Trickle up economics

[Phatscotty]

The rich Corporate world in America has successfully bought a political party and bought many other politicians to change the economic policies.

You hear it everyday from politician, we must reduce taxes on businesses, reduce income taxes, reduce and eliminate the capital gains tax. Deregulate and defund the government agencies that slow down and crimp capitalism.

What the Corporate world want is pure Capitalism, where the CEOs run the economy without interference from government oversight.

This has result in "trickle up economics" where the American worker is being squeezed to give away more of his salary and benefits [benefits? if you're lucky] and the CEOs watch their profit margins grow and their own salary and benefits grow astronomically. Funny heh? Republicans love to wave the American flags and hug the bible while their contributors treat the average American worker as disposable garbage.

We have seen companies like Whirlpool move from Michigan to Arkansas which is a "right to work" which means anti-union to increase their bottom line. Whirlpool is closing their plants in Arkansas and now have moved to the worker's paradise of China.

How treasonous is that? Profit over worker's rights and fair compensation.

What would be treasonous would be to enslave companies to a state, and tell them they can't move, virtually the government takes over the company. Have you thought that through???

How do you know Michigan wasn't getting too greedy? The Unions voting themselves too much? There is such a thing as "going too far".

but I like how you state what Corporate America wants, (pure capitalism) and then go on to pretend that that is what corporate America has! If you insterted the word "crony" before capitalism, you would have a point.

Are you an angry person?

[MeDeFe]

If I really need to explain: my ideal plan doesn't involve capital being a separate class from labor. I know that in traditional class capitalism (worker cooperatives being an exciting development in rejecting class capitalism but still operating and competing within a capitalist system) workers can't expect to get the full value they add to products. But, in response to "given what is currently possible in the United States' political climate, what entails 'fair compensation?'" it involves conditions that aren't imposed on laborers due to phony "market conditions."

But, isn't it innacurate to say that the worker making a wrench produces the "full value" of the wrench?

Yes, it is. But I don't think spurgistan said that at any point.

What about his use of the machines and electricity and all the other branches of the company that lead to that wrench being sold at the price it's sold for.
If he were to make the wrench in his garage it's quite unlikely he would produce the same "value" in the same time as he does at the factory.
It seems difficult to define "value" like this.
If the sales team managed to negotiate a contract with 10% higher price, did they produce that value?

It's quite simple, really, you calculate what the machines, electricity, and sales team add to the value of the wrench, and then you divide it up. The owner of the machines gets his part, the guy who pays the bills gets his, and so on and so forth. It's beautiful in theory. If the machines are communally owned and maintained and the electricity bills paid for by everyone pitching in an equal amount it gets even easier.

[Woodruff]

, fair compensation is the worker getting back all the value the worker adds to the product. As I think I've mentioned before, I'm basically the Annoyed Peasant from Holy Grail.[/size]

And you understand that this takes away every penny of profit, correct?

That is only true if you presume that the worker is the only one providing value to the product. Is that really what you meant?

Also, I believe spurgistan recognizes that what he's stating isn't realistic or even reasonable, only that it is "idealistically fair" (which really is true, in my opinion, as well).

I saw an OWS protester complaining on camera about how his company paid him $30 an hour running a machine and charged the customers $80 an hour (that was the base price of the stuff the guy was producing on his machine, the cost to the customer being charged at $80). He was complaining that he should be making that $80. I think to myself, "does he understand where the money to pay his wages, pay the electric bill to power his machine, the health benefits and all the other stuff comes from?"

Yeah, if that was the guy's argument, it's not very sensical.

[Haggis_McMutton]

It's quite simple, really, you calculate what the machines, electricity, and sales team add to the value of the wrench, and then you divide it up. The owner of the machines gets his part, the guy who pays the bills gets his, and so on and so forth. It's beautiful in theory. If the machines are communally owned and maintained and the electricity bills paid for by everyone pitching in an equal amount it gets even easier.

Ok, that works for machines and electricity, what about things that can't easily be quantified though? What's human resources' value? What's the legal team's value. How do you decide what the sales team "adds"? You'd need some kind of baseline against which to compare their performance I guess.

This has always been my problem with communistic approaches. Sound good on paper, but once I start thinking about it I can never get my head around the details. Perhaps I haven't read the right books yet.

[nietzsche]

Just remember that wage workers do their 8-10 hours and go home to watch the game sitting on their lazy chair while drinking a six pack, they worry because they never cared to look for a better future in the system they were raised, and now that they think it's too late, they want to change the rules of the game instead of changing their actions to be benefited by these rules.

[Timminz]

It's all bullshit! Trickle down, trickle up, who gives a shit? What the world needs is more trickle me Elmo.

[Woodruff]

What the world needs is more trickle me Elmo.

That sounds quite disgusting.

[Juan_Bottom]

[Night Strike]

I still need to read Trickle Down Tyranny and Trickle Up Poverty.

[Army of GOD]

filthy rich capitalists the Republican Party actually cares about.

hahaha

[BigBallinStalin]

It's all bullshit! Trickle down, trickle up, who gives a shit? What the world needs is more trickle me Elmo.

Bullshit! We don't need your trickle me Elmos trickling all over the place. We need magic. Let's bring magic back, and we can solve all the problems.

[PLAYER57832]

Just remember that wage workers do their 8-10 hours and go home to watch the game sitting on their lazy chair while drinking a six pack, they worry because they never cared to look for a better future in the system they were raised, and now that they think it's too late, they want to change the rules of the game instead of changing their actions to be benefited by these rules.

That is utter and complete BULLSHIT.

Some people do make those choices, but not most. Most people wind up with an 8-10 hour job because they were not graced to be born to parents who could fund an ivy league education, or who even lived where access to the schools building up to that was possible. Even when you claim it is "choice", how much of a choice is it when a child grows up on a community where no one except those on TV and a few teachers have college, understand how to go to a real interview, have reliable references.

It is only the lucky.. and mostly the wealthy at that, who truly get to do anything close to their true abilities.

[Woodruff]

Just remember that wage workers do their 8-10 hours and go home to watch the game sitting on their lazy chair while drinking a six pack, they worry because they never cared to look for a better future in the system they were raised, and now that they think it's too late, they want to change the rules of the game instead of changing their actions to be benefited by these rules.

That is utter and complete BULLSHIT.

Some people do make those choices, but not most. Most people wind up with an 8-10 hour job because they were not graced to be born to parents who could fund an ivy league education, or who even lived where access to the schools building up to that was possible. Even when you claim it is "choice", how much of a choice is it when a child grows up on a community where no one except those on TV and a few teachers have college, understand how to go to a real interview, have reliable references.

It is only the lucky.. and mostly the wealthy at that, who truly get to do anything close to their true abilities.

Certainly wealth plays into it, as well as good fortune. But I must disagree on your last point. I have a couple of students in mind who I have seen literally pull themselves from the lower end of society (not the dregs, mind you...but they were pretty poor) and because of their innate intelligence (I suppose that could be considered luck) and personal drive, they now hold pretty good positions in Corporate America. They really are at the point where I believe they are "at their true abilities". Now, I don't think that's a common story by any means, nor do I believe all who have the innate intelligence and personal drive will succeed like that, but it does show that it's possible.

[BigBallinStalin]

Just remember that wage workers do their 8-10 hours and go home to watch the game sitting on their lazy chair while drinking a six pack, they worry because they never cared to look for a better future in the system they were raised, and now that they think it's too late, they want to change the rules of the game instead of changing their actions to be benefited by these rules.

That is utter and complete BULLSHIT.

Some people do make those choices, but not most. Most people wind up with an 8-10 hour job because they were not graced to be born to parents who could fund an ivy league education, or who even lived where access to the schools building up to that was possible. Even when you claim it is "choice", how much of a choice is it when a child grows up on a community where no one except those on TV and a few teachers have college, understand how to go to a real interview, have reliable references.

It is only the lucky.. and mostly the wealthy at that, who truly get to do anything close to their true abilities.

What's interesting is that if there was a 100% estate tax, or something similar to that effect, then you'd deny these kids from having access to better education.