Religion of peace wants death for French first lady

[tzor]

Which Muslims do people notice? The fucking crazy bat shit insane ones.

That's because it is the crazy bat shit ones that are in charge, and the rest are all keeping their mouths shut. The Muslim world should be the first ones to shout down the crazy ones, but they do not! And don't give me the lame excuse of the gigantic fifteen story project near ground zero as a example of the nice ones. I trust the extreemist shit that comes from Saudi Arabia about as much as the extreemist shit that comes from Iran.

And I've never said or implied that all Muslims are at fault. There are a few who do speak out; they tend to get death sentences, however.

[Baron Von PWN]

lol Tzor you are getting seriously pathetic. You are taking the extreme leaders of the more strict and fundamentalist sect of Islam (not even the largest one) and applying that view to the whole religion.

Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎ Shī‘ah, sometimes Shi'a or Shi'ite), is the second-largest denomination of Islam, comprising anywhere between 10% or one-tenth to 13% of the total Muslim population in the world. Shia Muslims—though a minority in the Muslim world—constitute the majority of the populations in Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Iran, and Iraq, as well as a plurality in Lebanon and Yemen.

As stated above, an estimate of approximately 10–13% of the world's Muslims are Shi'a, which corresponds to about 130–190 million Shi'a Muslims worldwide. Shi'a Muslims also constitute over 30% of the population in Lebanon, over 45% of the population in Yemen, over 35% of the population in Kuwait, 20–25% of the population (primarily Alevi) in Turkey, 20% (primarily Bektashi) of the population in Albania, 20% of the population in Pakistan and 20% of population in Afghanistan. They also make up at least 25%-31% of the Muslim populations in India, 15-20% in the United Arab Emirates, Syria and Saudi Arabia, although the total number is difficult to estimate due to the intermingling between the two groups and practice of taqiyya by Shiites.

Shi'a Islam is divided into three branches. The largest and best known are the Twelver (اثنا عشرية iṯnāʿašariyya), named after their adherence to the Twelve Imams. They form a majority of the population in Iran, Azerbaijan, Bahrain and Iraq. Other smaller branches include the Ismaili and Zaidi, who dispute the Twelver lineage of Imams and beliefs.

The Twelver Shi'a faith is predominantly found in Iran (90%) , Azerbaijan (85%), Bahrain (75%), Iraq (65%), Lebanon (35%),[21] Kuwait (35%), Albania (20%), Pakistan (20%), Afghanistan (20%). and India (25%-31%) of its Muslim population.

So they are not the biggest. Doesn't mean they can be dismissed. Especially after Iran gets nukes.

It is a small portion of even that more conservative brand of Islam which pushes such radicalism. You can't even attribute such views to a significant portion of Shia Islam.

[Baron Von PWN]

Which Muslims do people notice? The fucking crazy bat shit insane ones.

That's because it is the crazy bat shit ones that are in charge, and the rest are all keeping their mouths shut. The Muslim world should be the first ones to shout down the crazy ones, but they do not! And don't give me the lame excuse of the gigantic fifteen story project near ground zero as a example of the nice ones. I trust the extreemist shit that comes from Saudi Arabia about as much as the extreemist shit that comes from Iran.

And I've never said or implied that all Muslims are at fault. There are a few who do speak out; they tend to get death sentences, however.

Even this isn't true, most of the Muslim world is run by secular non theocratic governments. Off the top of my head Muslim countries with theocratic/heavily influenced governments : Iran, Saudi Arabia, Gaza, maybe some of the other gulf states. These countries represent something like 10-20% of the global Muslim population and I suspect I am being very generous.

There are plenty who speak out, and many governments of Muslim countries actively seek and destroy Islamic terrorist groups/ political organizations (they represent a threat to their power). Besides Muslims don't have to apologize for crazy people who believe some very different things.

Yes you have, "Religion of Peace"= Islam so you are suggesting the whole of Islam is supporting the Ayatollah.

[Army of GOD]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

A serious post from AOG!?

it's not just a few. infidels are still beheaded in front of crowds. women are still stoned. hands are still cut off. Womens rights, just forget about it. Thats the way they want to live, that is their business. That is not the way we live.

Obviously, with 10,000+ mosques in our country, we are not the ones with the problem and there is no lack of tolerance in America and have many people trying to build more and more and more mosques and spread their faith everyday without fear. It's called freedom.

If they can not be tolerant, and they can't get over how we live our lives, and they think they need to change us, well, then, we are going to have a fight. It is up to Islam to figure out what kind of religion they are going to be. I would only argue they have never been anything other than what they have almost always been, and they do not have a lot working in favor of a positive image now.

Everytime we get whacked, we are going to try to the best of our ability to hold those accountable who are responsible. Corruption, elitism, bankers, lobbyists, campaign donors are not going away any time soon. maybe we can try to cut that back, perhaps by electing HONEST people??? I know republicans and democrats do not have a clue as to how...

I also think we need major foreign policy change. We have failed and interefered too much in the middle east. We needto take responsibility, except my country keep electing EXPERT LIARS. I know the republicans didn't get it. It is painfully clear the Democrats do not get it. I am going to explore more how the Tea party feels about it.

Ultimately, the American people are at fault, in the end. We keep sending them back to congress, election after election....All it takes is some back bone and for people to get involved and support the kind of people who say they will put their life on the line to make these changes. someone who is not interested in money or power.

"Muslims" aren't cutting off the hands of people and stoning women and whatever, theocratic governments are. Other governments do this without any religion at all.

I agree with the policy change. I personally think the UN has to start going balls out so that we don't have to play world police. This whole Iran vs. Israel thing sucks and will probably end in a war...hopefully non-nuclear.

[The Bison King]

OH BOY!!!!! Another thread by Tzor trying to get me to hate Muslims!!!! I can't even wait to not give a f*ck!

[Army of GOD]

Also, scotty, I'm chock full of serious posts!

It's kinda like Where's Waldo? You just gotta look hard.

[BigBallinStalin]

Let's step back for a moment...

The main three questions for tzor is:

What have you learned from this?

Did you see where you went wrong in your logic?

Is you trollin, son?

[heavycola]

There are a few who do speak out; they tend to get death sentences, however.

Congratulations tzor, you mad bastard! This is officially the most ridiculous statement you have ever posted on these forums!

[Army of GOD]

Good job tzor!

I got mine a few months ago.

[Metsfanmax]

If they can not be tolerant, and they can't get over how we live our lives, and they think they need to change us, well, then, we are going to have a fight. It is up to Islam to figure out what kind of religion they are going to be. I would only argue they have never been anything other than what they have almost always been, and they do not have a lot working in favor of a positive image now.

I am patriotic, but let's get one thing straight here. The way groups like al Qaeda see it, and they do have a point, is that our inability to be tolerant of other peoples' choices (i.e. our decision to "liberate" certain populations) is what started the fight in the first place - and they're just fighting back. Iraq and Afghanistan simply proved the point - neither of those countries posed a serious pragmatic threat to the US, yet we overthrew the governments of both countries. We are just as guilty as they are of using violence as a coercive tool for changing behavior.

[HapSmo19]

Religion of peace calls for beheading of Dutch politician

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_ ... ch_wilders

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) – A well-known Australian Muslim cleric has called for the beheading of Dutch anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilders, a newspaper said on Friday.
Wilders' Freedom Party scored the biggest gains in June 9 polls and is currently negotiating to form a new minority government with the Liberals and Christian Democrats. Polls show Wilders would win a new election if one were called now.
Wilders demanded to know why he had learnt about the threat from the newspaper and not from Dutch authorities who are guarding him after a film and remarks he made angered Muslims around the world.
De Telegraaf, the Netherlands' largest newspaper, led its front page on Friday with a story on the speech by Feiz Muhammad.
The Sydney-born Muhammad has gained notoriety for, among other things, calling on young children to be radicalized and blaming rape victims for their own attacks.
The paper posted an English-language audio clip in which he refers to Wilders as "this Satan, this devil, this politician in Holland" and explains that anyone who talks about Islam like Wilders does should be executed by beheading.
De Telegraaf did not say when the speech was given but said it and the Dutch secret service both had copies. According to his website, Muhammad is based in Malaysia.
Wilders told Reuters it was "really terrible news" and that he was taking it seriously.
"I will ask for clarification from the Dutch minister of interior/justice why the secret service and anti-terrorism unit NCTb have not informed me before and what the consequences will be for me," he said in an email.
A spokesman for the Dutch secret service referred inquiries on the threat to the NCTb. A spokeswoman for the NCTb was not available to comment.
Wilders is currently on trial in the Netherlands for inciting hatred and discrimination against Muslims.
The Freedom Party leader made a film in 2008 which accused the Koran of inciting violence and mixed images of terrorist attacks with quotations from the Islamic holy book.
Wilders was also charged because of outspoken remarks in the media, such as an opinion piece in a Dutch daily in which he compared Islam to fascism and the Koran to Adolf Hitler's book "Mein Kampf."
Of late he has been in the news for plans to speak out against a planned mosque in New York City on September 11, the ninth anniversary of the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.
But his views have also made him extremely popular with a segment of the country uneasy about the Netherlands' commitment to multiculturalism.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[BigBallinStalin]

Yeah, those hateful extremist views can be useful in popularity contests.

I think Hitler did the same thing there--wanting to enact laws against a specific minority based on their religious beliefs. This guy Geert Wilders even has the equivalent of a Triumph of the Will film expounding his views. All he needs is to do now is serve a little jail time and write down his views, and we'll have a pretty good match of an early Hitler.

Sounds like a great guy!


__________________________________________________
Let's compare:

REASONABLE: "Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician" (original article name)

TROLLING: "Religion of peace calls for beheading of Dutch politician"

[tzor]

Good job tzor!

I got mine a few months ago.

Oh no, now you made me look ...

Oooooh, a gold star. Adric had a gold star as well.

Did you know that if you rub gold on the breathing apparatus of a Cyber-man you can kill them?


And heavycola does remind me of a cyber-man at times, you don’t think?

[Snorri1234]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

You can't simply blame the religion, you have to blame religion itself. The argument that it's Christianity that is and has been the force for good and enlightenment is absurd, it's such obvious bollocks that a 6 year old child sees it. Religion is the problem, it has always been a problem. Talk about "corrupting the faith" and "extremist exceptions" misses the point, that type of shit is a natural consequence of believing in magic sky-men who follow you as if you are special.

"Religion of peace" is an oxymoron, religions are really only ever peaceful if most religious people pay little attention to the actual requirements of that religion.

[Maugena]

Did questioning your own faith give you a brain tumor? :O

[brooksieb]

I think it's fair to say Islam is a backwards religion, I can't think of one Muslim country that does not live in the third world. (Or developing world as the PC term is now) Even if the state is rich, or does have Nuclear weaponry (As in the case of Pakistan) a huge percentage live in poverty.

That does not mean to say we should intervene ourselves in the affairs of the Islamic world, and try and enforce 'democracy' on those inhabitants, many seem happy living the way they are and we should not disturb that (For example The Afghan people showling a large amount of support for the Taliban).

This leads me on to conclude Iran's internal and domestic affairs should be left well alone. Iran can build Nuclear weapons if she wants to, but they must face the consequences of them doing so (An Israeli Pre Emptive Strike). All in all we should steer clear of the Islamic affairs in the Middle east and concentrate on our own problem of Islam here.

[tzor]

You can't simply blame the religion, you have to blame religion itself. The argument that it's Christianity that is and has been the force for good and enlightenment is absurd, it's such obvious bollocks that a 6 year old child sees it. Religion is the problem, it has always been a problem. Talk about "corrupting the faith" and "extremist exceptions" misses the point, that type of shit is a natural consequence of believing in magic sky-men who follow you as if you are special.

Snorri is one of the best examples of why "athiesm" is a mental disorder. Fundamentalism often puts blinders over reason and the strong athiests are basically a fundamentalist sect in their hatred of all things religious. Of course they will never realize or admit this, neither will religious fundamentalists. The fact that their logic is so full of crap that even a 6 year old sees it, only makes the irony of this possible.

[tzor]

I think it's fair to say Islam is a backwards religion, I can't think of one Muslim country that does not live in the third world.

First of all, the "third world" was a term for those nations that were not sided with either the US or the USSR during the cold war. The question of "developing" is a complex question.

Indonesia (pronounced /ˌɪndoʊˈniːziə/ or /ˌɪndəˈniːʒə/), officially the Republic of Indonesia (Indonesian: Republik Indonesia), is a country in Southeast Asia and Oceania. Indonesia comprises 17,508 islands. With a population of around 230 million people, it is the world's fourth most populous country, and has the world's largest population of Muslims. Indonesia is a republic, with an elected legislature and president. The nation's capital city is Jakarta. The country shares land borders with Papua New Guinea, East Timor, and Malaysia. Other neighboring countries include Singapore, Philippines, Australia, and the Indian territory of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Indonesia is a founding member of ASEAN and a member of the G-20 major economies.

I would find it hard to say a member of the G-20 is "developing" or "third world."

[john9blue]

You can't simply blame the religion, you have to blame religion itself. The argument that it's Christianity that is and has been the force for good and enlightenment is absurd, it's such obvious bollocks that a 6 year old child sees it. Religion is the problem, it has always been a problem. Talk about "corrupting the faith" and "extremist exceptions" misses the point, that type of shit is a natural consequence of believing in magic sky-men who follow you as if you are special.

"Religion of peace" is an oxymoron, religions are really only ever peaceful if most religious people pay little attention to the actual requirements of that religion.

So you think religion CANNOT be good? Which atheist leader fed you that line?

[Snorri1234]

You can't simply blame the religion, you have to blame religion itself. The argument that it's Christianity that is and has been the force for good and enlightenment is absurd, it's such obvious bollocks that a 6 year old child sees it. Religion is the problem, it has always been a problem. Talk about "corrupting the faith" and "extremist exceptions" misses the point, that type of shit is a natural consequence of believing in magic sky-men who follow you as if you are special.

"Religion of peace" is an oxymoron, religions are really only ever peaceful if most religious people pay little attention to the actual requirements of that religion.

So you think religion CANNOT be good? Which atheist leader fed you that line?

A religious person can be good, they can even be good because they take their religions' lessons and apply them. But in almost all cases a person is good despite their religion, not because of it. Religion has good people do good and bad people do bad, but it can make good people do bad.

Things like empathy and kindness are not dependent on religion, unless you're claiming that without religion you'd start stabbing motherfuckers when you feel like it.

[Snorri1234]

You can't simply blame the religion, you have to blame religion itself. The argument that it's Christianity that is and has been the force for good and enlightenment is absurd, it's such obvious bollocks that a 6 year old child sees it. Religion is the problem, it has always been a problem. Talk about "corrupting the faith" and "extremist exceptions" misses the point, that type of shit is a natural consequence of believing in magic sky-men who follow you as if you are special.

Snorri is one of the best examples of why "athiesm" is a mental disorder. Fundamentalism often puts blinders over reason and the strong athiests are basically a fundamentalist sect in their hatred of all things religious. Of course they will never realize or admit this, neither will religious fundamentalists. The fact that their logic is so full of crap that even a 6 year old sees it, only makes the irony of this possible.

O lol. Try spelling Atheism correctly next time.


Also, try being less of a condescending prick next time. It will help you see the fundamental irrationality of your position. Just because you somehow rationalized the crazy bullshit in your holy book away doesn't mean it isn't there.


I noticed that you went immediately to saying I must have a mental disorder instead of showing how awesome religion has been for the world.

[Phatscotty]

So you are basically saying that Islam is such a "recent" religion, we have to give it a lot of slack? I'm sorry, but no amount of additional years will help Islam; it is stuck in the age that gave it birth. Other religions somehow managed to grow with the times, even relgions that are younger than Islam.

I and I don't recall sucking any Christian nuts. I'm allergic to nuts.

I'm not saying we have to cut it slack, I'm just saying don't blame the religion because a few fucked up people use it for a reason to gain power/kill people they don't like.

A serious post from AOG!?

it's not just a few. infidels are still beheaded in front of crowds. women are still stoned. hands are still cut off. Womens rights, just forget about it. Thats the way they want to live, that is their business. That is not the way we live.

Obviously, with 10,000+ mosques in our country, we are not the ones with the problem and there is no lack of tolerance in America and have many people trying to build more and more and more mosques and spread their faith everyday without fear. It's called freedom.

If they can not be tolerant, and they can't get over how we live our lives, and they think they need to change us, well, then, we are going to have a fight. It is up to Islam to figure out what kind of religion they are going to be. I would only argue they have never been anything other than what they have almost always been, and they do not have a lot working in favor of a positive image now.

Which Muslims do people notice? The fucking crazy bat shit insane ones. How often do we hear about the Azerbijanis, Kahzaks, Turkmen, Indonesians, Turks, Morocans ect doing something nuts? What Tzor and others have shown on these fora is a pretty serious selection bias. They only pay attention to muslims who reinforce their view that muslims are dangerous murderers. Muslims who speak out against terrorist or wish to promote more moderate islam in say a community center are accused of secretly being extremists in favor of killing every single westerner.

Honestly, I would bet the first reference that people flash to in their heads is Muslim History. I don't think they/we don't chop it up by borders that are protecting by national armies in the name of resources and tax bases.

[brooksieb]

I think it's fair to say Islam is a backwards religion, I can't think of one Muslim country that does not live in the third world.

First of all, the "third world" was a term for those nations that were not sided with either the US or the USSR during the cold war. The question of "developing" is a complex question.

Indonesia (pronounced /ˌɪndoʊˈniːziə/ or /ˌɪndəˈniːʒə/), officially the Republic of Indonesia (Indonesian: Republik Indonesia), is a country in Southeast Asia and Oceania. Indonesia comprises 17,508 islands. With a population of around 230 million people, it is the world's fourth most populous country, and has the world's largest population of Muslims. Indonesia is a republic, with an elected legislature and president. The nation's capital city is Jakarta. The country shares land borders with Papua New Guinea, East Timor, and Malaysia. Other neighboring countries include Singapore, Philippines, Australia, and the Indian territory of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Indonesia is a founding member of ASEAN and a member of the G-20 major economies.

I would find it hard to say a member of the G-20 is "developing" or "third world."

Well it's fair to say many of the third world countries were in poverty, so that is why 'third world' is often linked to 'poverty', and in the case of Indonesia, it has a good economy, but that does not excuse the fact vast amounts of people in Indonesia live in poverty.

[tzor]

O lol. Try spelling Atheism correctly next time.


Also, try being less of a condescending prick next time. It will help you see the fundamental irrationality of your position. Just because you somehow rationalized the crazy bullshit in your holy book away doesn't mean it isn't there.


I noticed that you went immediately to saying I must have a mental disorder instead of showing how awesome religion has been for the world.

I’m trying this on Word 2007 so you can’t complain no more.

Listen Snorri, I’ve been trying badly for more years than you have probably been alive, and I will continue to type badly. Now can we get back to the subject at hand.

You are the one who is insisting, against all logic and reason that all religion, any possible religion, every religion that has existed, currently exists, and may yet exist is bad. This blanket assertion simply defies all logic, but since you have never given a reason for your assertion, apparently didn’t need any.

You have insisted that the belief in something that cannot be proved appatently corrupts that person. You have insisted that it can make good people do bad but not bad people doing good. Neither of these assertions appears to have any basis of fact. This is common of the delusional strong athiest, or rather the Fundamentalist Athiest.

[john9blue]

You are the one who is insisting, against all logic and reason that all religion, any possible religion, every religion that has existed, currently exists, and may yet exist is bad. This blanket assertion simply defies all logic, but since you have never given a reason for your assertion, apparently didn’t need any.

he doesn't need proof, the burden of proof lies on you

You have insisted that the belief in something that cannot be proved appatently corrupts that person. You have insisted that it can make good people do bad but not bad people doing good. Neither of these assertions appears to have any basis of fact. This is common of the delusional strong athiest, or rather the Fundamentalist Athiest.

he doesn't need proof, the burden of proof lies on you

man that was easy! no wonder so many people are becoming atheists!