The Holocaust

[thegreekdog]

I believe Pennsyltucky has the most race-related hate groups in the United States. So proud of my state... so proud.

Are you sure? I thought it was Lousiana per capita and southern California by numbers? That said... I do live here.

I heard it on the radio about 3 years ago. I don't remember the radio station, but it was here in Philadelphia. So, long story short - I don't have a source.

[PLAYER57832]

I believe Pennsyltucky has the most race-related hate groups in the United States. So proud of my state... so proud.

Are you sure? I thought it was Lousiana per capita and southern California by numbers? That said... I do live here.

I heard it on the radio about 3 years ago. I don't remember the radio station, but it was here in Philadelphia. So, long story short - I don't have a source.

Neither do I, so we're even.

Its sad, at any rate.

Also, pure membership is only the cap. I have some close friends even who would no more dream of joining one of the hate groups than think they could fly to the moon on their own power, but still seem to think any black in town is automatically a druggie, etc. In at least 2 cases, I gently have begun to sway minds, but it is a slow process. Mostly, we just avoid certain topics.

[jbrettlip]

I believe Pennsyltucky has the most race-related hate groups in the United States. So proud of my state... so proud.

Are you sure? I thought it was Lousiana per capita and southern California by numbers? That said... I do live here.

I heard it on the radio about 3 years ago. I don't remember the radio station, but it was here in Philadelphia. So, long story short - I don't have a source.

Neither do I, so we're even.

Its sad, at any rate.

Also, pure membership is only the cap. I have some close friends even who would no more dream of joining one of the hate groups than think they could fly to the moon on their own power, but still seem to think any black in town is automatically a druggie, etc. In at least 2 cases, I gently have begun to sway minds, but it is a slow process. Mostly, we just avoid certain topics.

Are you friends with my inlaws?

[PLAYER57832]

I believe Pennsyltucky has the most race-related hate groups in the United States. So proud of my state... so proud.

Are you sure? I thought it was Lousiana per capita and southern California by numbers? That said... I do live here.

I heard it on the radio about 3 years ago. I don't remember the radio station, but it was here in Philadelphia. So, long story short - I don't have a source.

Neither do I, so we're even.

Its sad, at any rate.

Also, pure membership is only the cap. I have some close friends even who would no more dream of joining one of the hate groups than think they could fly to the moon on their own power, but still seem to think any black in town is automatically a druggie, etc. In at least 2 cases, I gently have begun to sway minds, but it is a slow process. Mostly, we just avoid certain topics.

Are you friends with my inlaws?

You never know... lol ( )

[Nobunaga]

... Interesting. There seems an increase in bigotry in the US? Most noteably white supremecy types?

... I wonder if that's true. I've not noticed but it is of course very possible, especially when the economy hits the skids.

... Perhaps I live in an enlightened State.

...

[PLAYER57832]

... Interesting. There seems an increase in bigotry in the US? Most noteably white supremecy types?

... I wonder if that's true. I've not noticed but it is of course very possible, especially when the economy hits the skids.

... Perhaps I live in an enlightened State.

...

In a lot of places it never really died, people just stopped talking about it openly. In other places it has resurged. I heard and NPR report a few months back talking about h ow the hate groups are actively targeting teenagers in Southern California schools. Prisons have long been known to be growers of hatred.

[MrPanzerGeneral]

In a way I am so sorry I stumbled upon this thread.

I have seen pure unadulterated hatred due to rascism and bigotry in my life that you wouldn't believe, whether it be from "colour of skin" through to "differing gods".

If you've ever visited the sites of Aushwitz, or the Dachau or the Belsen camps, you wouldn't doubt genocide happened there. I'm no great believer in what the state of Israel (or Iran, or Nth korea, or the U.S or the U.K or any other) has done, or is doing today. But the fact remains, history is history. To deny the death camps of nazi germany (much like denying the death camps of stalinist russia, those of british south africa, and those of the U.S mid-west), is self-deception and flying in the face of truth.

[Nobunaga]

In a way I am so sorry I stumbled upon this thread.

I have seen pure unadulterated hatred due to rascism and bigotry in my life that you wouldn't believe, whether it be from "colour of skin" through to "differing gods".

If you've ever visited the sites of Aushwitz, or the Dachau or the Belsen camps, you wouldn't doubt genocide happened there. I'm no great believer in what the state of Israel (or Iran, or Nth korea, or the U.S or the U.K or any other) has done, or is doing today. But the fact remains, history is history. To deny the death camps of nazi germany (much like denying the death camps of stalinist russia, those of british south africa, and those of the U.S mid-west), is self-deception and flying in the face of truth.

... US Midwest? Elaborate please. Native Americans?

...

[firsal901]

it DID happen

wikipedia it
its there


any way cant type anymore doin my homework

[PLAYER57832]

... US Midwest? Elaborate please. Native Americans?

...

I started to say "just Google "trail of tears" for one and "Native American Internment camps". Then I went and posted a few links myself, but I don't want to drive this important thread off topic, so I began a new thread with the links I found.

Here is the link to the new thread.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=89044

[PLAYER57832]

In a note related to the original topic, has everyone heard of the sad shooting of a gaurd at the Haulocause museum by an ederly haulocaust denier?

[Nobunaga]

... Yeah, I thought the reference was to Natives, just wanted clarification.

...

[Simon Viavant]

I don't have a clue about Sweden, but Germany definitely isn't a big holocaust denial country. They get that stuff hammered into them in about 4th grade. You can go to jail for drawing a swastika there. It's a big fucking deal there.

[Nobunaga]

I don't have a clue about Sweden, but Germany definitely isn't a big holocaust denial country. They get that stuff hammered into them in about 4th grade. You can go to jail for drawing a swastika there. It's a big fucking deal there.

... I have a problem with these laws against denial. People's expressions are being policed. Agreed that only a sick sack of shite would make such denials but policing expression of ideas, no matter how mad, seems a bit oppressive.

... What is the danger posed to individuals or society in general through the violation of these laws?

...

[b.k. barunt]

I agree. You don't fight Nazism with Nazism.


Honibaz

[PLAYER57832]

I don't have a clue about Sweden, but Germany definitely isn't a big holocaust denial country. They get that stuff hammered into them in about 4th grade. You can go to jail for drawing a swastika there. It's a big fucking deal there.

... I have a problem with these laws against denial. People's expressions are being policed. Agreed that only a sick sack of shite would make such denials but policing expression of ideas, no matter how mad, seems a bit oppressive.

... What is the danger posed to individuals or society in general through the violation of these laws?

...

The biggest danger of suppression is that you feed right into all the conspiracists. As the saying goes, nasty things flourish in the dark.

This, ironicially, may be part of why Nazism and such are now spreading so much. the internet has the effect of allowing people to shut off any voice they don't like far more effectively than ever before AND gives people the potential to find and seek many more who think like themselves. Limiting the internet is DEFINITELY not the answer, but I am not sure what is, aside from universal education. Even that, though just feeds into the conspiracists, because, after all, "their voice" is being shut out or shut down through education then.

[MrPanzerGeneral]

I agree. You don't fight Nazism with Nazism.


Honibaz

I somewhat agree too.
But I don't think you can equate " Hate Speech Laws " with nazism.

[b.k. barunt]

I equate laws against free speech with Nazism - silly me.


Honibaz

[jonesthecurl]

All states, however much they love freedom of speech, limit it to some extent. I'd guess it's against the law in most places to shout "There's a (insert derogatory racial or other term)! Let's lynch the dirty bastard right now!"
Having said that, I think my sig guy was right when he said "Having a little bit of censorship is like being a little bit pregnant". But even he argues against saying certain things in public in certain circumstances.

[owheelj]

It is pretty silly. Nazism is a fairly specific political view that is strongly in favour of nationalism, a belief in the superiority of the Aryan race etc. You're merely talking about authoritarianism, which is a much broader term that can be applied to some of the opponents of Nazism as well as to the Nazis. Apparently many people make this confusion, so you shouldn't feel too silly.

I agree that people should be allowed to think and say what they want, even if they think the holocaust did not happen and that all Jews are evil. Other people should also have the right to call those people wankers and ridicule them. The law need not come in to it.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Israel does not and has never sought the extermination of a group of people based on faith or race.

you are ignorant to the point of dark comedy

"The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people." -Moshe Yaalon, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff, 2002

[b.k. barunt]

Obviously there are some verbal outbursts that can't be allowed in certain contexts, like shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, or for that matter for a white person to shout n____ in the middle of a Harlem tenement - i believe the laws against suicide would apply there. To pass laws against "hate speeches" however opens wide a can of worms.

The definition of a "hate crime" is very arbitrary and capricious now, and is no longer restricted to ethnicity. I refer of course to the incredibly influential gay PAC, which has managed to deem any negative comments against homosexuals as "hate speech" and "bigotry". On the other hand, you can throw any kind of verbal insult at Christians, rednecks, bikers, vegetarians, etc. etc. ad nauseum. If you want your group to be protected from "hate crimes", you have to first learn to manipulate the media, and get the gullible public on your side.


Honibaz

[b.k. barunt]

Israel does not and has never sought the extermination of a group of people based on faith or race.

you are ignorant to the point of dark comedy

"The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people." -Moshe Yaalon, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff, 2002

Talk about ignorant. Do you have any idea how your post screams IGNORANCE!? Never mind, heh heh, rhetorical question.

You equate defeating someone in a war they started, and wanting them to realize that they are indeed defeated, with their extermination? Well i guess we exterminated the Japanese then right? How about the Germans? The list could go on and on shitforbrains, and you still wouldn't get it.


Honibaz

[SultanOfSurreal]

defeating someone in a war they started

yes those goddamn palestinians, how dare they not step aside and let the israelis take their land and commit war crimes against them with impunity

[owheelj]

I agree that Israel has not sought the extinction of any group of people based on faith or race. I reject the notion that the Palestinians started the conflict with Israel. The mass immigration of Jewish people into the region in the early 20th century certainly was the cause of much conflict, and when Israel became a country in 1947 it massacred and threatened all those who opposed having their houses taken away from them. I also note that there are clear distinctions between the Palestinian people and those of other surrounding nations. The countries around Israel certainly did (foolishly) start a war with Israel that they lost. The people living in Palestine and Israel at the time did not start that war and cannot be blamed for it.