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Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Baron Von PWN on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:32 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Drugs themselves don't violate those constraints. In an anarcho-capitalist society all drugs would be legal; however, they would be illegal in certain zones depending on the contract which delineates the rules for entry to those grounds. For example, you shouldn't take bong rips at a certain old folks home, if the old folks home said, "don't do that here."


what if they decided free association for some, slavery for others. They can hoard their power and then use it to oppress others.


We already have that... The slaves are called "workers" the free associater is the "free loader" and trillion dollar ObamaCare, trillion dollar bailouts, and trillion dollar stimulus bills are where the power is being hoarded, and Obama is the current Oppressor.

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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:43 am

Phatscotty wrote:I don't have to defend every single thing Ronald Reagan did. Especially not the irrelevant left-fielders Notyou2 picks out of his ass. And now you are jumping from government urine tests to telling you what you can and can't put in your bodies (assuming everyone is forced to work for the government??)

That video does not address drugs, and just because another poster brought it up is no reason to jump all over my shit LOL. Maybe you need to start this thread from the beginning.


You don't have to but apparently you choose to.

When ny2 posted that you didn't respond: "Yes Reagan screwed up there, but imo that issue is not very important", instead you had a knee-jerk reaction to protect your hero. Damn the principles, it's the idol that counts.

Was Reagan pro legalization of drugs? If not he did think he knew better than his citizens what they should and shouldn't put in their bodies. You posted the video while presumably addresing me. I guess you think it's normal to post random youtube videos in the middle of a debate.



Phatscotty wrote:We already have that... The slaves are called "workers" the free associater is the "free loader" and trillion dollar ObamaCare, trillion dollar bailouts, and trillion dollar stimulus bills are where the power is being hoarded, and Obama is the current Oppressor.


You haven't god the faintest clue what living in a true oppressive state feels like and you cheapen the suffering of millions by talking about the US as if it's North Korea.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby oVo on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:38 am

Have the dollars trickled down to you yet?
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:51 am

Baron Von PWN wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Drugs themselves don't violate those constraints. In an anarcho-capitalist society all drugs would be legal; however, they would be illegal in certain zones depending on the contract which delineates the rules for entry to those grounds. For example, you shouldn't take bong rips at a certain old folks home, if the old folks home said, "don't do that here."



I feel this paragraph somewhat reveals the problem with anarcho-capitalism and its ideological bros.

Individual groups or organizations become sovereign. Essentially they have all the power to decide their rules from within. that's supposed to be fine, due to free association. However individual groups are sovereign, what if they decided free association for some, slavery for others. They can hoard their power and then use it to oppress others.

I feel like the theory would just be like hitting a reset button and going back to a medieval level political fragmentation which would see the whole agonizing history of statehood repeated.


Well, you'd have a robust system of competitive legal systems. They could be FOCJs in a quasi-anarcho-capitalist society, or totally private courts. Enslaving someone for the sake of "i wanna do that" won't cut it under those legal systems. It's a violation of civil liberties. So, if some group decided that they wanted to start enslaving people against their will, then they'd have to eat the costs of all the legal problems while running into private security organizations, which will make their endeavor very unprofitable.

However, slavery could be acceptable as a form of punishment for 1st degree murder, or maybe not. It's up to these people to decide.

My main criticism against anarcho-capitalism is that people would naturally form governments, which would over time expand, as the US has been doing and as has pretty much any major power out there.

Feudalism? I don't think so.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Baron Von PWN on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:27 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Baron Von PWN wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Drugs themselves don't violate those constraints. In an anarcho-capitalist society all drugs would be legal; however, they would be illegal in certain zones depending on the contract which delineates the rules for entry to those grounds. For example, you shouldn't take bong rips at a certain old folks home, if the old folks home said, "don't do that here."



I feel this paragraph somewhat reveals the problem with anarcho-capitalism and its ideological bros.

Individual groups or organizations become sovereign. Essentially they have all the power to decide their rules from within. that's supposed to be fine, due to free association. However individual groups are sovereign, what if they decided free association for some, slavery for others. They can hoard their power and then use it to oppress others.

I feel like the theory would just be like hitting a reset button and going back to a medieval level political fragmentation which would see the whole agonizing history of statehood repeated.


Well, you'd have a robust system of competitive legal systems. They could be FOCJs in a quasi-anarcho-capitalist society, or totally private courts. Enslaving someone for the sake of "i wanna do that" won't cut it under those legal systems. It's a violation of civil liberties. So, if some group decided that they wanted to start enslaving people against their will, then they'd have to eat the costs of all the legal problems while running into private security organizations, which will make their endeavor very unprofitable.

However, slavery could be acceptable as a form of punishment for 1st degree murder, or maybe not. It's up to these people to decide.

My main criticism against anarcho-capitalism is that people would naturally form governments, which would over time expand, as the US has been doing and as has pretty much any major power out there.

Feudalism? I don't think so.



This is essentially what I meant by groups having sovereignty. Since they can make their own laws eventually someone would be powerful enough to impose their will regardless of voluntary exchange.

I only used medieval Europe as an example due to its small political units, not due to my thinking it would look like medieval Europe.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:01 pm

Baron Von PWN wrote:
This is essentially what I meant by groups having sovereignty. Since they can make their own laws eventually someone would be powerful enough to impose their will regardless of voluntary exchange.


So, Group Bully will be powerful enough to illegally take things from protected clients without sufficient legal repercussions and without a sufficient response from the private security organizations? How so? Walk me through that process.


EDIT: for me, that rising "government" would still face problems from the groups protected under their own legal and security organizations. Essentially, what you're saying is that this government, or Group Bully, would somehow overpower the other groups? How?
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:31 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:No. Your assumptions are wrong. Your bias is too thick on this one



Good 'ol Phatsco! Never clarifying his stance until strongly urged to do so--assuming that all the Dodge Attempts are unsuccessful.


Clarifying my stance.... on what?
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:34 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I don't have to defend every single thing Ronald Reagan did. Especially not the irrelevant left-fielders Notyou2 picks out of his ass. And now you are jumping from government urine tests to telling you what you can and can't put in your bodies (assuming everyone is forced to work for the government??)

That video does not address drugs, and just because another poster brought it up is no reason to jump all over my shit LOL. Maybe you need to start this thread from the beginning.


You don't have to but apparently you choose to.

When ny2 posted that you didn't respond: "Yes Reagan screwed up there, but imo that issue is not very important", instead you had a knee-jerk reaction to protect your hero. Damn the principles, it's the idol that counts.

Was Reagan pro legalization of drugs? If not he did think he knew better than his citizens what they should and shouldn't put in their bodies.

Phatscotty wrote:We already have that... The slaves are called "workers" the free associater is the "free loader" and trillion dollar ObamaCare, trillion dollar bailouts, and trillion dollar stimulus bills are where the power is being hoarded, and Obama is the current Oppressor.


You haven't god the faintest clue what living in a true oppressive state feels like and you cheapen the suffering of millions by talking about the US as if it's North Korea.


I don't see what legalization of drugs or piss tests have to do with anything, other than Ny's attempts at trolling, and just because I have not lived in an oppressive state does not disqualify me from sharing the principles of Freedom and Liberty or Ronald Reagan.

If you guys want to talk about drugs.....what do you want to talk about. All I can see so far is that NY2 declared my position for me, and Haggis called me a hypocrite for being defined by NY2. You call that debate? :lol:

The video I posted is to talk about Liberty, which is what I am talking about.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:36 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:No. Your assumptions are wrong. Your bias is too thick on this one



Good 'ol Phatsco! Never clarifying his stance until strongly urged to do so--assuming that all the Dodge Attempts are unsuccessful.


Clarifying my stance.... on what?



viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169129&start=15#p3694700

See "individual freedom" part.

You know how Ronald Reagan supports "individual freedom," yet imposes mandatory drug tests on all government employees (except for an exclusive club within the CDC and perhaps in other departments as well depending on their own discretion).


I tried to clarify your stance [ur=http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169129&start=15#p3694523]here[/url], but I'm not sure if you're libertarian, or if you choose individual freedom in certain circumstances but not in others for reasons which only you know.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:40 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:No. Your assumptions are wrong. Your bias is too thick on this one



Good 'ol Phatsco! Never clarifying his stance until strongly urged to do so--assuming that all the Dodge Attempts are unsuccessful.


Clarifying my stance.... on what?



viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169129&start=15#p3694700

See "individual freedom" part.

You know how Ronald Reagan supports "individual freedom," yet imposes mandatory drug tests on all government employees (except for an exclusive club within the CDC and perhaps in other departments as well depending on their own discretion).


I tried to clarify your stance [ur=http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169129&start=15#p3694523]here[/url], but I'm not sure if you're libertarian, or if you choose individual freedom in certain circumstances but not in others for reasons which only you know.


Okay.....What exactly is it that Ronald Reagan did. Can you guys share the law he signed so I have a clue what you are talking about? Can we start there?
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:46 pm

See the mock thread of this one for that evidence on drug tests.


What I don't get is that you love toting about "Freedom and Liberty," but you never really explain what you mean. If you support Reagan and his warmongering, his deficit spending, his increased military spending, etc., all at the expense of taxpayers (via violating their property rights through taxation) at that time and for future generations (repaying debt), then please explain how these main policies of his promote "Freedom and Liberty."


Explain what you mean by "individual freedom," "Liberty, "and Freedom" and a lot of these problems melt away (for us).
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:54 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:See the mock thread of this one for that evidence on drug tests.


What I don't get is that you love toting about "Freedom and Liberty," but you never really explain what you mean. If you support Reagan and his warmongering, his deficit spending, his increased military spending, etc., all at the expense of taxpayers (via violating their property rights through taxation) at that time and for future generations (repaying debt), then please explain how these main policies of his promote "Freedom and Liberty."


Explain what you mean by "individual freedom," "Liberty, "and Freedom" and a lot of these problems melt away (for us).


Cutting taxes. The bill he signed allowed people to keep more of the fruits of their own labor. This is a plus for freedom and liberty. Do you agree so far?

I never expect for a president to do a perfect job, or fix something 100%, or ignore the Congress that controls the spending. I only judge presidents as moving something more in the right direction or less on a given issue.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Nola_Lifer on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:37 pm

Everyone like Reagan because he was a famous movie star. Look at California and the Governator. You just need to be the most popular kid to win the Presidency. f*ck Regan and his trickle down economics and his war on drugs. The only thing that scotty ever sees on any political argument is taxes and his belief in liberties.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:42 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:Everyone like Reagan because he was a famous movie star. Look at California and the Governator. You just need to be the most popular kid to win the Presidency. f*ck Regan and his trickle down economics and his war on drugs. The only thing that scotty ever sees on any political argument is taxes and his belief in liberties.


What is wrong with having some issues that are more important than other issues???? You guys are getting really weird in this thread....
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby notyou2 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:26 pm

Phatty, I am tired of you bitching, whining and complaining about how big government is, and the next post is the government should institute drug tests for the welfare recipients.

Then you moan AGAIN that government is too big and should not be doing anything, yet you drive on the roads that government builds and maintains, you attend the schools, you go to the hospital, yada yada yada to infinitum.


You sir are a HUGE hypocrite. You can't even decide what to say. You need some dimwit political commentary to decide for you.


Get your head out of your ass and take a real look around.

Or perhaps you are so high that you can't discern reality from Phatty's playland.

I hope it is the latter.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:37 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:See the mock thread of this one for that evidence on drug tests.


What I don't get is that you love toting about "Freedom and Liberty," but you never really explain what you mean. If you support Reagan and his warmongering, his deficit spending, his increased military spending, etc., all at the expense of taxpayers (via violating their property rights through taxation) at that time and for future generations (repaying debt), then please explain how these main policies of his promote "Freedom and Liberty."


Explain what you mean by "individual freedom," "Liberty, "and Freedom" and a lot of these problems melt away (for us).


Cutting taxes. The bill he signed allowed people to keep more of the fruits of their own labor. This is a plus for freedom and liberty. Do you agree so far?

I never expect for a president to do a perfect job, or fix something 100%, or ignore the Congress that controls the spending. I only judge presidents as moving something more in the right direction or less on a given issue.


Ah, so no explanations. Okay.

How do you compare the short-term gains of reducing taxes with a trend set by Reagan for deficit spending? Or his warmongering policies? Or his war on drugs?

How does that work with promoting "liberty, freedom, and individual freedom"?
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Lootifer on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:25 pm

I wonder what Adam Smith would make of Americans modern economy (and underlying economic policy).
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:46 pm

notyou2 wrote:Phatty, I am tired of you bitching, whining and complaining about how big government is, and the next post is the government should institute drug tests for the welfare recipients.


Honesty check. When did I make a post about welfare recipients?

notyou2 wrote:Then you moan AGAIN that government is too big and should not be doing anything, yet you drive on the roads that government builds and maintains, you attend the schools, you go to the hospital, yada yada yada to infinitum.


Intelligence check. Since when does one saying the government is too big mean one is against ALL regulations?


notyou2 wrote:You sir are a HUGE hypocrite. You can't even decide what to say. You need some dimwit political commentary to decide for you.



Reality Check. I didn't say any of the things you accuse me of saying. You must have your head up your ass, literally.

Notyou2, a mind is a terrible thing to waste....
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:51 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:See the mock thread of this one for that evidence on drug tests.


What I don't get is that you love toting about "Freedom and Liberty," but you never really explain what you mean. If you support Reagan and his warmongering, his deficit spending, his increased military spending, etc., all at the expense of taxpayers (via violating their property rights through taxation) at that time and for future generations (repaying debt), then please explain how these main policies of his promote "Freedom and Liberty."


Explain what you mean by "individual freedom," "Liberty, "and Freedom" and a lot of these problems melt away (for us).


Cutting taxes. The bill he signed allowed people to keep more of the fruits of their own labor. This is a plus for freedom and liberty. Do you agree so far?

I never expect for a president to do a perfect job, or fix something 100%, or ignore the Congress that controls the spending. I only judge presidents as moving something more in the right direction or less on a given issue.


Ah, so no explanations. Okay.


What do you want explained? I asked if you agreed with me so far....if you do we can continue down the example I am providing. If you do not agree, we have to go over that before we can continue. Then we can get into the rest about deficits etc
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Nola_Lifer on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:05 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:See the mock thread of this one for that evidence on drug tests.


What I don't get is that you love toting about "Freedom and Liberty," but you never really explain what you mean. If you support Reagan and his warmongering, his deficit spending, his increased military spending, etc., all at the expense of taxpayers (via violating their property rights through taxation) at that time and for future generations (repaying debt), then please explain how these main policies of his promote "Freedom and Liberty."


Explain what you mean by "individual freedom," "Liberty, "and Freedom" and a lot of these problems melt away (for us).


Cutting taxes. The bill he signed allowed people to keep more of the fruits of their own labor. This is a plus for freedom and liberty. Do you agree so far?

I never expect for a president to do a perfect job, or fix something 100%, or ignore the Congress that controls the spending. I only judge presidents as moving something more in the right direction or less on a given issue.


Ah, so no explanations. Okay.



What do you want explained? I asked if you agreed with me so far....if you do we can continue down the example I am providing. If you do not agree, we have to go over that before we can continue. Then we can get into the rest about deficits etc


He asked you questions that he wanted you to explain, yet you failed to add that in the quote, then ask BBS to clarify what he wants you to explain. You run in retarded circles ever dogging the question.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Night Strike on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:20 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:How do you compare the short-term gains of reducing taxes with a trend set by Reagan for deficit spending? Or his warmongering policies? Or his war on drugs?

How does that work with promoting "liberty, freedom, and individual freedom"?


Most of Reagan's deficit spending came because he made a deal with Congress to cut spending $3 for every $1 in tax cuts. The tax cuts happened, but not the governmental spending. For the military, their increase in spending was done because Reagan saw an opening to push the Soviets into bankruptcy and topple the regime. It worked. If you're referring to drug testing as a war on drugs, it makes sense that employees should be drug tested because drugs lead to decreased productivity, workplace accidents, etc.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:See the mock thread of this one for that evidence on drug tests.


What I don't get is that you love toting about "Freedom and Liberty," but you never really explain what you mean. If you support Reagan and his warmongering, his deficit spending, his increased military spending, etc., all at the expense of taxpayers (via violating their property rights through taxation) at that time and for future generations (repaying debt), then please explain how these main policies of his promote "Freedom and Liberty."


Explain what you mean by "individual freedom," "Liberty, "and Freedom" and a lot of these problems melt away (for us).


Cutting taxes. The bill he signed allowed people to keep more of the fruits of their own labor. This is a plus for freedom and liberty. Do you agree so far?

I never expect for a president to do a perfect job, or fix something 100%, or ignore the Congress that controls the spending. I only judge presidents as moving something more in the right direction or less on a given issue.


Ah, so no explanations. Okay.


What do you want explained? I asked if you agreed with me so far....if you do we can continue down the example I am providing. If you do not agree, we have to go over that before we can continue. Then we can get into the rest about deficits etc


see underlined.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:48 pm

Night Strike wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:How do you compare the short-term gains of reducing taxes with a trend set by Reagan for deficit spending? Or his warmongering policies? Or his war on drugs?

How does that work with promoting "liberty, freedom, and individual freedom"?


Most of Reagan's deficit spending came because he made a deal with Congress to cut spending $3 for every $1 in tax cuts. The tax cuts happened, but not the governmental spending. For the military, their increase in spending was done because Reagan saw an opening to push the Soviets into bankruptcy and topple the regime. It worked. If you're referring to drug testing as a war on drugs, it makes sense that employees should be drug tested because drugs lead to decreased productivity, workplace accidents, etc.



"Drug war," something along these lines:
When it comes to Reagan's legacy in drug policy � the drug war, of which he played a major though not lone role in escalating to an unprecedented level � even staunch Reagan enthusiasts are less likely to brag about it than other issues he impacted. Though polling has found that 3/4 of Americans support the drug war, polls also show that 3/4 of Americans consider the drug war to be a failure, and a number of high-level Reagan administration officials have broken fundamentally with the drug war ideology his administration vigorously espoused � votes of confidence in neither case by any means. While some drug war advocates point to decreases in casual drug use rates during the 1980s as measured by government surveys, others point to much more hard-hitting and more accurately measured phenomena such as increased drug trade violence, constant addiction rates, an explosion of HIV transmission through injection drug use, and the rapid growth, seemingly from nowhere, of crack cocaine into a widespread habit having deleterious effects on the nation's inner cities.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/341/reagan.shtml


The Former Soviet Union
The soviet's economic policies bankrupted themselves, but I'll admit that Reagan's ramped up spending compelled the Russian government to fold their cards some time sooner than they had to, but it didn't render the Russians powerless. What did the US gain by dumping billions into its war industry?

After the Russian experience with shock transitional economics during 10 years, the Russians could ignore NATO demands/concerns as they invaded Georgia. According to the Globalist,
1) "[Russia is] now by far the most formidable, best maintained and most modernized nuclear strike force on the planet."
2) "Under Putin, Russia became the world's largest oil and natural gas producing and exporting power."
3) "But those same forces took the United States and its allies totally by surprise in August 2008, when they conquered one-third of the mountainous, supposedly-easy-to-defend former Soviet republic of Georgia in the Caucasus in a mere 48 hours. "
4) "Russia remains the supreme military power across the entire Eurasian landmass. In an increasingly chaotic world, driven by an ever more acute competition over resources, that real military power may well end up counting for a lot."

Yeah, what a "victory" for the US. All that spending gave the USG a stronger incentive to start wars in other countries while obtaining the benefit of... defeating the Soviet Union and having Putin revamp Russia into a supreme regional player which can still challenge US power. Sure, the Russians don't directly counter the USG's global plans as frequently, but all that spending didn't defeat them. They're still a strong player.


Deficit Spending
Was that vote-swapping deal effective? Let's find out:

US Federal Deficits in the 20th Century
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Total Government Debt since 1900
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Federal Deficit 1900-2016 (interest payments)
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Nope! Thanks, Reagan! How's that Reaganite "Freedom" and "Liberty" smell?
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby Night Strike on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:01 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Deficit Spending
Was that vote-swapping deal effective? Let's find out:


I already said that vote-swapping deal didn't work.

On Russia, you can't equate Putin's current return to power to Reagan's role in the fall of the USSR. Reagan stopped being president in 1988, before the USSR actually fell, so it's not like he had a continuing hand in helping remove the Soviets from power. Russia is stronger today because our presidents think that treaties with them will work while they give up nothing. We are handing the power back to Russia.

On the drug war, just because not every policy decision goes your way doesn't mean the president is an abject failure. Getting rid of drugs IS a great goal to have, but it's not like our government is actually working to do that.
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Re: Ronald Reagan's Uniting Principles

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:12 pm

Night Strike wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Deficit Spending
Was that vote-swapping deal effective? Let's find out:


I already said that vote-swapping deal didn't work.

On Russia, you can't equate Putin's current return to power to Reagan's role in the fall of the USSR. Reagan stopped being president in 1988, before the USSR actually fell, so it's not like he had a continuing hand in helping remove the Soviets from power. Russia is stronger today because our presidents think that treaties with them will work while they give up nothing. We are handing the power back to Russia.

On the drug war, just because not every policy decision goes your way doesn't mean the president is an abject failure. Getting rid of drugs IS a great goal to have, but it's not like our government is actually working to do that.


We'll go back to the beginning:

How do you compare the short-term gains of reducing taxes with a trend set by Reagan for deficit spending? Or his warmongering policies? Or his war on drugs?

How does that work with promoting "liberty, freedom, and individual freedom"?


Seeing his policies in play and the effects which followed, I don't see how they promoted liberty, freedom, and individual freedom, and how the short-term gain of tax cuts somehow offsets the losses of these semi*-tractable notions of liberty, freedom, and individual freedom. In short, Phatscotty's position doesn't make sense.

*I don't think the economic freedom index extends past the early 1990s.
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