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Violent 8 year old maced

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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:13 am

Looks like I never submitted my earlier post.

Mr_Adams wrote:Who says a normal kid won't act that way?
I do.
and yes, in this I do know of what I speak!

Mr_Adams wrote:Children from unstructured homes have a tendency to react with volition towards situations which don't go their way, if they have that chemical make up.
YOu mix two different situations/problems.

Kids from unstructured homes (including homes with very poor parenting skills and those you might call "liberal" who just don't want as many rules in their house) are going to react negatively to heavy structure suddenly imposed. HOWEVER, a normal child will accept and adapt pretty quickly, as long as the rules are reasonable and within their developmental capabilities.

However, kids brains differ just like kid's physical abilities. You would not tell a child with a major leg issue "too bad.. I expect you to just go run that 50 year dash like all the other kids and if you cannot, then you are obviously just being lazy". I mean, sure, some kids who have limps might well be able to do that. However, most won't. Some kids with leg issues will get therapy, may even eventually wind up as Olympic track stars. They key words are "eventually" and "some".

Because brain injuries/problems are not as visually obvious as a limp or missing limb, because teachers are busy, it is far too easy to just dismiss the child who is acting out as just a "bad kid", which is exactly what your first response implied.

I will take ADHD, for example. It varies, but the basics are that while you and I focus on a blackboard or book, these kids see that.. and the birds chirping, and the kid tapping his foot, and ... the other kid wiggling in his chair.. etc, etc etc. Their brain does not have the ability to filter out all those other things.

Can they be taught to filter? Generally, yes. Sometimes medication helps. However, "slapping" the kid does not change their brain chemistry. Many times it won't even motivate them, it will simply make them rebellious. Remember, these are kids and, on top of the above, often kids with poor coping skills.

A GOOD teacher finds ways to deal with things. If a child is in a wheelchair, they use ramps. If a child has ADHD, maybe they need to sort things while the teacher is talking, to squeeze a ball, or simply have their attention directly all around the room -- to various bulletin boards, etc. A good teacher says "hey, this child is learning, and as long as they are not disturbing the class, I can deal with it". A poor teacher demands that the child "face the front, hands in the lap, feet on the ground".. and gets angry, gives consequences for any non compliance. Guess what, that poor teacher has a MASS of behavior problems!

Often just taking kids outside more, letting them get more physical goes a LONG way toward helping. Yet.. guess what a lot of schools are eliminating as "extra" or even "not safe"? Field trips, gym, anything outdoors.

I will give you an example. When my son was four, I would ask him to clean his room. Now, some kids can do that just fine. However, many 5 year olds get overwhelmed when faced with a whole room "to clean". They just don't even know where to start. So, with my son, I would tell him to "pick up 5 things". Sometimes it would work, but... ,more often than not, I would face hours of flat out, kicking and screaming on the ground tantrum. NOTHING I did would get him to pick up. I won't bore you with the entire littany, but at one point I found myself having grounded him from everything (TV, his favorite activities, etc, etc) for a month along with spanking. It did not work! I HATE the idea of medicine, but had to face the fact that my son needed medications. The difference was night and day. My son was still a very active, not perfectly behaved by any means little boy. BUT, he actually responded to punishment, etc.

Now, years later, he is able to focus. I still get a bit worse than usual reaction when I tell him to do chores, but I have to pick my battles. And, I have to accept that a 10 year old boy is just not going to always sweep the floor with perfection.. and praise him when he does a "reasonable" effort instead of criticizing him because he left a corner undone. (as long as I have not specifically told him to do that corner, which would mean it is defiance, not lack of attention to detail).

I do not know enough about the particular situation to know exactly what needs to be done. However, to have let the situation descend to where the police should have been called was insane. This school was plain refusing to deal with the problem.

It could be that this child just needs better management in school, needs to have a "flexible" teacher instead of a strict one. OR, maybe he is a child who needs more structure. (both can be true, it just depends on the child). Maybe he needs some medication, so his brain chemistry approaches normal, so he can actually focus and learn what he needs to do along with therapy to help him not need medication in the future. (simple growth/maturiy can improve things.. but the medication is often needed to keep the child on track). OR, maybe this child needs something full-time. Things have to be done at home as well.





Mr_Adams wrote: Its like a married man saying his hormones tell him to chase after other women. He doesn't because he has learned that it isn't right. This kid needs to be taught that reacting with violence isn't right. If he is some how disabled, it may be harder for him to learn than others, but he needs to learn the lesson, and not punishing that kind of behavior is NOT going to help.

Again, think of the child with the limp. Do you punish the child for not running the 50 yard dash? Or do you accept that "hey, maybe someday this child will be able to do that, but for now.. we will let him/her walk/limp. And, note in that that not every child in a wheel chair will be able to ever walk.

Here is the really critical part about this. School is about training kids for life. Sometimes it seems we forget that, especially in early years. Too many schools see thier job as teaching kids to survive in school-- just in school. Except, school is not life. The skills you need to do well in school are not necessarily always the ones you need to succeed in life.

Almost anything can be either a positive or a negative. Take ADHD. It is a royal pain to have an ADHD child in a class, particularly if you are a teacher who likes rules, like things "just so", etc. Yet... that same "distractability" that makes it hard in a standard classroom is a big advantage if you are an airplane pilot (to name one example). So, is the school really and truly doing the child a favor by demanding that they train themselves to focus for hours on end on one book? OR, should the focus, instead be on certainly making sure the child has a basic literal fluency, etc. However, teaching that child to do things that require shorter attention spans, teaching him to not just see his issues as a "problem", but to find that "niche" in life he can fill?
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby Serbia on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:08 am

Player, can you PLEASE stop trolling? Aye vay.
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Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:30 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh, that's right... you think brain injuries are just "liberal fictions".



This kid had no brain injury. enough with your red herring tactics.

Fetch the mace. We can brain injure both him and the mother.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby 40kguy on Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:02 pm

thats completly bull what the cops did, like the lady said tackle him and hold him still. he will calm down, do it all the time with my little brother who is 40lbs less then me and is 4 years younger then me.
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Postby 2dimes on Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:09 pm

The future belongs to you Amber Portwood.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby natty dread on Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:59 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Hey, no problem! Let's just apply the Mr Adams method and give both the boy and the mother a Proper Beating™! That should solve everything.


Are we done with the demagoguery?


I'm pretty sure that's not a real word.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:07 pm

You're not a real word.










Also, the first time I read the title I thought it meant maced, not maced.

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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby Commander62890 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:41 pm

Is this kid Aidan on the autism spectrum?


My bro is 14 and on the autism spectrum. He has his "outbursts" at home, against myself and my parents.

He enters this sort of animalistic state in which he can't speak words, and anything you do or say to him will make him scream. He literally growls at us and stares at us with total hatred as he smashes our stuff.

He destroys whatever he can with his hands and his body. Physically restraining him is difficult, and will only make the situation worse, as he enters "fight or flight" mode and truly goes berserk. He knows, however, that if he harms us in any way, we're calling the police on him. That has worked as an effective deterrent... so far.

He has picked up a knife on a few occasions, but has not used it.

He tells my parents he's going to kill them on a daily basis, though.


That's just a quick summary.

So what I'm trying to say is, my bro is probably a lot like this kid, but with more support from parents (and his outbursts are at home and not school).
Last edited by Commander62890 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby radiojake on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:46 pm

Commander62890 wrote:Is this kid Aidan on the autism spectrum?


My bro is 14 and on the autism spectrum. He has his "outbursts" at home, against myself and my parents.

He enters this sort of animalistic state in which he can't speak words, and anything you do or say to him will make him scream.

He destroys whatever he can with his hands and his body. Physically restraining him is difficult, and will only make the situation worse, as he enters "fight or flight" mode and truly goes berserk. He knows, however, that if he harms us in any way, we're calling the police on him. That has worked as an effective deterrent... so far.

He has picked up a knife on a few occasions, but has not used it.

He tells my parents he's going to kill them on a daily basis, though.


That's just a quick summary.

So what I'm trying to say is, my bro is probably a lot like this kid, but with more support from parents (and his outbursts are at home and not school).


That is unfortunate to hear - I wonder whether or not you think, in your humble opinion given your experience, that Mr Adams' solution of giving him a decent belting will simply do the trick?
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby Commander62890 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:49 pm

Of course not. I have no experience with "normal" siblings, so I cannot say whether or not it would work for them.

But beating autistic kids is a great way to f*ck them up... for life.

You need to help them get through the rough teenage years so they can become functional adults.
With the right treatment, and some luck, many of them can calm down as adults.

That's what I'm hoping will happen with Ben.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby radiojake on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:54 pm

Commander62890 wrote:Of course not. I have no experience with "normal" siblings, so I cannot say whether or not it would work for them.

But beating autistic kids is a great way to f*ck them up... for life.

You need to help them get through the rough teenage years so they can become functional adults.
With the right treatment, and some luck, many of them can calm down as adults.

That's what I'm hoping will happen with Ben.


Good luck with that all - I have a slightly autistic cousin, and although he rarely ever gets violent, he definately was a handful when he was younger.

I don't happen to think 'beatings' solve anything, I just hope Mr Adams sees your response.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:43 pm

Serbia wrote:Player, can you PLEASE stop trolling? Aye vay.

If you consider a reasoned, educated response to idiocy to be "trolling" ..too bad. its you who needs to change, not I.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:44 pm

Commander62890 wrote:Is this kid Aidan on the autism spectrum?

There is not enough info int he publicity to say. It could be in that range or any number of any other issues.

It is clear this kid is outside the normal range right now.. for whatever reason.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby AAFitz on Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:52 pm

radiojake wrote:
Commander62890 wrote:Of course not. I have no experience with "normal" siblings, so I cannot say whether or not it would work for them.

But beating autistic kids is a great way to f*ck them up... for life.

You need to help them get through the rough teenage years so they can become functional adults.
With the right treatment, and some luck, many of them can calm down as adults.

That's what I'm hoping will happen with Ben.


Good luck with that all - I have a slightly autistic cousin, and although he rarely ever gets violent, he definately was a handful when he was younger.

I don't happen to think 'beatings' solve anything, I just hope Mr Adams sees your response.


It was indeed a powerful story, and one that certainly commands respect for him sharing. As far as Mr Adams seeing it however, it is unlikely he will see the story for what it is however, on account of his fondness for beating.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby DangerBoy on Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:57 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Serbia wrote:Player, can you PLEASE stop trolling? Aye vay.

If you consider a reasoned, educated response to idiocy to be "trolling" ..too bad. its you who needs to change, not I.


:lol:

Yes, anyone who disagrees is by default spouting idiocy while Player only gives out reasoned, educated responses.

I'm surprised pimpdave hasn't come in here linking evidence to the Tea Party :lol:
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby AAFitz on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:12 pm

DangerBoy wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Serbia wrote:Player, can you PLEASE stop trolling? Aye vay.

If you consider a reasoned, educated response to idiocy to be "trolling" ..too bad. its you who needs to change, not I.


:lol:

Yes, anyone who disagrees is by default spouting idiocy while Player only gives out reasoned, educated responses.

I'm surprised pimpdave hasn't come in here linking evidence to the Tea Party :lol:


Well, in all fairness, calling her post trolling was pretty ridiculous, was it not?

I do find it laughable when the big guys act all tough picking on a woman, and pretty much because she is obviously educated, and seemingly, more than most at many times. :lol:
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby Woodruff on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:30 pm

DangerBoy wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Serbia wrote:Player, can you PLEASE stop trolling? Aye vay.

If you consider a reasoned, educated response to idiocy to be "trolling" ..too bad. its you who needs to change, not I.


:lol:

Yes, anyone who disagrees is by default spouting idiocy while Player only gives out reasoned, educated responses.


You really feel threatened by her, don't you?
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby 40kguy on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:51 pm

Commander62890 wrote:Of course not. I have no experience with "normal" siblings, so I cannot say whether or not it would work for them.

But beating autistic kids is a great way to f*ck them up... for life.

You need to help them get through the rough teenage years so they can become functional adults.
With the right treatment, and some luck, many of them can calm down as adults.

That's what I'm hoping will happen with Ben.

Like the lady said tackle him and hold him down. I think that that will do the trick most of the time. Comander I belive I told u this. And I think Adams was right, maybe not taking a belt to them but holding them down. When your brother gets angry he proablly hyprovenalates right? He wont stop forever right? This is because his stomach is spazing out and in order for it to stop you need to take deep breaths, that should calm them down a little. If they are still pist then hold them down. They will eventually calm down. I do it to my little bro, my older bro dose it to me. It is very efective. Also commander your bro is a humman bean, he has just as big of a chance of being successful as me.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby puddytat on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:46 am

Mr_Adams wrote:
puddytat wrote:Violence never really resolves anything.


Another mindless drone repeating the phrases you were brought up to repeat. When a peaceable solution is available, it is preferable, but sometimes you have to strike, and strike hard. So hard that the threat will never be able to strike back. Or, in this case, hard enough to dispel future actions.


And what makes you think that I am a drone?

Is it because I don't like violence?

You don't even know me so please refrain from making careless labels about people you have no idea about.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:25 am

omg how bad how out of order they used pepper spray. i would of used a Tazer gun on the little shit.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:33 am

Commander62890 wrote:Of course not. I have no experience with "normal" siblings, so I cannot say whether or not it would work for them.

But beating autistic kids is a great way to f*ck them up... for life.

You need to help them get through the rough teenage years so they can become functional adults.
With the right treatment, and some luck, many of them can calm down as adults.

That's what I'm hoping will happen with Ben.



my kid is the same as what you stated before. what we started doing was whenever he went off we removed his stuff mainly his computers (thats what he enjoys the most) not allowing him use of them until his behaviour improved for a few days at the minimum. it has kind of worked we have went from 2 or 3 kick offs per day down to maybe 1 per month because he knows if he kicks off he will lose what he likes. looks like your kid understands that if he hits any of you the police will be called. So maybe this would work for you 2.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby Commander62890 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:48 am

40kguy wrote:Like the lady said tackle him and hold him down. I think that that will do the trick most of the time. Comander I belive I told u this. And I think Adams was right, maybe not taking a belt to them but holding them down. When your brother gets angry he proablly hyprovenalates right? He wont stop forever right? This is because his stomach is spazing out and in order for it to stop you need to take deep breaths, that should calm them down a little. If they are still pist then hold them down. They will eventually calm down. I do it to my little bro, my older bro dose it to me. It is very efective. Also commander your bro is a humman bean, he has just as big of a chance of being successful as me.

You told me what is going on in your family, and it sounded totally different. This is not a problem with his stomach, or his breathing. This is a mental issue. If you put your hands on him, even just to hold him, it makes the situation a million times worse. He enters a animalistic frenzy and will scream and curse and try to break away. He will not calm down. The quickest way to calm him down is to ignore him and let him destroy stuff for 5-10 minutes, although we are sometimes unwilling to do that. Putting your hands on him will create a mentally and physically draining situation which will usually last about a half-hour.

eddie2 wrote:my kid is the same as what you stated before. what we started doing was whenever he went off we removed his stuff mainly his computers (thats what he enjoys the most) not allowing him use of them until his behaviour improved for a few days at the minimum. it has kind of worked we have went from 2 or 3 kick offs per day down to maybe 1 per month because he knows if he kicks off he will lose what he likes. looks like your kid understands that if he hits any of you the police will be called. So maybe this would work for you 2.

This is a more useful suggestion. We have heavily considered and debated this matter for years.

He has had privileges taken away before - what ends up happening is that he comes home from school each day and immediately starts shouting at my mother to go f*ck herself and kill herself and that he's going to stab her in the throat. It's horrible. After several days of torture, my parents usually relent. Things go back to "normal."

It is indeed a predicament. Perhaps it would work long-term, but my parents have thus far been unwilling to go through the torment it would take to reach an equilibrium. It is of course possible that he would never give up, and that would result in years of unnecessary hell for us.

It's a tough call.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:09 am

it took us about 1 month of total crap before he got used to it. but you have to be strong with it and stick to it. it will work but once he is used to it you need to make sure even if it is just a single f';k you. you must take him off the things even for one day or you go back to square 1.
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby CoffeeCream on Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:35 pm

AAFitz wrote:she is obviously educated


:roll:
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Re: Violent 8 year old maced

Postby natty dread on Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:41 am

CoffeeCream wrote:
AAFitz wrote:she is obviously educated


:roll:


Quick! Someone administer a Proper Beating. We have to cure her of this "education" thing! Women should only spew out babies from their crotch and cook dinner while men talk.
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