a question to the atheists out there

[brooksieb]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying that all of the people that died in combat could have been saved if they had prayed?

no definately not, maybe they did not have much to lose, maybe the people that had been saved had alot of kids to look after. i think god favours people depending on how bad there situation is

[Snorri1234]

You cant underestimate the power of wht you learn or even just hear when you are very small. I went to a church of england school, so thta sprobably why i would shout out "O God" has opposed to "Oh Spidey" thogh i agree Spidey ROCKS DA HOUSE.
Plus, some if it is just linguistic-God is a very common word, spidey less so.

I wish I was spidey

I hear people shout "O God" quite a bit, but never in a battlefield situation.

Exactly. To paraphrase Bill Hicks, when you are shagging it would be a bit weird to shout out "RANDOM COLLISION OF PARTICLES" or "QUANTUM",
Oh God is just easier. It means nothing.

I tried to scream "OH THEORY OF EVOLUTION!" but really it just takes away the joy of the moment.

[nmhunate]

Then by that logic, that god helps those whose situation is really bad, then the Sullivan brothers would not have all died on the Juneau. The entire family died in that one battle and those brothers were very pious.

I am not trying to destroy your faith... I am just trying to follow your logic.

[nmhunate]

In hoc signo vinces... I have heard that story. The soldiers did not paint a cross on their shields but the first two letters of Christ's name written in Greek... the Chi and the Rho. and it was Constantine that saw In hoc signo vinces written in the sky before the battle with the barbarians.

The thing was that many of the soldiers in the army at the time were already Christians. and the Chi Rho was the symbol for Christianity in the eastern empire at the time. The painting of the Chi Rho energized the chrisitians in the army and allowed them to win that particular battle. on his death bed Constantine was baptized... Which basically christinized the empire... however like I said, Christians was a very large minority at the time... even I believe, Christianatiny had obtained a plurality of religion at the time.

[Neoteny]

You cant underestimate the power of wht you learn or even just hear when you are very small. I went to a church of england school, so thta sprobably why i would shout out "O God" has opposed to "Oh Spidey" thogh i agree Spidey ROCKS DA HOUSE.
Plus, some if it is just linguistic-God is a very common word, spidey less so.

I wish I was spidey

I hear people shout "O God" quite a bit, but never in a battlefield situation.

Exactly. To paraphrase Bill Hicks, when you are shagging it would be a bit weird to shout out "RANDOM COLLISION OF PARTICLES" or "QUANTUM",
Oh God is just easier. It means nothing.

I tried to scream "OH THEORY OF EVOLUTION!" but really it just takes away the joy of the moment.

Though the looks you get are priceless.

[suggs]

You cant underestimate the power of wht you learn or even just hear when you are very small. I went to a church of england school, so thta sprobably why i would shout out "O God" has opposed to "Oh Spidey" thogh i agree Spidey ROCKS DA HOUSE.
Plus, some if it is just linguistic-God is a very common word, spidey less so.

I wish I was spidey

I hear people shout "O God" quite a bit, but never in a battlefield situation.

Exactly. To paraphrase Bill Hicks, when you are shagging it would be a bit weird to shout out "RANDOM COLLISION OF PARTICLES" or "QUANTUM",
Oh God is just easier. It means nothing.

I tried to scream "OH THEORY OF EVOLUTION!" but really it just takes away the joy of the moment.

[Plutoman]

I'm just curious, does saying "oh god, save me please" really make you necessarily religious or a christian?

It's more a sign of desperation, and you say it out of the minor chance it could happen. Not really because you believe it.

Of course, right now I'm praying to whatever the god of English and Grammar is to improve your writing and spelling...

[brooksieb]

Then by that logic, that god helps those whose situation is really bad, then the Sullivan brothers would not have all died on the Juneau. The entire family died in that one battle and those brothers were very pious.

I am not trying to destroy your faith... I am just trying to follow your logic.

yes, that is one story (theres probably if not definately quite alot more) but thats a few.

i know u are not it is kinda like constructive critism but im not the person to ask im just trying to interpret it in my own way

[brooksieb]

I'm just curious, does saying "oh god, save me please" really make you necessarily religious or a christian?

It's more a sign of desperation, and you say it out of the minor chance it could happen. Not really because you believe it.

Of course, right now I'm praying to whatever the god of English and Grammar is to improve your writing and spelling...

yes i know it is desperation (like i desperately wanted arsenal to win even though we were getting killed by spurs 5-1)

and im not bothered about my spelling its the internet if i was writing a formal letter i wud worry about the spelling but you can still understand me and that's all that matters

[Frigidus]

Personally I can say I wouldn't. Over praying to someone who I have determined doesn't exist, I would prepare myself for what would be likely the most horrible and testing experience of my life. If I were to ask for anyones help it would be my friends around me, not god(s).

[comic boy]

he can walk on water and make dreams come true

The Flash can walk on water and Dr. Strange can make dreams come true.

god is closer than you think

Very true, however Atheists do not believe this. I think that what is difficult for you is that you cannot put yourself in the shoes of an atheist. They do not feel the powerful love of God in their everyday life. I imagine that you walk around with a coat made of God's love.

Imagine your life were you do "know" god. Why would people that do not feel this way call out for the Lord?

well i dont walk around thinking that my coat is made of gods love, after all it's just material made by someone else, i believe god provided the materials however, god did not make the coat.

again i do not know the second question you've asked me i believe in free choice and if u dont want to think god is there u can think god is not there, however sometimes people try new things in desperation for example the roman army were loosing all there battles, the centurian talked to the monk and the monk said "paint a cross on your shield, you will win this if you paint a cross on your shield" so the romans done that out of desperation and they won the battle, the monk told them to keep doing that and eventually the romans abandoned their beliefs and turned to christianity, or on a reverse note a christian can stop believing in god if that person feels that god is not listening to them, if you understand.

You gotta stop trying to learn history from a cornflake packet

[suggs]

Rice krispies normally offer a more cogent analyisis.

[Frigidus]

he can walk on water and make dreams come true

The Flash can walk on water and Dr. Strange can make dreams come true.

god is closer than you think

Very true, however Atheists do not believe this. I think that what is difficult for you is that you cannot put yourself in the shoes of an atheist. They do not feel the powerful love of God in their everyday life. I imagine that you walk around with a coat made of God's love.

Imagine your life were you do "know" god. Why would people that do not feel this way call out for the Lord?

well i dont walk around thinking that my coat is made of gods love, after all it's just material made by someone else, i believe god provided the materials however, god did not make the coat.

again i do not know the second question you've asked me i believe in free choice and if u dont want to think god is there u can think god is not there, however sometimes people try new things in desperation for example the roman army were loosing all there battles, the centurian talked to the monk and the monk said "paint a cross on your shield, you will win this if you paint a cross on your shield" so the romans done that out of desperation and they won the battle, the monk told them to keep doing that and eventually the romans abandoned their beliefs and turned to christianity, or on a reverse note a christian can stop believing in god if that person feels that god is not listening to them, if you understand.

You gotta stop trying to learn history from a cornflake packet

Whoa. I didn't see this. Wow. OK, that didn't happen at all. First off, it wasn't a monk it was Constantine. Second, it was one battle, and the soldiers themselves didn't convert at all.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Actually i do have this rather annoying reflex of mentioning "god" here and there even though I`m an atheist.
But I`m currently training myself to replace god with Hank.
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ , if you don`t know the sketch)

Hank bless you

[brooksieb]

Personally I can say I wouldn't. Over praying to someone who I have determined doesn't exist, I would prepare myself for what would be likely the most horrible and testing experience of my life. If I were to ask for anyones help it would be my friends around me, not god(s).

what if ur friends wernt there in another situation

[brooksieb]

he can walk on water and make dreams come true

The Flash can walk on water and Dr. Strange can make dreams come true.

god is closer than you think

Very true, however Atheists do not believe this. I think that what is difficult for you is that you cannot put yourself in the shoes of an atheist. They do not feel the powerful love of God in their everyday life. I imagine that you walk around with a coat made of God's love.

Imagine your life were you do "know" god. Why would people that do not feel this way call out for the Lord?

well i dont walk around thinking that my coat is made of gods love, after all it's just material made by someone else, i believe god provided the materials however, god did not make the coat.

again i do not know the second question you've asked me i believe in free choice and if u dont want to think god is there u can think god is not there, however sometimes people try new things in desperation for example the roman army were loosing all there battles, the centurian talked to the monk and the monk said "paint a cross on your shield, you will win this if you paint a cross on your shield" so the romans done that out of desperation and they won the battle, the monk told them to keep doing that and eventually the romans abandoned their beliefs and turned to christianity, or on a reverse note a christian can stop believing in god if that person feels that god is not listening to them, if you understand.

You gotta stop trying to learn history from a cornflake packet

well the last time i heard that story was when i was 'bout 13 which was 1973 so i've done pretty good considering its that many yrs ago

[got tonkaed]

well then you would probably just end up saying f*ck it, and it would be your time to go.

As humans we have such an incredible fear of death that we are willing to create many different cultural elements in order to assuage that fear. Frankly i dont think it makes someone religious to in their final moments cry out for any kind of help at all. Because it isnt so much about the religion in that moment as much as it is about the desire to escape a situation for which very few minds can cope at all, the proximity of dying.

[unriggable]

This is how I imagine the world and the human mind as working.

If you take a christian woman and her child, sit the woman down and kill her child in front of her, she will scream at me "why did you kill my child". If you take her child and go to the other side of the planet, wherever that may be, and kill it, and then tell her her child has been killed, she will cry to God "why did you kill my child". Because after all, God is only there to fill in the gaps of what we weren't around to see and what we don't understand. Once we do understand what it actually is, then it wasn't god that killed the child (or was responsible for its death in any way), it was somebody else. Before humanity, I doubt God existed. But as soon as early man came about with their curious minds they needed to find out what lightning was, what the sun was, and what was the reason for everything around them.

[heavycola]

You cant underestimate the power of what you learn or even just hear when you are very small. I went to a church of england school, so that is probably why i would shout out "O God" has opposed to "Oh Spidey" thogh i agree Spidey ROCKS DA HOUSE.
Plus, some of it is just linguistic-God is a very common word, spidey less so.

I wish I was spidey

Well, spiderman isn't technically bulletproof. It's no good having spidey get out of the way of bullets if you are standing behind him at the time.

[suggs]

Shit. My world view destroyed.
Spidey lied to me

[heavycola]

Shit. My world view destroyed.
Spidey lied to me

No no Suggs, I am sure what would happen is he would spider sense the bullets, fire his web-like ejaculate at a nearby tree or ship, and pull you clear.

:puts suggs back in playpen:

Sorry buddy. I didn't mean to upset you.

[OnlyAmbrose]

I've seen alot of threads bashing christians so I'd thought i'd make my own, to say that, for example if you were back in D-day and you were a atheist, you were in one of the landing boats and you were in the front line, bullets and bombs flying everywhere, wud you say "oh please god, save me so i'll get out of here in 1 piece" and i know that i met get a bit of a bashing but think about that. i do not want people saying oh gods fake, or i wudnt do that because i dont believe in god (you can make another thread or discuss that in another thread), because at the end of the day ur just giving atheism a bad name. So i want a decent awnser in your own interpretation.

You can't consider this a proof against atheism... obviously in war you might fall into "wishful thinking," if you're about to die of course you're going to hope you're not gone forever.

You can't make the case for God based on emotion. It doesn't work, and just makes atheists get this all-too-common view that Christians are irrational. Reason, people, reason!

[john9blue]

I've seen alot of threads bashing christians so I'd thought i'd make my own, to say that, for example if you were back in D-day and you were a atheist, you were in one of the landing boats and you were in the front line, bullets and bombs flying everywhere, wud you say "oh please god, save me so i'll get out of here in 1 piece" and i know that i met get a bit of a bashing but think about that. i do not want people saying oh gods fake, or i wudnt do that because i dont believe in god (you can make another thread or discuss that in another thread), because at the end of the day ur just giving atheism a bad name. So i want a decent awnser in your own interpretation.

You can't consider this a proof against atheism... obviously in war you might fall into "wishful thinking," if you're about to die of course you're going to hope you're not gone forever.

You can't make the case for God based on emotion. It doesn't work, and just makes atheists get this all-too-common view that Christians are irrational. Reason, people, reason! Wink

Agreed, just because someone tries to save themselves from death in their final moments by appealing to God isn't proof of God. It's just proof of their weak beliefs in atheism. A 100% atheist is going to probably find a practical way to help them survive instead.

This is how I imagine the world and the human mind as working.

If you take a christian woman and her child, sit the woman down and kill her child in front of her, she will scream at me "why did you kill my child". If you take her child and go to the other side of the planet, wherever that may be, and kill it, and then tell her her child has been killed, she will cry to God "why did you kill my child". Because after all, God is only there to fill in the gaps of what we weren't around to see and what we don't understand. Once we do understand what it actually is, then it wasn't god that killed the child (or was responsible for its death in any way), it was somebody else. Before humanity, I doubt God existed. But as soon as early man came about with their curious minds they needed to find out what lightning was, what the sun was, and what was the reason for everything around them.

More gross generalization of Christians... so what are you, above the human mind? The woman in your story isn't a very smart Christian, because she doesn't correctly differentiate human sin from divine justice.

I don't think that the idea of God came about as a result of the inexplicable, it came about before that, however it may have occurred, most likely divine revelation. When you have the idea of an omniscient being, and you see things that you don't understand, of course you're going to attribute it to God, it's not in your control. Nowadays it is explained by the 'laws of nature', but who's to say that God can't be found in these laws? How did we get order from chaos? Isn't the entropy of the universe supposed to be increasing? That's where God steps in.

[Neoteny]

I don't think that the idea of God came about as a result of the inexplicable, it came about before that, however it may have occurred, most likely divine revelation. When you have the idea of an omniscient being, and you see things that you don't understand, of course you're going to attribute it to God, it's not in your control. Nowadays it is explained by the 'laws of nature', but who's to say that God can't be found in these laws? How did we get order from chaos? Isn't the entropy of the universe supposed to be increasing? That's where God steps in.

The entropy of the universe is increasing, with a localized decrease or lack of increase in entropy in our part of the system corresponding with an increase in entropy elsewhere. No god required. And is divine revelation really the most likely origin of god? It's not something that we as a creative species could have made up?

[HayesA]

I would be following my orders, and trying to stay alive to see my family after I serve my term.