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GreecePwns wrote:Well in the political arena, that is what social conservatism is. .
















Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.






Haggis_McMutton wrote:Question: Might it not be that the belief that your group has privileged knowledge about the universe, it's creator and that which is right and wrong will usually lead to the belief that things should be run according to this privileged knowledge and thus the desire to spread and impose this privileged knowledge even through the means of the state?






















DangerBoy wrote:chang50 wrote:Haggis posts a thoughtful and well considered question and this response is a perfect description of all that I find unpleasant about religion,good job DB..you should be embarrassed.
Oh, stop it with the feigned disgust. I manage an entire department at work, and only have time to post once in awhile now. Somebody has to work to fund all these stupid entitlement programs that the utopians here want.











AAFitz wrote:Haggis_McMutton wrote:Question: Might it not be that the belief that your group has privileged knowledge about the universe, it's creator and that which is right and wrong will usually lead to the belief that things should be run according to this privileged knowledge and thus the desire to spread and impose this privileged knowledge even through the means of the state?
Yes it is. We call them scientists.













GreecePwns wrote:It is quite a jump from "matter cannot be created from nothing" to "my morality is better than yours, and everyone must follow it regardless of the consequences."
Isn't it? Am I think only one who sees this?




















Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment







thegreekdog wrote:As far as the letter is concerned (someone else mentioned this), if you spoke with 10 Baptists, 9 of them would vote for someone who would ban gay marriage










bedub1 wrote:This is kinda off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Did you know that the Catholic church is partially responsible for the Black Plague?
Basically, the pope made up some shit about cats and had them all killed, which allowed the mice and fleas to multiply out of control, killing nearly a 1/3rd of Europe's population.
http://suite101.com/article/cats-and-th ... gue-a58146Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.




















bedub1 wrote:This is kinda off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Did you know that the Catholic church is partially responsible for the Black Plague?
Basically, the pope made up some shit about cats and had them all killed, which allowed the mice and fleas to multiply out of control, killing nearly a 1/3rd of Europe's population.
http://suite101.com/article/cats-and-th ... gue-a58146Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.
It is often claimed in popular books and websites that Gregory's condemnation of heretics worshipping Satan in the form of a black cat in his bull Vox in Rama led to a massacre of cats across Europe. However, there is no evidence of any such massacre and no mention of it in any actual sources from the period. It is usually also claimed that this supposed "cat massacre" caused the Black Death a century after Gregory's time, because the plague was spread by rats who were unchecked in Europe due to the decline of cat numbers. While this makes for a good story, it does not square with the evidence. The Black Death did not start in Europe and did not just devastate Catholic territories - it began in central Asia and spread west, devastating large swathes of central Asia, Asia Minor and the Middle East before hitting Europe. It makes no sense that an (alleged) western European massacre of cats could "cause" a pandemic that began well outside of Catholic Europe and had already killed millions across Eurasia. This story is a myth perpetuated, without evidence or references, by popular unscholarly works.[13]



thegreekdog wrote:bedub1 wrote:This is kinda off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Did you know that the Catholic church is partially responsible for the Black Plague?
Basically, the pope made up some shit about cats and had them all killed, which allowed the mice and fleas to multiply out of control, killing nearly a 1/3rd of Europe's population.
http://suite101.com/article/cats-and-th ... gue-a58146Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.
Unbiased website.
CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/diseases/plague.htm
Cats can carry the plague.
/thread.










Symmetry wrote:It is often claimed in popular books and websites that Gregory's condemnation of heretics worshipping Satan in the form of a black cat in his bull Vox in Rama led to a massacre of cats across Europe. However, there is no evidence of any such massacre and no mention of it in any actual sources from the period. It is usually also claimed that this supposed "cat massacre" caused the Black Death a century after Gregory's time, because the plague was spread by rats who were unchecked in Europe due to the decline of cat numbers. While this makes for a good story, it does not square with the evidence. The Black Death did not start in Europe and did not just devastate Catholic territories - it began in central Asia and spread west, devastating large swathes of central Asia, Asia Minor and the Middle East before hitting Europe. It makes no sense that an (alleged) western European massacre of cats could "cause" a pandemic that began well outside of Catholic Europe and had already killed millions across Eurasia. This story is a myth perpetuated, without evidence or references, by popular unscholarly works.[13]
Source
The Persecution of Cats
Cats came under suspicion for a variety of reasons. Unlike dogs, they did not behave subserviently toward humans. This was considered unnatural, because it violated the biblical view that humans should have dominion over animals. Also, cats were very active at night and engaged in loud, raucous mating rituals. Though cats had always behaved in this manner, to the superstitious minds of the Middle Ages, cats were practicing supernatural powers and witchcraft. Most accused witches were older peasant women who lived alone, often keeping cats as pets for companionship. This guilt by association meant that roughly a million cats were burned at the stake, along with their owners, on suspicion of being witches.
In the early thirteenth century Pope Gregory IX (1145ā1241) declared that a sect in southern France had been caught worshipping the devil. He claimed the devil had appeared in the form of a black cat. Cats became the official symbol of heresy (or religious beliefs not advocated by the church). Anyone who showed any compassion or feeling for a cat came under the church's suspicion. By the beginning of the fourteenth century, Europe's cat population had been severely depleted. Only semi-wild cats survived in many areas.
In 1347 the bubonic plague swept across Europe. Called the Black Death, it killed twenty-five million people (nearly a third of Europe's population) in only three years. Thousands of farm animals died as well, either from the plague or from lack of care. The death rate peaked in the warm summer months and dropped dramatically in the wintertime because the plague was being spread to humans by fleas on infected rodents. The plague revisited Europe several more times over the next few centuries. In addition, millions of people are thought to have suffered from food poisoning during the Middle Ages because of the presence of rat droppings in the grain supply. Centuries of cat slaughter had allowed the rodent population to surge out of control.
Perhaps his most lasting action was a minor item: his papal letter Vox in Rama of 1232 is credited with the vilification of cats, through its description of cult practices involving felines. This led to a great reduction in the number of cats, which, a hundred years later, may have contributed to the quick spread of the Black Death plague, which killed one-third to one-half of the population of Europe.[13]










Symmetry wrote:I read it, and dismissed it. A bad source doesn't make good history, and no matter how much you dislike the Papacy, the black death really isn't something you can pin on Catholicism.







BigBallinStalin wrote:Interesting article. She's stating that religion has been blamed for many problems (e.g. wars) in the past; however, it was not religion alone that was the cause. The primary cause was the fusing of religion with the State, which granted a particular religion the capability to persecute people and wage wars.







bedub1 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:Interesting article. She's stating that religion has been blamed for many problems (e.g. wars) in the past; however, it was not religion alone that was the cause. The primary cause was the fusing of religion with the State, which granted a particular religion the capability to persecute people and wage wars.
What about when the religion IS the State, and the Pope is the King?(Vatican City) Does he gain his power through the State, or through the religion? Does the states population of 800 have the capability to persecute people and wage war?
bedub1 wrote:Looking at the cat example, which I've realized IS on topic, the Pope passed his proclamation and the followers enforced it. It seems that millions of christian Europeans who slaughtered their cats might have caused their own death and the death of their neighbors.























































BigBallinStalin wrote:










BigBallinStalin wrote:
Done.
Labor: 1 minute * $100 saxbucks per minute.
Please pay for services rendered, TGD.




















thegreekdog wrote:bedub - your initial post linked to a pro-cat website (a quite disturbing website, I might add). My initial post linked to the CDC website. Notwithstanding my distrust of the government, I would say my source holds more water than your source.







bedub1 wrote:thegreekdog wrote:bedub - your initial post linked to a pro-cat website (a quite disturbing website, I might add). My initial post linked to the CDC website. Notwithstanding my distrust of the government, I would say my source holds more water than your source.
Your source says cats can carry fleas. I agree with that. Now lets move on to the rest of the conversation, and sources, which explain how cats keep rat populations in check, and how the pope through his ignorant ideology lead to the death of millions of Europeans.




















thegreekdog wrote:bedub1 wrote:thegreekdog wrote:bedub - your initial post linked to a pro-cat website (a quite disturbing website, I might add). My initial post linked to the CDC website. Notwithstanding my distrust of the government, I would say my source holds more water than your source.
Your source says cats can carry fleas. I agree with that. Now lets move on to the rest of the conversation, and sources, which explain how cats keep rat populations in check, and how the pope through his ignorant ideology lead to the death of millions of Europeans.
Cats eat rats, get plague, give it to people
/thread (again)








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