ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[john9blue]

Seeing as the US is arguably the world's leading nation, it makes sense to hold us to a different standard than everyone else. Our job is to research, innovate, explore, as the frontrunners. Europe's job is to keep their people happy, use our tech when we let you, and give us an occasional luminary genius or two to help us out.

Same goes for government. If a foreign government gets out of hand, the rest of the world can deal with it. But if the US government gets out of hand, it's a big fucking problem. That is why US citizens SHOULD be more wary of their government than Europeans. If one of you guys across the pond goes corrupt, count on us to put your asses back in line like we have before.

This is why it irritates me when people try to compare second-rate countries to the USA. Yes, second-rate. And guess what? The more we try to be like other countries, the quicker we are losing our status as the world's leading nation. Funny how that works.

[GreecePwns]

The highly praised British NHS is going to become more competitive and allow doctors to make more decisions to cut out bureaucrats. Yet the US wants MORE government control? Maybe we should actually look across the pond and figure out big government DOES NOT WORK!

Please explain the difference between the health care system resulting in the yellow line on this graph and those that result in the others.

Easy: The US has the most innovative and effective care in the world, especially when it comes to specialized treatments. Socialized systems might work better for routine care for all people, but no other country in the world can match the specialized practices we have here in the US. That's why people come TO the US for treatments rather than go to other countries.

Innovative I won't argue with. The World Health Organization begs to differ on effectiveness, having rated the United States 37th in the world based on effectiveness, behind all of those on the graph. As for the second part, people who cannot afford the costs also leave FROM the US (mostly to Canada) for "medical tourism." An example I often cite is my grandpa booking a flight to Greece, staying in a hotel for a week, taking a taxi back and forth to the hospital and getting open heart surgery of equal quality for cheaper than it would be here. The people that come here are the rich from other countries that come here for the expensive innovative treatments. Is our system here to serve those who come here or those who live here? In the recent reform bill is a committee to review the effectiveness of new treatments and, in essence, share the best practices with the industry without having to deal with political red tape.

So the results are that relatively simple procedures for non-life threatening issues are too expensive for socialized medicine, so the government has to cut them and force the "insured" to live their lives with more pain and suffering that could cause other long-term issues. Sounds great!

Yeah, which is why this was the wrong decision by a conservative government whose done everything it can to screw over its people in the name of "austerity." In the UK many also have supplemental private insurance (like Medicare here).

[Phatscotty]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

[Night Strike]

WHO measures effectiveness based on the care provided to all citizens. Of course, they also don't factor in things such as the US having such a high obesity rate due to personal decisions (freedoms) that make health care less "effective". They also don't factor in how many advanced diseases, especially cancer, can be treated here in the US but not in other countries.

[GreecePwns]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

[Night Strike]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

And because everything is subsidized, you have riots when things have to be cut due to rising costs. Entitlement society at its finest.

[Phatscotty]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

and...where did that overall concept get Greece? Last I heard you guys needed a bailout, blood is running in the streets, politicians are being stoned, there are strikes everywhere and harsh austerity measures are being enforced by foreign powers while they make cuts to this glorious systems while simultaneously raising taxes.

Where am I wrong there?

[GreecePwns]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

And because everything is subsidized, you have riots when things have to be cut due to rising costs. Entitlement society at its finest.

Are you going to tell me how Greek society works now? Things have to be cut because of the cronyism that existed in government. Greece's problems come from insane corruption during the New Democracy (conservative) government when it comes to audits. Big businesses can get away with paying off auditors and come out paying 20 percent of what they should. The government doesn't get the revenue it needs to help pay for these things, and after an election that brings PASOK into power promising an end to it, they take it out on the public with this austerity EU cock-in-mouth measure. They have a right to riot in the streets about this.

Please don't act like an expert on things I've lived through. You don't know shit about this.

[GreecePwns]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

and...where did that overall concept get Greece? Last I heard you guys needed a bailout, blood is running in the streets, politicians are being stoned, there are strikes everywhere and harsh austerity measures are being enforced by foreign powers while they make cuts to this glorious systems while simultaneously raising taxes.

Where am I wrong there?

And where has that concept gotten Scandinavia? or France? or Germany?

[Phatscotty]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

and...where did that overall concept get Greece? Last I heard you guys needed a bailout, blood is running in the streets, politicians are being stoned, there are strikes everywhere and harsh austerity measures are being enforced by foreign powers while they make cuts to this glorious systems while simultaneously raising taxes.

Where am I wrong there?

And where has that concept gotten Scandinavia? or France? or Germany?

That's a dodge, but you are a good sport. and please don't dismiss population realities. So sick of people saying "yeah but this country of 28 million people can do it!" Not to mention, to do a lot of these things goes against American culture.

[GreecePwns]

Were the taxpayers of Greece subsidizing your relatives surgery? The building? The doctors taking side money? any more details?

Being a citizen and resident of Greece here on vacation here he is included in those subsidizing his treatment. In Greece (whose system ranks 11th in the world as opposed to the US's 37th) everything is subsidized, except accessories like dentures and glasses and non-essential/cosmetic treatments.

and...where did that overall concept get Greece? Last I heard you guys needed a bailout, blood is running in the streets, politicians are being stoned, there are strikes everywhere and harsh austerity measures are being enforced by foreign powers while they make cuts to this glorious systems while simultaneously raising taxes.

Where am I wrong there?

And where has that concept gotten Scandinavia? or France? or Germany?

That's a dodge, but you are a good sport.

Not a dodge if you read my above post. ND getting in bed with business got Greece here, not an "entitlement society." But that's okay, tell me how my country works. You two are really out of your depth here.

[Phatscotty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rshdJZruH_0

seeing is believing.

you telling me you guys don't have to make cuts? doesnt need a bailout? blood is not in the streets? a politician wasnt stoned? the strikes do not make life worse for everyone? austerity is not being forced by foreign countries? yes/no will suffice, and we can take them one at a time. just tell me where I'm wrong

[Phatscotty]

and be objective for one second. flip that Greek riot video around, and pretend they are waving Gadsden flags and call themselves the Tea Party. OMG OMG that country f'n sucks look at those freaks....right?

[GreecePwns]

I didn't deny any of that was happening. You're right in saying that. You're wrong in assuming that this is all because of excessive spending. That system that the countries I mentioned also use isn't what brought Greece here.The Greek government would be running a surplus if it weren't for cronyism in the ND government before the collapse.

And your Tea Party case would be comparable if say, the Tea Party politicians voted for government takeover of healthcare. A newly-elected democratic socialist party voted for austerity. They have a right to riot.

But, really, keep going. It's getting rather comical now.

[Phatscotty]

I didn't deny any of that was happening. You're right in saying that people are rioting and that EU You're wrong in assuming that this is all because of excessive spending. The Greek government would be running a surplus if it weren't for cronyism in the ND government before the collapse.

And your Tea Party case would be comparable if say, the Tea Party politicians voted for government takeover of healthcare. A newly-elected democratic socialist party voted for austerity. They have a right to riot.

But, really, keep going. It's getting rather comical now.

well, there it is, the main point. Your government now does not have a say, if that is what I understood by your comment "they have a right to riot" Is that incorrect?

[GreecePwns]

I didn't deny any of that was happening. You're right in saying that people are rioting and that EU You're wrong in assuming that this is all because of excessive spending. The Greek government would be running a surplus if it weren't for cronyism in the ND government before the collapse.

And your Tea Party case would be comparable if say, the Tea Party politicians voted for government takeover of healthcare. A newly-elected democratic socialist party voted for austerity. They have a right to riot.

But, really, keep going. It's getting rather comical now.

well, there it is, the main point. Your government now does not have a say, if that is what I understood by your comment "they have a right to riot" Is that incorrect?

Not a constitutional right, a moral right. Let me make things simpler for you.

Start: New Democracy budget predicts surplus.
1: Government gets in bed with businesses and tax revenue isn't collected. Another scandal involving a land deal with monastary costing taxpayers 100 million euros.
2: Scandals uncovered, PASOK takes power.
3: Economy tanks shortly after due to scandals mentioned in point 1.
4: Next election gives PASOK greater majority.
5: PASOK takes austerity route, screwing the public over for what happened in point 1.

[Phatscotty]

so, businesses ruined Greece? along with the politicians they corrupted. Is that all?

[GreecePwns]

so, businesses ruined Greece? along with the politicians they corrupted. Is that all?

And having the public take the suffering for it is reason to riot.

[Phatscotty]

Here dude, I bestow to you the source of my strength. Lord knows it has helped me on many an occasion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ You guys need it now more than ever

Just curious, what do you do when the riots and the strikes are hittin? Are you in the streets?

[GreecePwns]

Here dude, I bestow to you the source of my strength. Lord knows it has helped me on many an occasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ You guys need it now more than ever
Just curious, what do you do when the riots and the strikes are hittin? Are you in the streets?

I am in the US for college right now, but I'd certainly be in the streets.

[Phatscotty]

Here dude, I bestow to you the source of my strength. Lord knows it has helped me on many an occasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ You guys need it now more than ever
Just curious, what do you do when the riots and the strikes are hittin? Are you in the streets?

I am in the US for college right now, but I'd certainly be in the streets.

In your opinion, does Greece have a spending problem? or is it just the revenue side?

[GreecePwns]

Here dude, I bestow to you the source of my strength. Lord knows it has helped me on many an occasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ You guys need it now more than ever
Just curious, what do you do when the riots and the strikes are hittin? Are you in the streets?

I am in the US for college right now, but I'd certainly be in the streets.

In your opinion, does Greece have a spending problem? or is it just the revenue side?

Considering the budget as it was should've led to a surplus, it was the revenue side in Greece's case. The loss of nearly a third of tax income to corruption was devastating.

[Phatscotty]

Here dude, I bestow to you the source of my strength. Lord knows it has helped me on many an occasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ You guys need it now more than ever
Just curious, what do you do when the riots and the strikes are hittin? Are you in the streets?

I am in the US for college right now, but I'd certainly be in the streets.

In your opinion, does Greece have a spending problem? or is it just the revenue side?

Considering the budget as it was should've led to a surplus, it was the revenue side in Greece's case. The loss of nearly a third of tax income to corruption was devastating.

how big a role did the global recession play? How big of any impact?

[GreecePwns]

Here dude, I bestow to you the source of my strength. Lord knows it has helped me on many an occasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ You guys need it now more than ever
Just curious, what do you do when the riots and the strikes are hittin? Are you in the streets?

I am in the US for college right now, but I'd certainly be in the streets.

In your opinion, does Greece have a spending problem? or is it just the revenue side?

Considering the budget as it was should've led to a surplus, it was the revenue side in Greece's case. The loss of nearly a third of tax income to corruption was devastating.

how big a role did the global recession play? How big of any impact?

I would say the two are of equal impact, since the recession hit the tourism industry hard, adding to the already massive deficit due to the tax evasions.

[GreecePwns]

I would contend that without the scandals, we'd be talking about SIP economies, not PIGS.