human rights

[BigBallinStalin]

Wish you had asked this earlier today, I am about ready to go.


Still, I will make a stab at this.

For me, its religion. God gives us our basic rights to be and commandments to follow.

Absolutely. As God says directly to Moses in Exodus 21:1 - 'These are the laws you shall set before them'.

Exodus 21:17 - 'Anyone who curses their mother or father is to be put to death'
Exodus 21:20 - 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result'
Exodus 22:18 - 'Do not allow a sorceress to live.'
Exodus 22: 19 'Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death.'
Exodus 22: 20 'Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.'
etc, etc
Don't screw up either, 'for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation''

This is absolute morality at its finest.

I don't like those.

Let's gloss over them and pick out the goods ones instead!

[the carpet man]

there is already the thread named 'is there a god' if you want to peddle your views on the bible (not meaning to sound rude)

let us talk about RIGHTS. particularly what i say about overpopulation a few posts ago

[PLAYER57832]

Wish you had asked this earlier today, I am about ready to go.


Still, I will make a stab at this.

For me, its religion. God gives us our basic rights to be and commandments to follow.

Absolutely. As God says directly to Moses in Exodus 21:1 - 'These are the laws you shall set before them'.

Exodus 21:17 - 'Anyone who curses their mother or father is to be put to death'
Exodus 21:20 - 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result'
Exodus 22:18 - 'Do not allow a sorceress to live.'
Exodus 22: 19 'Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death.'
Exodus 22: 20 'Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.'
etc, etc
Don't screw up either, 'for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation''

This is absolute morality at its finest.

Want to get into a discussion of Old Testament rules? Then you have to consider what life was like back then. I would suggest you might punish your toddler for leaving your yard without permission, but not your adult child who lives independently. Similarly, though the punishments and rules are of course very different, God has changed rules for humanity.

but, yeah.. God does allow kids to die, etc. Even so, we are here because our creation pleased him.

[the carpet man]

like i say, go talk nonsense about religion elsewhere. it is only relevant to the amount that you say you think religion defines our rights.

[PLAYER57832]

the reason i mention rights is because it seems to me that this problem comes from too much 'rights'. people feel it is their right to have the number of children they feel like, regardless of the effect of this on the planet. they do not see that it is a question of practicality, not rights.

I would draw a distinction between having children and an obligation to care for children that already exist.

[heavycola]

there is already the thread named 'is there a god' if you want to peddle your views on the bible (not meaning to sound rude)

let us talk about RIGHTS. particularly what i say about overpopulation a few posts ago

Agh, i just got nostalgic for religious back-and-forth trollery on this forum. Apologies.


DISCLAIMER - the following might be eror-strewn or plain wrong, but here's how I remember it:

Freedom is not an easy-to-define concept, but folk use it in arguments here as though it is. Someone - pretty sure it was Isiah Berlin? - drew a distinction between two kinds of freedom, positive liberty and negative liberty: positive liberty is the freedom to fulfill your potential unhindered by external constraints, while negative liberty is freedom from outside interference.

So: a national public education system that tries to give each pupil an equality of opportunity is an example of positive liberty in action, but by forcing parents to put their kids in school and follow a set curriculum, it infringes on negative liberty. I think. That's the spectrum, broadly.
So your right to pursue your own goals without the government interfering has to be balanced by others' rights to get the most out of their lives, and often the latter means making laws and generally tinkering with society. Like wheelchair ramps: is it OK for govt to compel businesses to install ramps at their own cost? if they don't, people in wheelchairs cannot access that building/office/job/whatever.

probably apropos of not much, but i was thinking about it reading thru some other threads on here.



PS I like the bit in the bible where god tells us to forget all that OT stuff because it doesn't apply anymore. Where was that again?

[PLAYER57832]

PS I like the bit in the bible where god tells us to forget all that OT stuff because it doesn't apply anymore. Where was that again?

Your probably intentional misunderstanding in an attempt to throw the thread off.

[heavycola]

PS I like the bit in the bible where god tells us to forget all that OT stuff because it doesn't apply anymore. Where was that again?

Your probably intentional misunderstanding in an attempt to throw the thread off.

You started it!

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Wish you had asked this earlier today, I am about ready to go.


Still, I will make a stab at this.

For me, its religion. God gives us our basic rights to be and commandments to follow.

Absolutely. As God says directly to Moses in Exodus 21:1 - 'These are the laws you shall set before them'.

Exodus 21:17 - 'Anyone who curses their mother or father is to be put to death'
Exodus 21:20 - 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result'
Exodus 22:18 - 'Do not allow a sorceress to live.'
Exodus 22: 19 'Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death.'
Exodus 22: 20 'Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.'
etc, etc
Don't screw up either, 'for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation''

This is absolute morality at its finest.

I don't like those.

Let's gloss over them and pick out the goods ones instead!

I pretty much apply this philosophy to everything.

-TG

[thegreekdog]

Wish you had asked this earlier today, I am about ready to go.


Still, I will make a stab at this.

For me, its religion. God gives us our basic rights to be and commandments to follow.

Absolutely. As God says directly to Moses in Exodus 21:1 - 'These are the laws you shall set before them'.

Exodus 21:17 - 'Anyone who curses their mother or father is to be put to death'
Exodus 21:20 - 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result'
Exodus 22:18 - 'Do not allow a sorceress to live.'
Exodus 22: 19 'Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death.'
Exodus 22: 20 'Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.'
etc, etc
Don't screw up either, 'for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation''

This is absolute morality at its finest.

I don't like those.

Let's gloss over them and pick out the goods ones instead!

I pretty much apply this philosophy to everything.

-TG

Are sorcerors also supposed to be put to death?

[AAFitz]

Wish you had asked this earlier today, I am about ready to go.


Still, I will make a stab at this.

For me, its religion. God gives us our basic rights to be and commandments to follow.

Absolutely. As God says directly to Moses in Exodus 21:1 - 'These are the laws you shall set before them'.

Exodus 21:17 - 'Anyone who curses their mother or father is to be put to death'
Exodus 21:20 - 'Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result'
Exodus 22:18 - 'Do not allow a sorceress to live.'
Exodus 22: 19 'Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal is to be put to death.'
Exodus 22: 20 'Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.'
etc, etc
Don't screw up either, 'for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation''

This is absolute morality at its finest.

I don't like those.

Let's gloss over them and pick out the goods ones instead!

I pretty much apply this philosophy to everything.

-TG

Are sorcerors also supposed to be put to death?

Of course, but only if they beat their slaves to death.

[AAFitz]

what do you think is your 'right', as a human?

example: perhaps you think it is your right to have a vote in how your government runs. or your right to have children.

why do you feel you should be given these rights? what makes you think that birth on this planet entitles you to the things you feel entitled to?

You have no God given rights as a human. However, as a member of society you are given rights, because those before you shed blood to give them or lose them, whatever the case may be.

Your given rights are completely subjective, and completely based on where on this planet you are born and even sometimes more importantly, by whom.

This is the strict reality of rights, and its ridiculously obvious too.

As far as why people feel they have rights, its because other humans have taught them that they have these rights, and it is what separates us from animals....sometimes.

So, we as humans, simply must decide what our rights are, and insure other humans have them if we deem them important. Unfortunately, the quest for power and greed, many will fight against the rights of others to attain more power and greed. While we have many, many problems in this world, and many cases and places where children have no rights to speak of, its also ultimately amazing how far we have progressed, from essentially no one in the world really having any meaningful rights whatsoever at given periods of time.

[PLAYER57832]

AA -- you brought up a point I was going to mention.. well, sort of.

I would say our being here is inherent proof that we have a right to be here, BUT... how far that right goes and what it means is very much a question of debate.

[Timminz]

I would say our being here is inherent proof that we have a right to be here

And when you did, you would be wrong.

[the carpet man]

some animals consider there to be rights. i have heard of tribes of monkeys in north africa, where mating is for the elder males and not the younger. sometimes the younger monkeys sneak off to mate, but if caught are beaten by the elders. which suggests that animals also play with the same concepts as us.

yes, player. why does anyone have a right to exist?

it is funny. the argument seems to go 'rights come from morals, morals come from knowing what is right and wrong, right and wrong comes from knowing good and evil, good and evil are known because of morals...'

is foolish when you consider it

[PLAYER57832]

I would say our being here is inherent proof that we have a right to be here

And when you did, you would be wrong.

The question is only in what that means, the limits.

[BigBallinStalin]

I would say our being here is inherent proof that we have a right to be here

And when you did, you would be wrong.

The question is only in what that means, the limits.

However the answer is that in which means only, the limits.

[AAFitz]

I would say our being here is inherent proof that we have a right to be here

And when you did, you would be wrong.

The question is only in what that means, the limits.

However the answer is that in which means only, the limits.

But the means are not limited to the answer.

[pmchugh]

I would say our being here is inherent proof that we have a right to be here

And when you did, you would be wrong.

The question is only in what that means, the limits.

However the answer is that in which means only, the limits.

But the means are not limited to the answer.

The limits are only in the answer, whatever that means.