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Re: Russian Election

Postby Pope Joan on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:32 pm

qwert wrote:well i dont understand how US democratic elections,only alove 2 party to be in elections,and all other dont have any right. When you wote you have only 2 option, in all other democratic countries you have 10-15-20 parties to wote,and only in america,its restricted to two party. Why in america dont have more then 2 parties in elections?


It is technically not true: there are greens, libertarians, reform party etc. They just don't have an election machine or enough support to get anywhere...

BTW, only crazy places like Serbia or Israel have 20 parties. Most mature democracies have at most 4, so I don't understand your question and how it has anything to do with Russian Elections...
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Re: Russian Election

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:40 am

qwert wrote:well i dont understand how US democratic elections,only alove 2 party to be in elections,and all other dont have any right. When you wote you have only 2 option, in all other democratic countries you have 10-15-20 parties to wote,and only in america,its restricted to two party. Why in america dont have more then 2 parties in elections?


America doesn't even have two. It is a One Party state.

But anyway, with regard to Russian election, I believe Putin is correct when he says the questioning of the election results is all being done by American agents. Would the US pay attention to Russian funded "election monitoring NGOs?" Any protest that happens in Russia with regard to the election I intend to simply dismiss as a Clinton-Obama trick.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:53 am

saxitoxin wrote:
qwert wrote:well i dont understand how US democratic elections,only alove 2 party to be in elections,and all other dont have any right. When you wote you have only 2 option, in all other democratic countries you have 10-15-20 parties to wote,and only in america,its restricted to two party. Why in america dont have more then 2 parties in elections?


America doesn't even have two. It is a One Party state.

But anyway, with regard to Russian election, I believe Putin is correct when he says the questioning of the election results is all being done by American agents. Would the US pay attention to Russian funded "election monitoring NGOs?" Any protest that happens in Russia with regard to the election I intend to simply dismiss as a Clinton-Obama trick.



Actualy according to the official Russian results, the outcomes were a mathematical impossibility. A number of districts had a more than 100% turnout, Also highly suspect is Chechnya having a 99% turnout with 95% voting for united Russia.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:14 am

saxitoxin wrote:
qwert wrote:well i dont understand how US democratic elections,only alove 2 party to be in elections,and all other dont have any right. When you wote you have only 2 option, in all other democratic countries you have 10-15-20 parties to wote,and only in america,its restricted to two party. Why in america dont have more then 2 parties in elections?


America doesn't even have two. It is a One Party state.

But anyway, with regard to Russian election, I believe Putin is correct when he says the questioning of the election results is all being done by American agents. Would the US pay attention to Russian funded "election monitoring NGOs?" Any protest that happens in Russia with regard to the election I intend to simply dismiss as a Clinton-Obama trick.

There seems to be a lot of freelance election monitors too, not funded by anyone.


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Re: Russian Election

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:38 am

Baron Von PWN wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
qwert wrote:well i dont understand how US democratic elections,only alove 2 party to be in elections,and all other dont have any right. When you wote you have only 2 option, in all other democratic countries you have 10-15-20 parties to wote,and only in america,its restricted to two party. Why in america dont have more then 2 parties in elections?


America doesn't even have two. It is a One Party state.

But anyway, with regard to Russian election, I believe Putin is correct when he says the questioning of the election results is all being done by American agents. Would the US pay attention to Russian funded "election monitoring NGOs?" Any protest that happens in Russia with regard to the election I intend to simply dismiss as a Clinton-Obama trick.



Actualy according to the official Russian results, the outcomes were a mathematical impossibility. A number of districts had a more than 100% turnout, Also highly suspect is Chechnya having a 99% turnout with 95% voting for united Russia.


That's because the Chechnya's were taught to love Mother Russia. Don't see anything suspicious at all here!
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Pope Joan on Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:23 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote: Actualy according to the official Russian results, the outcomes were a mathematical impossibility. A number of districts had a more than 100% turnout, Also highly suspect is Chechnya having a 99% turnout with 95% voting for united Russia.


This is technically not true: any Russian citizen can vote in any district if s/he takes out a coupon from his/er electoral commission. Thus, if there are enough visitors, the turnout could be above 100%...

You must be a CIA agent, are you not :mrgreen: ?
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:23 pm

Pope Joan wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote: Actualy according to the official Russian results, the outcomes were a mathematical impossibility. A number of districts had a more than 100% turnout, Also highly suspect is Chechnya having a 99% turnout with 95% voting for united Russia.


This is technically not true: any Russian citizen can vote in any district if s/he takes out a coupon from his/er electoral commission. Thus, if there are enough visitors, the turnout could be above 100%...

You must be a CIA agent, are you not :mrgreen: ?

Ah I was not aware of that.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:13 pm

Usually, from what I recall, extremely high turnout rates is correlated with corrupt elections because not that many people care. Maybe this correlation only applies to "well-developed" countries.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:36 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote: Actualy according to the official Russian results, the outcomes were a mathematical impossibility. A number of districts had a more than 100% turnout, Also highly suspect is Chechnya having a 99% turnout with 95% voting for united Russia.


This is technically not true: any Russian citizen can vote in any district if s/he takes out a coupon from his/er electoral commission. Thus, if there are enough visitors, the turnout could be above 100%...

You must be a CIA agent, are you not :mrgreen: ?

Ah I was not aware of that.


Regardless it seems unlikely people were bussing in from other districts simply to vote there.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote: Actualy according to the official Russian results, the outcomes were a mathematical impossibility. A number of districts had a more than 100% turnout, Also highly suspect is Chechnya having a 99% turnout with 95% voting for united Russia.


This is technically not true: any Russian citizen can vote in any district if s/he takes out a coupon from his/er electoral commission. Thus, if there are enough visitors, the turnout could be above 100%...

You must be a CIA agent, are you not :mrgreen: ?

Ah I was not aware of that.


Regardless it seems unlikely people were bussing in from other districts simply to vote there.


We can't assume to know the voting motivations of individuals with only cursory glance. Perhaps in 3-4 years, after the passion of the moment has subsided and time has been afforded for a slow, methodical review of the election then we can raise questions.

After the Iranian elections, all western press called them rigged. The only two independent studies conducted in the year after results found no evidence of manipulation. But western media didn't cover those studies.

I celebrate United Russia continues to be a voice of stability, mainstream common sense and peace on Earth - in face of NATO extremism - and the champion of the rights of the developing world!
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:04 pm

Fresh protests in Moscow, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16122524. Estimates for the crowd range from 25- 100 thousand. It's quite something to see normally apolitically apathetic Russians rally like this.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby saxitoxin on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:51 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:Fresh protests in Moscow, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16122524. Estimates for the crowd range from 25- 100 thousand.


a few battalions of MvD troops should fix that
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Re: Russian Election

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:53 am

A great article about the US' meddling and dirty tricks that resulted in so-called "protests" in Russia. This is Libya on a larger scale. The Empire's plot is nearing the endgame.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... ussia.html
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Re: Russian Election

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:52 am

I love conspiracy theories too!
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Re: Russian Election

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:11 am

saxitoxin wrote:A great article about the US' meddling and dirty tricks that resulted in so-called "protests" in Russia. This is Libya on a larger scale. The Empire's plot is nearing the endgame.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... ussia.html

Some journalists were interviewing protesters and asked them about Putin's remarks about the U.S. and Hilary Clinton meddling. Various people said things like "Yeah, we're still waiting for our money." and "Yeah, we're totally here because Hilary texted us."
She's got an unlimited texting plan no doubt!


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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:25 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:A great article about the US' meddling and dirty tricks that resulted in so-called "protests" in Russia. This is Libya on a larger scale. The Empire's plot is nearing the endgame.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... ussia.html

Some journalists were interviewing protesters and asked them about Putin's remarks about the U.S. and Hilary Clinton meddling. Various people said things like "Yeah, we're still waiting for our money." and "Yeah, we're totally here because Hilary texted us."
She's got an unlimited texting plan no doubt!


--Andy


The smoking gun.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Dako on Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:36 am

Baron Von PWN wrote:Fresh protests in Moscow, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16122524. Estimates for the crowd range from 25- 100 thousand. It's quite something to see normally apolitically apathetic Russians rally like this.

I have been there. Was peaceful and nice. Many people were there with white flowers and white ribbons.

saxitoxin wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:Fresh protests in Moscow, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16122524. Estimates for the crowd range from 25- 100 thousand.


a few battalions of MvD troops should fix that

Not really. Half of them were scared to face such a crowd to be honest. And what can they do, shoot people on the streets? Nah, some of the police (don't know the percentage but I think a lot) support opposition but are forced to do their job. Some were even seen with flowers behind their backs and so on. And there will be no Libya #2 because Putin and Medvedev don't want extra problems.

And yes, I was there cause Hilary texted me.

There are some interesting facts, for example Medvedev issued an order to forbid all news media to report about this meeting. After 10 days there was an order that allowed media to overview it but to say nothing about opposition against United Russia. In the 7 minutes report on russian 1st channel there were 2 words about politics and the rest was about meeting organization and unrelated stuff. There will be more of them sanctioned soon and I think they will be on a bigger scale. Latest gathering in Moscow counted around 26k mobile phones present on the square at any moment. So I think around 30-40k people passed there during the whole meeting.

When we went to oppose the government in 1991 it turned things to the better. We hope it will work again.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby saxitoxin on Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 am

Dako wrote:When we went to oppose the government in 1991 it turned things to the better.


Did it?
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Pope Joan on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:08 am

Dako wrote: And yes, I was there cause Hilary texted me.


PM me her number. I may turn up if the next one is on in Koln...

Overall, I am getting pessimistic after "Just Russia" put forward Mironov in a spectacle resembling the goings of "United Russia": they did not even ask their own candidates to vote for Dmitrieva, so much for "democratic opposition"...

This essentially means that any credible opponent of Putin would need to be put forward via collecting supporter's signatures and is risking to be rejected by the electoral commission, like they did to Kasyanov to help out Medvedev at the last elections. And, IMHO, Putin would be much better president than Zyuganov, Zhrinovsky and Mironov together :mrgreen:
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Dako on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:02 am

Pope Joan wrote:
Dako wrote: And yes, I was there cause Hilary texted me.


PM me her number. I may turn up if the next one is on in Koln...

Overall, I am getting pessimistic after "Just Russia" put forward Mironov in a spectacle resembling the goings of "United Russia": they did not even ask their own candidates to vote for Dmitrieva, so much for "democratic opposition"...

This essentially means that any credible opponent of Putin would need to be put forward via collecting supporter's signatures and is risking to be rejected by the electoral commission, like they did to Kasyanov to help out Medvedev at the last elections. And, IMHO, Putin would be much better president than Zyuganov, Zhrinovsky and Mironov together :mrgreen:

This whole thing is not about Putin being a bad president. He is quite ok. And to be honest, yes, all other candidates are just clowns. But the point of this whole gathering is to show that our people cannot be that easily manipulated. That we want honest elections. That we don't want them to think we are dumb. That we want free media. That we want smart people governing our country. If we had a man or woman with strong political program, real goal and ability to improve the country, heck, everyone would have voted for him/her. But we don't have one :(.

Right we want to say that if we are discouraged by our government, there can easily be 50k+ people on the streets of Moscow. That means current opposition can be a little bit more aggressive because the crowd kind of supports it. And that also means our current government should act like one and stop stealing money and resources.

saxitoxin wrote:
Dako wrote:When we went to oppose the government in 1991 it turned things to the better.


Did it?

I think this is a discussion for another thread. But the short answer is yes, I think the situation drastically improved overall.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:20 am

Russian Billionaire announces he will run for president.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16138739

I wonder if he will get to run? Or if he will prove to be a clown. From what I saw in the BBC article he sounds ok. Seems to be a centre right, rule of law and good queasiness guy.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:39 am

Baron Von PWN wrote:Russian Billionaire announces he will run for president.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16138739

I wonder if he will get to run? Or if he will prove to be a clown. From what I saw in the BBC article he sounds ok. Seems to be a centre right, rule of law and good queasiness guy.

It all hinges on if he can sign Dwight Howard to the Nets in the NBA. If he can, then you should vote for him. If he can't, he can't deliver! ;) :D

===========

It has been interesting to watch all this unfold, and follow it from various news media sources. Dako, next time you go, raise up 8 fingers so we can spot you in a photo!


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Re: Russian Election

Postby Dako on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:28 am

AndyDufresne wrote:It has been interesting to watch all this unfold, and follow it from various news media sources. Dako, next time you go, raise up 8 fingers so we can spot you in a photo!
--Andy

show

I am the younger one.

Baron Von PWN wrote:Russian Billionaire announces he will run for president.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16138739

I wonder if he will get to run? Or if he will prove to be a clown. From what I saw in the BBC article he sounds ok. Seems to be a centre right, rule of law and good queasiness guy.

Don't believe in him. He decided to run for president when there was an opposition already. So he felt confident he can win it and get the power. If he'd done that before the gatherings, well, I'd think about voting for him. He is too sly.
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Re: Russian Election

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:37 am

Dako wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:Russian Billionaire announces he will run for president.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16138739

I wonder if he will get to run? Or if he will prove to be a clown. From what I saw in the BBC article he sounds ok. Seems to be a centre right, rule of law and good queasiness guy.

Don't believe in him. He decided to run for president when there was an opposition already. So he felt confident he can win it and get the power. If he'd done that before the gatherings, well, I'd think about voting for him. He is too sly.

You are probably right about this. He's one of those Mikhail-come-latelies.


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Re: Russian Election

Postby Baron Von PWN on Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:42 pm

Somebody went and did a mathematical analysis of the Russian poll results. Check it out. http://samarcandanalytics.com/?page_id=39

a similar analysis in Russian. http://eugenyboger.livejournal.com/4514.html
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