 arrested....Will they be held to the same standard as January 6th protesters???...EXACT SAME THING...
-------------- My Congressman Rashida Tlaib incited a riot at the Capital...Will she by charged, and have Jake Smith hound her???...With attacks against Israel....Where the difference with Trump...He told people to march peacefully to the Capital...If one is going to go after Trump, those who did march peacefully...But now are being crucified.......SHOULD NOT YESTERDAY'S PROTESTERS ARRESTED AND TLAIB BE HELD TO THE SAME FATE.....WILL THEY???...NO THE ARE LEFT WING PROTESTERS, PROTECTED BY BIDEN'S D.O.J...WATCH AND SEE AGAIN THE ONE SIDED JUSTICE SYSTEM...Nothing will happen to them... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Are you trying to derail this Israel topic with nonsense? Crazies for crazies!

[ConfederateSS]

-------------So, 574 riots throughout America...In 2020 A.D....Nothing done...Biden's D.O.J./F.B.I...Has targeted Parents at school board meetings, Catholics , Have prosecuted January 6th , people...Not the ones smashing stuff...Ones just walking through the Capital...Taking pictures...A special council , to go after Trump...

--------------Yesterday , Pro Palestinian Protesters , Outside , then inside the Capital...Disrupted the nomination of Ambassador to Israel...Lew to be cleared by the Senate...Marched right into the room/chamber...Stopping the process of clearing the Ambassador...Took over the Rotunda...
-------------- Over 700 arrested....Will they be held to the same standard as January 6th protesters???...EXACT SAME THING...
-------------- My Congressman Rashida Tlaib incited a riot at the Capital...Will she by charged, and have Jake Smith hound her???...With attacks against Israel....Where the difference with Trump...He told people to march peacefully to the Capital...If one is going to go after Trump, those who did march peacefully...But now are being crucified.......SHOULD NOT YESTERDAY'S PROTESTERS ARRESTED AND TLAIB BE HELD TO THE SAME FATE.....WILL THEY???...NO THE ARE LEFT WING PROTESTERS, PROTECTED BY BIDEN'S D.O.J...WATCH AND SEE AGAIN THE ONE SIDED JUSTICE SYSTEM...Nothing will happen to them... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Are you trying to derail this Israel topic with nonsense? Crazies for crazies!

-------It is part of the Israeli / Palestine conflict...An insurrection just happened at The U.S Capital...Because of their conflict...You know the silent LEFT on the topic ...But you could here shouting on the MOON from them, on January 6th...January 6th here, there, everywhere...The Democrat process was stopped...Because of the protesters...Wasn't that THE BIG DEAL to The LEFT...All aspects of it...Hollywood , other LEFTIES have put out, the it's all Israel's fault...It is all about the topic at hand...They are mixed together...TAKE A VERY CLOSE LOOK...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[Votanic]

Are you trying to derail this Israel topic with nonsense? Crazies for crazies!

"... wasn't because I didn't know ...just knew too much..."

Now lets not derail this music lyrics analysis thread with any more newsblog cut & pastes.

As has already been well stated in this thread, these douchbag dust-ups in the Middle East are as old as history. They ALWAYS get derailed... until the next time.

...or the last time.

[Lonous]

a few sources reporting that Israel has ordered the evacuation of a different Gaza hospital.

From 48m ago
13.23 EDT
Palestine Red Crescent says Israeli army demanding evacuation of Al-Quds hospital
The Palestinian Red Crescent said its operations at Al-Quds hospital in Gaza City face an “imminent threat” after the Israeli military ordered the hospital’s evacuation.
The PRCS posted in an “urgent appeal” to social media saying that the hospital is “a sanctuary for over 400 patients and around 12,000 displaced civilians”.
We call the international community to act urgently, averting another catastrophe like Al-Ahli hospital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... 9242af7b2a

Hhmm. I was willing to write off the first targeted hospital as an accident, but patterns have meaning.

[Votanic]

a few sources reporting that Israel has ordered the evacuation of a different Gaza hospital.

From 48m ago
13.23 EDT
Palestine Red Crescent says Israeli army demanding evacuation of Al-Quds hospital
The Palestinian Red Crescent said its operations at Al-Quds hospital in Gaza City face an “imminent threat” after the Israeli military ordered the hospital’s evacuation.
The PRCS posted in an “urgent appeal” to social media saying that the hospital is “a sanctuary for over 400 patients and around 12,000 displaced civilians”.
We call the international community to act urgently, averting another catastrophe like Al-Ahli hospital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... 9242af7b2a

Hhmm. I was willing to write off the first targeted hospital as an accident, but patterns have meaning.

Isn't blowing up a hospital just the RL equivalent of breaking a bonus?

[HitRed]

October 21, 23 Adoration

I am the Lord God of Israel. I have come to set people free. Run to me with all your concerns and worries. I take care of my little flock. I shepherd my flock in the ways of the Lord God of Israel. Turn to me and listen to my words. Never fail to respond to the sound of my voice. I call to each one to listen to my voice and know I am God from on high. Seek me for I am there waiting. I come to my little ones as I did so long ago when I walked the earth. I am the Lord God seek after me.

[saxitoxin]

Former Republican congressman Justin Amash has announced that several of his family members were killed by the Zionist Project yesterday. They were seeking shelter in Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church in Gaza when the Zionist Project bombed it into a pile of rubble.

This is a photo of the church's sanctuary before the Zionist Project destroyed it.



Until the Zionist Project leveled it, Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church was the third oldest Christian church on Earth. It was built on the site of an earlier temple to Zeus. Porphyrius converted Gaza to Christianity in 400.

[saxitoxin]

Hamas officials regularly visited Saint Porphyrius on the Orthodox Christmas but there is no credible information it had ever been used as a military site.

A delegation from the Hamas Movement on Sunday visited the Church of Saint Porphyrius in the Gaza Strip and met with its officials.

The delegation included senior Hamas officials Basem Na’im, Taher al-Nunu and Fawzi Barhoum.

During the meeting, Na’im conveyed the Hamas leadership’s regards and best wishes to the Christian community in Gaza, which he described as “our partners in the homeland and brothers.”

The Hamas official expressed hope that the Palestinian people, both Muslims and Christians, would pray in Jerusalem next year with no occupation and national division.

He denounced the Israeli occupation authority for preventing Gaza Christians from visiting the holy places in the West Bank and Jerusalem during the Christmas holiday, affirming that the occupation targets the Palestinian presence regardless of their religion and geographical location.

For his part, Archbishop Alexios expressed his appreciation to the Hamas officials for their visit, hoping to see all Palestinians enjoy freedom, independence, justice and peace.

https://english.palinfo.com/42527