We childish CC atheists have a question

[Bertros Bertros]

no one has ever imposed a specific belief system, with regards to religion, in me while i was going up. my parents were always keen on letting me decide for myself. they did once ask me to go to sunday school, and i went. afterwards, i told them it wasn't for me and they never brought up the idea again. subsequently, my belief in higher beings is lacking and i have adopted an existentialist way of living and thinking.

my studies in college have taught me to be open-minded about anything and everything, and to question everything without blindly accepting or rejecting an idea or concept. sure, i have certain standards i uphold to, but i try to make it a point never to insult another's beliefs or way of thinking. my girlfriend is very spiritual and has a bible study group thing every tuesday and sometimes over the weekend. if i'm around for it, i usually sit in and have respectful and meaningful conversation regarding their beliefs and why certain things in the world happen or don't happen. i find it to be a lot more constructive.

You clearly can't be a real atheist. Two full paragraphs and not one reference to the flying spaghetti monster et. al., shame on you.

[spurgistan]

I'd imagine that a lot of the born-again Christians can answer yes to Neoteny's original question. I haven't, but I also have little to no doubt that if I came home one day as a gay atheist conservative, my parents would really only be angry that I was going to vote for McCain.

[crapgame]

So, I ask more bluntly, "Have you ever changed your mind, or had your mind changed, about something as major as a worldview?"

Are you a skeptic or a believer?"
I'm a believer because all scientists say it's true.

Do you ever have to defend this belief?
The scientists who don't believe are a handful of corrupted heretics.

Doesn't repetition make people believe things for which there may be no basis?
Of course not. Remember...'our planet is warming up!'

But wasn't it shown that the global warming models are incorrect ?
Yes but since then, we have shown that these results are possible.

But one can rarely prove something to be impossible, right?
It's impossible for someone who is intelligent to disagree with global warming.

But the actual records world wide show that......
They're an abherration. A fluke. Look at the short-term trend!

And we received snow in North Dakota on May 10th for the first time ever.
SEE...SEE...That proves my point! Mighty strange behavior going on there.

So, the tornados, the blizzards, the monsoons, the tsunamis, the earthquakes and the crop circles.....
Yup....they're direct evidence of global warming.

Can you prove this?
You got to have faith bud. Here, watch this Al Gore sermon.

[Frigidus]

So, I ask more bluntly, "Have you ever changed your mind, or had your mind changed, about something as major as a worldview?"

Are you a skeptic or a believer?"
I'm a believer because all scientists say it's true.

Do you ever have to defend this belief?
The scientists who don't believe are a handful of corrupted heretics.

Doesn't repetition make people believe things for which there may be no basis?
Of course not. Remember...'our planet is warming up!'

But wasn't it shown that the global warming models are incorrect ?
Yes but since then, we have shown that these results are possible.

But one can rarely prove something to be impossible, right?
It's impossible for someone who is intelligent to disagree with global warming.

But the actual records world wide show that......
They're an abherration. A fluke. Look at the short-term trend!

And we received snow in North Dakota on May 10th for the first time ever.
SEE...SEE...That proves my point! Mighty strange behavior going on there.

So, the tornados, the blizzards, the monsoons, the tsunamis, the earthquakes and the crop circles.....
Yup....they're direct evidence of global warming.

Can you prove this?
You got to have faith bud. Here, watch this Al Gore sermon.

Not a fan of warm weather, eh? I bet the economy's doing well too...

[crapgame]

just pointing out the 'silly' global warming religion thing.

[Frigidus]

just pointing out the 'silly' global warming religion thing.

Ah, fair enough.

[Hologram]

I don't know honestly.

But I do know that my opinions have changed drastically in the last four or five years, sometimes rubbing my beliefs the wrong way, until I realized that creationism, evolution, and the big bang theory can all coexist peacefully and that the majority of the Old Testament, especially the early books, while divine in nature, were written through a very narrow, very limited view of the world. For instance, the flood more than likely flooded most of the known world of the time, not the entire world.

[Hologram]

Yes, I went from living a selfish, ignorant, and arrogent life to living as a believer in GOD THE ALMIGHTY!

I was in jail for a month when I made this life changing decision. It was due to clear thinking as it was the 1st time in 8 years previous that I was off the weed.

When I was on the weed lots of thoughts of our existence went through my head but all seemed ridiculas once my mind was cleared of the foggyness that weed so perfectly provides.

Does that answer your question?

PS: That achy feeling you get is called "GUILT". The thoughts that are going threw your head after you read this are "THOUGHTS OF DENIAL".

No one ever said the truth would be easy to accept.

Ive done a lot of booze and drugs in my time , like religion they can be a useful emotional crutch , but in the end I just got bored with them. As I got older I simply learnt to chill a lot more and now find I dont need any form of stimulant, you however do so I win right !
I jest of course,each to his own is my motto, but am quite serious when I say your holier than thou attitude is utterly nauseating.

I'm a Christian and I'm nauseated!

Your zeal is great, but accusing people and having a holier than thou attitude is what makes other people hate you, Christianity, and religion in general.

Remember the old adage that came from Christ himself: Let he among us without sin be the first to condemn.

[jonesthecurl]

To go back to the original question:

Yes: as a small child I was taught that 2 x 2 = 4, the battle of Hastings was in 1066, and Jesus loves you, as equivalent things. All true, nothing to get excited about.

One day I heard a preacher (on a school cruise to Spain and Portugal) who said, "if Jesus was real, this is very important". I'd never thought about that before (see above), and believed it to be true (see above).

I spent several years as a devout, nay fanatic Christian, attending church ever week at least once, and read the whole of the Bible (something which few of the debaters on various threads can claim). My family came to think that I'd become a "sky pilot" myself - so did I.

I've just realised how late it is, and I need to sleep.

There are two more equally huge "conversions" to come.

Same Jones-time, Same Jones-Channel, soon.

[bbqpenguin]

yes.

[Neoteny]

Indeed.

[Jucdor]

just pointing out the 'silly' global warming religion thing.

You should really look more closely into the predictions and calculations. I for once was very much convinced when my hardcore anti-global warming scientist friend all of a sudden changed his opinion after he had spent a couple of days doing some calculations himself and said that indeed the amount of carbondioxide we emit is bound to have a marginal effect on the global warmthness of the Earth. Marginal that is still enough to raise the temperature as much as the predictions go. I'm not a mathematician myself so I really just try to have a balanced view by reading news from different camps and listening to guys who know more about it than I do, but the way I see it is that there are only a handfull of scientist who don't agree that the earth is warming and they seem to be all American (and most probably on ExxonMobil's payroll).

[Frigidus]

just pointing out the 'silly' global warming religion thing.

You should really look more closely into the predictions and calculations. I for once was very much convinced when my hardcore anti-global warming scientist friend all of a sudden changed his opinion after he had spent a couple of days doing some calculations himself and said that indeed the amount of carbondioxide we emit is bound to have a marginal effect on the global warmthness of the Earth. Marginal that is still enough to raise the temperature as much as the predictions go. I'm not a mathematician myself so I really just try to have a balanced view by reading news from different camps and listening to guys who know more about it than I do, but the way I see it is that there are only a handfull of scientist who don't agree that the earth is warming and they seem to be all American (and most probably on ExxonMobil's payroll).

At this point, for me at least, the only question is whether humanity is the primary cause of the warming or if it is simply the natural shift of the planet. Either way, I don't intend to get a permanent home on the coast.

[reminisco]

At this point, for me at least, the only question is whether humanity is the primary cause of the warming or if it is simply the natural shift of the planet. Either way, I don't intend to get a permanent home on the coast.

it is a natural cycle of the planet.

but it's a really safe bet that we're speeding it up with emissions. so safe a bet that there's this whole Kyoto Treaty thing you may have heard of.

i'd rather waste money on potentially humanity preserving alternative energy sources rather than all of the money and lives we've wasted in pursuit of the other energy source.

and if we're wrong, so what? honestly, how does this even get injected into a religion thread?

religion has nothing to do with that, but bad people use it to mask their malfeasance.

[tzor]

I'm not a mathematician myself so I really just try to have a balanced view by reading news from different camps and listening to guys who know more about it than I do, but the way I see it is that there are only a handfull of scientist who don't agree that the earth is warming and they seem to be all American (and most probably on ExxonMobil's payroll).

But the question isn 't about global warming; it is the impact of CO2 on that global warming.
If the impact of CO2 is marginal compared to other factors then this is important.
If the trend of global warming is actually short term then this is important.

There are a lot of scientists not just in the US who question the direct cause/effect of CO2 and global warming. I recall hearing about a number of scientists who complained that Gore's inconvenient bar chart actually showed CO2 lagging temperatures by a few hundred years which they assert means that higher CO2 is caused by global warming as the oceans release the gas into the air, not the other way around. Others (again in Europe) insist that solar activity regulates cloud cover which impacts global warming more.

What''s the point and why do I care? Well really when people say we use too much fossil fuel, I'm cool with that. That is why I drive a Prius.

When they say we have to replace all our light bulbs with bulbs that contain toxic materials and require a haz mat operation should they accidentally break I am suddenly not cool with that.

When they say our only solution is to go nuclear and give generations yet to be born a ton of nuclear waste that we have no frigging clue how to store ... never mind the potential for weapons of mass destruction I am suddenly exceptionally not cool with that!

All for the Gospel of Gore.

And believe me if the Pope tried to pull the same shit on me I would equally wag my finger at him also.

[crapgame]

reminesco said-

religion has nothing to do with that, but bad people use it to mask their malfeasance

Am I missing something here? It takes twice as much 'faith' to believe that we should be sinking trillions into 'combatting' global warming, than it would to believe there was a man 2000 years ago called Jesus.

And regards the 'handful' of scientists who don't agree with global warming, there are thousands. Now as to the comeback 'well they're not real scientists because they aren't peer reviewed', sorry, it won't fly. Facts are facts are facts. regardless of who looks at them. And the 'independent' review of facts went out the window on this issue long ago. it is not a consensus that scientists are supposed to be after, but a systematic, scientific, review of issues.

Unless you place global warming into the 'faith category' (which I do), you look upon it as disconcerted. unsupportable. A rehash of the global warming/cooling fad which occurred in the 70's.
And Preacher Gore and apostles give me the low-down on it every week.
So I don't have to worry about silly little things like facts anymore.

[protectedbygold]

And Preacher Gore and apostles give me the low-down on it every week. So I don't have to worry about silly little things like facts anymore.

Where does the congregation meet?

[crapgame]

Be there or be out of touch with reality.

http://churchofglobalwarming.com/

[MeDeFe]

Can you say "Prank"?

[jonesthecurl]

Can you say "Prank"?

Enough rhyming slang now - I'M the cockney.

[PhatJoey]

Think for yourself. Al Gore and his cronies are just alarmists who really know very little about real science. Why else does he continually refuse to meet in an open debate regarding his claims? He can only spew the information he has been told. Not anything he himself can prove or disprove. Global warming is all a bunch of bull.

Evidence of Global Cooling
Thursday , February 28, 2008

By Brit Hume

Cold Reception

Tuesday we told you about several areas around the planet experiencing record cold and snowpack — in the face of all the predictions of global warming.

Now there is word that all four major global temperature tracking outlets have released data showing that temperatures have dropped significantly over the last year. California meteorologist Anthony Watts says the amount of cooling ranges from 65-hundredths of a degree Centigrade to 75-hundreds of a degree.

That is said to be a value large enough to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years. It is reportedly the single fastest temperature change ever recorded — up or down.

Some scientists contend the cooling is the result of reduced solar activity — which they say is a larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases.

[jiminski]

Jesus Christ

[jonesthecurl]

To go back to the original question:

Yes: as a small child I was taught that 2 x 2 = 4, the battle of Hastings was in 1066, and Jesus loves you, as equivalent things. All true, nothing to get excited about.

One day I heard a preacher (on a school cruise to Spain and Portugal) who said, "if Jesus was real, this is very important". I'd never thought about that before (see above), and believed it to be true (see above).

I spent several years as a devout, nay fanatic Christian, attending church ever week at least once, and read the whole of the Bible (something which few of the debaters on various threads can claim). My family came to think that I'd become a "sky pilot" myself - so did I.

I've just realised how late it is, and I need to sleep.

There are two more equally huge "conversions" to come.

So: my first Damascus experience is: someone points out that if God/Jesus is real, it's the most important thing there is. I had no doubt it was true, having been taught so as a matter of course.

I think you may see what the second Damascus experience is going to be...

It's about 4 years later. I'm in church listening to the vicar's sermon (His was called, honestly, "the Reverend Priest". Later matched by the guy that performed the ceremony at my brother's first wedding, in Scotland - "The Reverend McVicar").
He's just made an appeal for money for some foreign disaster, I forget what. The poster for the appeal was headed "God's Frozen People", I remember that. Reverend Priest goes on to the appeal for the church roof (it was a 13th-century church, slightly falling apart), and actually jokes about the previous appeal, saying that we would be "God's Frozen People" if we didn't get the hole fixed. I don't know exactly why, but something about his smugness and inability to to care about people who were really suffering, suddenly made a whole lot of small doubts I'd been having gell. I spotted the hole in the preacher's argument that had taken me on this trail. "Hang on", said some part of me, "this is all only valid if the whole God/Jesus thing is real. I only think it is because people have told me that my whole life. If I'd grown up somewhere else, the obvious faith would be a different one."

And in that one moment of insight, I lost all patience with the course of my life for the previous four years. I've never willingly attended church since.

Third Damascus moment still to come.

[Nataki Yiro]

You should listen to your mother Neo...

[Frigidus]

You should listen to your mother Neo...

Eh? That seems kind of random.