Norway's mass killer whines about prison life.

[nietzsche]

What do you expect from a dude that killed 70 for irrational reasons?

[lt.Futt]

I would have executed the guy in Old Norse tradition:

I didn't understand the point either. The correlation between Abu Ghraib and the Norway killings? Sorry, don't get it.

Of course you didn't.

Sorry, you still don't make sense. How about some explanation in your posts?

If I was in power (and you can thank your gods that I am not) I would blood eagle these bastards in public. Whiny little European. The days of drawing and quartering are well passed, but in such cases should be brought back. Prison is not good enough for this fktard...sometimes you need to sentence people to death...but NOT DEATH ROW! When you sentence people to death, you should kill them on the next day...end of story. Closure is fulfilled and everyone can get on with their lives.

Yeah, I'm a tough guy...whatchya gonna do about it?

"Tough guy" you do realize that you're not even a member of the US government? Ever wonder why? I guess you do.

You really don't see any correlation between Abu Graib, your youtube link and YOUR "punishment" for a convicted prisoner in Norway? The correlation is all you, "tough guy". You'd cuff a prisoner, rape and kill? That's "tough". So what happened to Lyndie England? Convicted. Wonder why? Cause you're not the US law. That's why, "tough guy", however that all what you are. "Tough guy", according to yourself.

[lt.Futt]

The Breivik guy was the one comparing it to Abu_Ghraib - hardly a big unrelated nonsensical tangent there if people had actually read the article before rushing to post on the thread

Except he made it clear it was about his opinion of US tough guys

Strong and tough. We both know that we're sarcastic and ironic. Don't give me that shit.

[Haggis_McMutton]

See, this is the problem with being civil, you get ignored. Let's try again.

List of countries by incarceration rate( link)

1 United States of America 730 / 100,000
...
5 Rwanda 527
6 Georgia 514
7 Cuba 510
...
91 Armenia 155
92 Serbia 154
92 United Kingdom 154
...
173 Norway 73

=================
List of countries by homicide rate( link)

105. Georgia 4.3
106. Martinique 4.2
107. United States 4.2
108. Turkmenistan 4.2
...
161. Armenia 1.4
167. United Kingdom 1.2
169. Serbia 1.2
...
196. Norway 0.6

In summary, Norway has an incarceration rate 10 times lower than the US and a homicide rate 7 times lower.

So, tell you what tough guys, how about you work on getting your country on the same level as, say, recovering post-sovietic nations and then you can start giving Norway advice on how a legal system should be run, k ?

[CreepersWiener]

My, my. Aren't we all testy tonight?

[lt.Futt]

The difference in the US legal system and a Zoo? The Zoo has a sign Do Not Feed the Animals.

[chang50]

See, this is the problem with being civil, you get ignored. Let's try again.

List of countries by incarceration rate( link)

1 United States of America 730 / 100,000
...
5 Rwanda 527
6 Georgia 514
7 Cuba 510
...
91 Armenia 155
92 Serbia 154
92 United Kingdom 154
...
173 Norway 73

=================
List of countries by homicide rate( link)

105. Georgia 4.3
106. Martinique 4.2
107. United States 4.2
108. Turkmenistan 4.2
...
161. Armenia 1.4
167. United Kingdom 1.2
169. Serbia 1.2
...
196. Norway 0.6

In summary, Norway has an incarceration rate 10 times lower than the US and a homicide rate 7 times lower.

So, tell you what tough guys, how about you work on getting your country on the same level as, say, recovering post-sovietic nations and then you can start giving Norway advice on how a legal system should be run, k ?

It gets worse,the prison population in the US has quadrupled in the last 30 years and 70% are non-white.When the US is remotely as civilised as Norway,or W.Europe in general it will be in a position to advise them on how to manage their penal system..

[Gillipig]

My, my. Aren't we all testy tonight?

So quoting valid statistics is to be testy in your world. Shows that you're an ignorant fool.
To me it's called winning an argument.

[CreepersWiener]

My, my. Aren't we all testy tonight?

So quoting valid statistics is to be testy in your world. Shows that you're an ignorant fool.
To me it's called winning an argument.

Fool...yes. Ignorant...most definitely. Am I trying to tell Norway what to do with their penile system? No. I was making no argument towards that. I simply stated what I would do with such individuals (you may not agree with it). I am a bit harsh, but I come from the dictatorship frame of mind. I do not believe in democracy...it has failed.

Strap somebody up in public and cut their ribs from their spine. Reach in and pull out the lungs and watch them flutter like wings...let the populace see this...keep 'em in line.

Of course, I am a Satanist...what would you expect?

GO NORWAY! YOU GUYS' PENILE SYSTEM ROCKS!

[CreepersWiener]

And when did this thread become Europeans vs. Americans?????

[Haggis_McMutton]

Fool...yes. Ignorant...most definitely. Am I trying to tell Norway what to do with their penile system? No. I was making no argument towards that.

Ok then, guess I misunderstood you. My previous post is only aimed at scotty then.

I am a bit harsh, but I come from the dictatorship frame of mind. I do not believe in democracy...it has failed.

Can you elaborate? In what way have dictatorships been historically better than democracies?

Of course, I am a Satanist...what would you expect?

Can you give me a link describing what you mean by "satanist" ? It seems like a lot of quite divergent philosophies like to use that term. (i.e. you one of those guys sacrificing goats in cemeteries? or do you see satan as some sort of symbol about the human condition or some such? )

[lt.Futt]

And when did this thread become Europeans vs. Americans?????

I wouldn't say it's Europeans vs Americans. Scotty claimed that Norwegians are weak. But the discourse shows that several thinks the Norwegian penal system makes sense.

[Phatscotty]

The difference in the US legal system and a Zoo? The Zoo has a sign Do Not Feed the Animals.

...or, the difference is at the zoo there are bars to keep the animals in

[Phatscotty]

And when did this thread become Europeans vs. Americans?????

I wouldn't say it's Europeans vs Americans. Scotty claimed that Norwegians are weak. But the discourse shows that several thinks the Norwegian penal system makes sense.

More directly, the sentence was extremely weak.

[lt.Futt]

And when did this thread become Europeans vs. Americans?????

I wouldn't say it's Europeans vs Americans. Scotty claimed that Norwegians are weak. But the discourse shows that several thinks the Norwegian penal system makes sense.

More directly, the sentence was extremely weak.

You feed the animals. We don't.

It takes strenght to sentence a mass murdering of 77 kids and adults to max 21 years.

[MeDeFe]

PENILE SYSTEM

I don't want to be a dick about this, but are you quite certain you really meant "penile"?

[lt.Futt]

The difference in the US legal system and a Zoo? The Zoo has a sign Do Not Feed the Animals.

...or, the difference is at the zoo there are bars to keep the animals in

?

Ja-aa-aa-aa-awn!

Who is this guy, PhattyScotty? Jeeez!

[Phatscotty]

The difference in the US legal system and a Zoo? The Zoo has a sign Do Not Feed the Animals.

...or, the difference is at the zoo there are bars to keep the animals in

?

Ja-aa-aa-aa-awn!

Who is this guy, PhattyScotty? Jeeez!

I am the cure

[Symmetry]

PENILE SYSTEM

I don't want to be a dick about this, but are you quite certain you really meant "penile"?

The guy is named CreepersWiener.

[thegreekdog]

See, this is the problem with being civil, you get ignored. Let's try again.

List of countries by incarceration rate( link)

1 United States of America 730 / 100,000
...
5 Rwanda 527
6 Georgia 514
7 Cuba 510
...
91 Armenia 155
92 Serbia 154
92 United Kingdom 154
...
173 Norway 73

=================
List of countries by homicide rate( link)

105. Georgia 4.3
106. Martinique 4.2
107. United States 4.2
108. Turkmenistan 4.2
...
161. Armenia 1.4
167. United Kingdom 1.2
169. Serbia 1.2
...
196. Norway 0.6

In summary, Norway has an incarceration rate 10 times lower than the US and a homicide rate 7 times lower.

So, tell you what tough guys, how about you work on getting your country on the same level as, say, recovering post-sovietic nations and then you can start giving Norway advice on how a legal system should be run, k ?

I'm not sure how prison population and violent crime rates are relevant to a discussion of punishments for murder. Can you elaborate? Prison population probably has nothing to do with punishments since I'm pretty sure most of those incarcerated are incarcerated for victimless crimes (like drug possession or selling) and not for mass murder. Murder rates might be relevant if we assume that people don't commit crimes because they are scared of punishment, but I'm pretty sure people don't take prison time into account when they commit violent crimes.

I don't know enough about this Norwegian dude to know whether he belongs in prison or a mental institution, but it seems like his punishment was rather light. Why not life in prison?

[Metsfanmax]

I don't know enough about this Norwegian dude to know whether he belongs in prison or a mental institution, but it seems like his punishment was rather light. Why not life in prison?

This is because Norway is one of the few countries that has escaped from the mindset that retribution is a necessary tenet of incarceration. In Norway, the principal idea is rehabilitation. The hope is that all criminals can be taught how to become non-violent and non-criminal members of society. The possibility of life in prison suggests that no such rehabilitation is possible. Now, it is indeed possible that Breivik will never be judged to be adequately fit for release, and the Norwegian justice system accounts for that and can basically keep him locked up indefinitely. That doesn't mean that life in prison from the outset is a good idea. I strongly agree with the way they go about this. Retributive justice is an obsolete principle.

[thegreekdog]

I don't know enough about this Norwegian dude to know whether he belongs in prison or a mental institution, but it seems like his punishment was rather light. Why not life in prison?

This is because Norway is one of the few countries that has escaped from the mindset that retribution is a necessary tenet of incarceration. In Norway, the principal idea is rehabilitation. The hope is that all criminals can be taught how to become non-violent and non-criminal members of society. The possibility of life in prison suggests that no such rehabilitation is possible. Now, it is indeed possible that Breivik will never be judged to be adequately fit for release, and the Norwegian justice system accounts for that and can basically keep him locked up indefinitely. That doesn't mean that life in prison from the outset is a good idea. I strongly agree with the way they go about this. Retributive justice is an obsolete principle.

Retributive justice doesn't solve crime problems, so to that extent I agree with you. Assuming this person is mentally handicapped in some way, I would think his "punishment" would be rehabilitation only. Why was it not just that? In other words, he's either clinically handicapped such that he belongs in a mental institution until rehabilitated or dead or he's not clinically handicapped and he needs to be locked up so that he cannot commit further crimes. Instead, he's being locked up for some length of time, presumably to protect society, and then maybe will go into a mental institution.

[Metsfanmax]

Retributive justice doesn't solve crime problems, so to that extent I agree with you. Assuming this person is mentally handicapped in some way, I would think his "punishment" would be rehabilitation only. Why was it not just that? In other words, he's either clinically handicapped such that he belongs in a mental institution until rehabilitated or dead or he's not clinically handicapped and he needs to be locked up so that he cannot commit further crimes. Instead, he's being locked up for some length of time, presumably to protect society, and then maybe will go into a mental institution.

Well, Norway has embraced this approach to some extent. For example, read about the Halden Prison sometime; it is based on the idea that prison can be just as much about rehabilitation and treating prisoners humanely as it is about protecting society.

But in the case of the most violent and dangerous criminals like Breivik, I can understand why the government may be reluctant to give him such freedoms. Nevertheless, at the very least the point is about protecting society and not about punishing the criminal. That's why life in prison is counter-productive; it's an admission that the person has no hope of ever rejoining society, and in general the Norwegian justice system is more forward-thinking than that. The end result will probably be the same in the case of Breivik, but in the myriad cases that are much less severe, I think the difference is profound.

[thegreekdog]

Retributive justice doesn't solve crime problems, so to that extent I agree with you. Assuming this person is mentally handicapped in some way, I would think his "punishment" would be rehabilitation only. Why was it not just that? In other words, he's either clinically handicapped such that he belongs in a mental institution until rehabilitated or dead or he's not clinically handicapped and he needs to be locked up so that he cannot commit further crimes. Instead, he's being locked up for some length of time, presumably to protect society, and then maybe will go into a mental institution.

Well, Norway has embraced this approach to some extent. For example, read about the Halden Prison sometime; it is based on the idea that prison can be just as much about rehabilitation and treating prisoners humanely as it is about protecting society.

But in the case of the most violent and dangerous criminals like Breivik, I can understand why the government may be reluctant to give him such freedoms. Nevertheless, at the very least the point is about protecting society and not about punishing the criminal. That's why life in prison is counter-productive; it's an admission that the person has no hope of ever rejoining society, and in general the Norwegian justice system is more forward-thinking than that. The end result will probably be the same in the case of Breivik, but in the myriad cases that are much less severe, I think the difference is profound.

Yeah, that would work for me. A rehabilitation/prison facility would be most appropriate. It won't happen in the US because it would be too expensive (presumably), but probably a good idea here as well.

[Metsfanmax]

Retributive justice doesn't solve crime problems, so to that extent I agree with you. Assuming this person is mentally handicapped in some way, I would think his "punishment" would be rehabilitation only. Why was it not just that? In other words, he's either clinically handicapped such that he belongs in a mental institution until rehabilitated or dead or he's not clinically handicapped and he needs to be locked up so that he cannot commit further crimes. Instead, he's being locked up for some length of time, presumably to protect society, and then maybe will go into a mental institution.

Well, Norway has embraced this approach to some extent. For example, read about the Halden Prison sometime; it is based on the idea that prison can be just as much about rehabilitation and treating prisoners humanely as it is about protecting society.

But in the case of the most violent and dangerous criminals like Breivik, I can understand why the government may be reluctant to give him such freedoms. Nevertheless, at the very least the point is about protecting society and not about punishing the criminal. That's why life in prison is counter-productive; it's an admission that the person has no hope of ever rejoining society, and in general the Norwegian justice system is more forward-thinking than that. The end result will probably be the same in the case of Breivik, but in the myriad cases that are much less severe, I think the difference is profound.

Yeah, that would work for me. A rehabilitation/prison facility would be most appropriate. It won't happen in the US because it would be too expensive (presumably), but probably a good idea here as well.

It would be a good start, but the US has much more severe problems with its prison system. The reason it would be so expensive is because of the sheer number of people we imprison, and we can cut that down through a combination of decriminalization of non-violent acts like drug usage, and targeted support for disadvantaged areas where people are dispropotionately represented in the prison population. It's possible in Norway precisely because their violent crime rate is so low.