Cash for Clunkers

[bedub1]

I just don't understand why they didn't take it a step further....bedub claimed to have had a car that got 18 mpg. That car is being destroyed. Why not give it to a poor person whose car only gets 10 mpg? Then you could take the 10 mpg car and ship it to mexico, since their cars aren't as environmentally friendly. The whole world could be better.

Oh yeah, and we can get US taxpayers to foot the bill for all of this.

Well...i footed the bill for myself...the government just gave me my money back. But yes, why not give the car to people that have even worse cars? Or give them to people who have no cars?

[MrWainthrope]

why not give the car to people that have even worse cars? Or give them to people who have no cars?

Because that would be socialism and communism. Which we hate. Always, and with no need to give reasons.


Giving things to people = Russia. Russia = Satan.

[jonesthecurl]

yes, but doesn't satan = obama?

[got tonkaed]

yes, but doesn't satan = obama?

thus Obama = Russia

hes a whole country!

[Phatscotty]

Are you also aware that several countries around the world have already done this scheme? Germany and France did it with a huge success, and in the UK it was also done and greatly boosted car sales. The car scrappage scheme is actually being called one of the main reasons that Germany and France are now officially out of the recession, and it has enormously helped the dealers in the UK.

Btw, Scotty you didn answer my other point. Higher fuel efficient cars means that more people have a greater amount of disposable income. Theres a clear positive message from this scheme, and one which will definitely help towards ending this recession.

yeah well thats great but how do you justify better milage and a few extra dollars savings in gas to borrowing 3 billion dollars with interest? what is it about cost that makes you so dismissive of it?

[Titanic]

Are you also aware that several countries around the world have already done this scheme? Germany and France did it with a huge success, and in the UK it was also done and greatly boosted car sales. The car scrappage scheme is actually being called one of the main reasons that Germany and France are now officially out of the recession, and it has enormously helped the dealers in the UK.

Btw, Scotty you didn answer my other point. Higher fuel efficient cars means that more people have a greater amount of disposable income. Theres a clear positive message from this scheme, and one which will definitely help towards ending this recession.

yeah well thats great but how do you justify better milage and a few extra dollars savings in gas to borrowing 3 billion dollars with interest? what is it about cost that makes you so dismissive of it?

A few extra dollars savings? Its much more then that when you consider the average mileage that a car does (in the UK it is around 12,000 miles per annum, and I can only assume in the USA it is much more), and then the car they are now driving does 25% or more mpg. Thats a huge saving, and could make the difference between declaring bankruptcy or selling your house and managing to survive through the recession.

[thegreekdog]

I voted okay for three reasons. On the pro side, it did help people get more fuel efficient cars, and they did it without passing restrictive laws. Instead, they did it with a carrot, rather than a stick. I like those kinds of things.

On the con side, there are two things:
(1) Where is the money coming from to pay for this program? To me, this smacks of more deficit spending, this time to save the environment (which is fine). However, I worry that in 10 years (maybe less, maybe more), we are all going to be paying for these programs that helped people get new cars.
(2) After the housing crisis, which was perpetrated, among other things, by getting people to purchase new homes that they could not afford, having a program which allows people to purchase new cars that they might not be able to afford without the cash for clunkers program, is rather misguided. I'm not sure people have talked about this aspect of the program, but if you have a 1992 Pontiac 6000 sitting in your driveway, chances are you haven't purchased a new car because you can't afford to make payments on a new car. You're therefore probably not going to be able to make payments on a new car even after receiving a $4500 trade-in credit.

Anyway, if #s 1 and 2 on the con side start to happen, I'll say the program was a failure.

[jbrettlip]

I voted okay for three reasons. On the pro side, it did help people get more fuel efficient cars, and they did it without passing restrictive laws. Instead, they did it with a carrot, rather than a stick. I like those kinds of things.

On the con side, there are two things:
(1) Where is the money coming from to pay for this program? To me, this smacks of more deficit spending, this time to save the environment (which is fine). However, I worry that in 10 years (maybe less, maybe more), we are all going to be paying for these programs that helped people get new cars.
(2) After the housing crisis, which was perpetrated, among other things, by getting people to purchase new homes that they could not afford, having a program which allows people to purchase new cars that they might not be able to afford without the cash for clunkers program, is rather misguided. I'm not sure people have talked about this aspect of the program, but if you have a 1992 Pontiac 6000 sitting in your driveway, chances are you haven't purchased a new car because you can't afford to make payments on a new car. You're therefore probably not going to be able to make payments on a new car even after receiving a $4500 trade-in credit.

Anyway, if #s 1 and 2 on the con side start to happen, I'll say the program was a failure.

Not to mention, insuring a new car.

[Phatscotty]

k, the program is over now. lets see the results next month and the month after.

Ok, here are some facts already. The top 3 trade in are all American made, The top 3 purchases are all foreign made. NICE MOVE AMERICA! oh and here is the sales slump as promised by someone with a brain

FFFFUUUUTTTTTUUUUUUURRRRREEEEEEEE SSSSAAAAAALLLLLLLEEEEESSSSSS

UPDATE:Toyota To Cut Output Capacity; Long Sales Slump Feared

FROM YOUR beloved CNN http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... RTUNE5.htm

[Titanic]

k, the program is over now. lets see the results next month and the month after.

Ok, here are some facts already. The top 3 trade in are all American made, The top 3 purchases are all foreign made. NICE MOVE AMERICA! oh and here is the sales slump as promised by someone with a brain

FFFFUUUUTTTTTUUUUUUURRRRREEEEEEEE SSSSAAAAAALLLLLLLEEEEESSSSSS

UPDATE:Toyota To Cut Output Capacity; Long Sales Slump Feared

FROM YOUR beloved CNN http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... RTUNE5.htm

Toyota are cutting it due to a slump in global demand. It has very little to do with the cash for clunkers programme.

Also so what if people want to buy foreign car, it just means that they are better cars then the ones US companies make. Add to that the fact that people are buying these cars from dealerships on US soil, so the dealerships still benefit, and a lot of the car these foreign companies make are from factories within the USA anyway.

[thegreekdog]

Yeah, most foreign cars are made in the US. All that BS you hear about buying American are just that... BS... a perfect example of corporate spin. I'll put it this way, if you're a true fiscal conservative, you'll buy the best quality car for the cheapest price (to promote competition, if anything else). Two words... Hyundai... Elantra... 350 miles per tank of gas, 100,000 mile warranty, and cheap as dirt.

[bedub1]

Yeah, most foreign cars are made in the US. All that BS you hear about buying American are just that... BS... a perfect example of corporate spin. I'll put it this way, if you're a true fiscal conservative, you'll buy the best quality car for the cheapest price (to promote competition, if anything else). Two words... Hyundai... Elantra... 350 miles per tank of gas, 100,000 mile warranty, and cheap as dirt.

the honda I bought has 50% of it's part made in the USA, including the Engine. It is also assembled in Ohio. I bought it from a USA citizen, from a dealership here in the USA. It's an american car, more than it is from any other country.

[Titanic]

Yeah, most foreign cars are made in the US. All that BS you hear about buying American are just that... BS... a perfect example of corporate spin. I'll put it this way, if you're a true fiscal conservative, you'll buy the best quality car for the cheapest price (to promote competition, if anything else). Two words... Hyundai... Elantra... 350 miles per tank of gas, 100,000 mile warranty, and cheap as dirt.

Finally found something we agree on

[thegreekdog]

Yeah, most foreign cars are made in the US. All that BS you hear about buying American are just that... BS... a perfect example of corporate spin. I'll put it this way, if you're a true fiscal conservative, you'll buy the best quality car for the cheapest price (to promote competition, if anything else). Two words... Hyundai... Elantra... 350 miles per tank of gas, 100,000 mile warranty, and cheap as dirt.

Finally found something we agree on

We probably agree on a lot. But, you don't want to agree with me too much, otherwise you'd be labelled a racist hick.

[Titanic]

Yeah, most foreign cars are made in the US. All that BS you hear about buying American are just that... BS... a perfect example of corporate spin. I'll put it this way, if you're a true fiscal conservative, you'll buy the best quality car for the cheapest price (to promote competition, if anything else). Two words... Hyundai... Elantra... 350 miles per tank of gas, 100,000 mile warranty, and cheap as dirt.

Finally found something we agree on

We probably agree on a lot. But, you don't want to agree with me too much, otherwise you'd be labelled a racist hick.

Lol, I couldn't really care less what people on forums call me. Yer, we probably agree on a lot more, just all the topics on here are made to conflict ideologies.

[Phatscotty]

I applaud anyone's efforts to use less energy. However, I sense a strong defeatist attitude from you on the American Auto industries behalf.

[Titanic]

I applaud anyone's efforts to use less energy. However, I sense a strong defeatist attitude from you on the American Auto industries behalf.

What? Can you expand on that, I really don't understand that statement.

[cpurcell]

I think that the Cash for Clunkers was a horrible mistake!

The cash flows from:

• Responsible Taxpayers to
• The Government to
• The Car Dealers to
• mostly Oversees Car Manufacturers

Not everyone deserves a new car, just like not everyone deserves health care!

Now, instead of reusing these older cars, we're simply trashing them, and exporting our money over to China and Japan! This is the wrong way to stimulate our economy, and there were so many other options that we should've exploited!

---C

[Symmetry]

I think that the Cash for Clunkers was a horrible mistake!

The cash flows from:

• Responsible Taxpayers to
• The Government to
• The Car Dealers to
• mostly Oversees Car Manufacturers

Not everyone deserves a new car, just like not everyone deserves health care!

Now, instead of reusing these older cars, we're simply trashing them, and exporting our money over to China and Japan! This is the wrong way to stimulate our economy, and there were so many other options that we should've exploited!

---C

You realise that the economic crisis is global, right? And that the economic system is not a zero-sum game? Japanese companies employ large numbers of Americans and develop great technology.

I think it's a shame that American car companies are suffering, but I don't see why they should be supported out of a misplaced of sense of patriotism while they produce inferior products.

It's also worth noting that it's pretty natural that the old cars traded in were from US companies, and many of the newer cars purchased are from foreign firms. You really just need to compare the markets of different periods. Foreign firms have been making cars that are better, on average, than the output of US companies for years now, while the American car industry has been in decline.

It's extremely rare to see American cars in most countries around the world. Ford being the major exception. People just don't like them.

Maybe with the bail-outs they'll change and embrace a better model for business and design. That will involve foreign expertise though.

[Frigidus]

I think it's a shame that American car companies are suffering, but I don't see why they should be supported out of a misplaced of sense of patriotism while they produce inferior products.

On a quick side note, I would like to say that I am not at all sad to see American car companies biting it hard. The transmission in my family's Dodge Grand Carvan had an issue recently, and after getting it checked out yesterday it turns out that it's totally shot, after only 80000 miles. The transmission was, of course, warrantied for 70,000 miles. That's great, Chrysler, way to make sure that my car gets the minimal bang for my buck by ensuring it goes to pieces shortly after the warranty expires! I'm definitely going to continue buying American when you use shitty tactics aiming to force me to buy a new vehicle twice as often as I would have to buying Japanese. That sort of shit epitomizes how bastardized American capitalism is. It's not about providing excellent service in the hopes that your customers will continue to support you, it's about shafting people for as much money as possible, selling out your future so you can make it rain now. Douchebags.

[Phatscotty]

I think it's a shame that American car companies are suffering, but I don't see why they should be supported out of a misplaced of sense of patriotism while they produce inferior products.

On a quick side note, I would like to say that I am not at all sad to see American car companies biting it hard. The transmission in my family's Dodge Grand Carvan had an issue recently, and after getting it checked out yesterday it turns out that it's totally shot, after only 80000 miles. The transmission was, of course, warrantied for 70,000 miles. That's great, Chrysler, way to make sure that my car gets the minimal bang for my buck by ensuring it goes to pieces shortly after the warranty expires! I'm definitely going to continue buying American when you use shitty tactics aiming to force me to buy a new vehicle twice as often as I would have to buying Japanese. That sort of shit epitomizes how bastardized American capitalism is. It's not about providing excellent service in the hopes that your customers will continue to support you, it's about shafting people for as much money as possible, selling out your future so you can make it rain now. Douchebags.

everyone knows about chevy transmissions, something your family should have definitely taken into account before buying one! what is bastardized is your futile opinion about millions of american workers, 10's of millions of those workers family members and children being affected for the worse.....based on a SINGLE chevy transmission??? you are not all that sad about that, but no doubt im sure you will find a way to spin this tragedy into your caring about the level of these same families healthcare plans. so, just curious, what did you vote in this poll? yes....i bet. contradict yourself daily????? wow people see how politics can brainwash common sense?

[Symmetry]

I think it's a shame that American car companies are suffering, but I don't see why they should be supported out of a misplaced of sense of patriotism while they produce inferior products.

On a quick side note, I would like to say that I am not at all sad to see American car companies biting it hard. The transmission in my family's Dodge Grand Carvan had an issue recently, and after getting it checked out yesterday it turns out that it's totally shot, after only 80000 miles. The transmission was, of course, warrantied for 70,000 miles. That's great, Chrysler, way to make sure that my car gets the minimal bang for my buck by ensuring it goes to pieces shortly after the warranty expires! I'm definitely going to continue buying American when you use shitty tactics aiming to force me to buy a new vehicle twice as often as I would have to buying Japanese. That sort of shit epitomizes how bastardized American capitalism is. It's not about providing excellent service in the hopes that your customers will continue to support you, it's about shafting people for as much money as possible, selling out your future so you can make it rain now. Douchebags.

everyone knows about chevy transmissions, something your family should have definitely taken into account before buying one! what is bastardized is your futile opinion about millions of american workers, 10's of millions of those workers family members and children being affected for the worse.....based on a chevy transmission??? you are not all that sad about that, but no doubt im sure you will find a way to spin this tragedy into your caring about the level of these same families healthcare plans. so, just curious, what did you vote in this poll? yes....i bet. contradict yourself daily????? wow

Yeah- so maybe everyone knowing about chevy transmissions is a good reason why people aren't buying them. It's not a good thing when everyone knows that a product is crap. Slapping an American flag on it and saying "But it's OUR crap" is not great advertising.

Anyway, as has been pretty well noted so far, American workers also build cars for foreign companies. Sometimes- and this may well shock you, not in the US.

[Frigidus]

I think it's a shame that American car companies are suffering, but I don't see why they should be supported out of a misplaced of sense of patriotism while they produce inferior products.

On a quick side note, I would like to say that I am not at all sad to see American car companies biting it hard. The transmission in my family's Dodge Grand Carvan had an issue recently, and after getting it checked out yesterday it turns out that it's totally shot, after only 80000 miles. The transmission was, of course, warrantied for 70,000 miles. That's great, Chrysler, way to make sure that my car gets the minimal bang for my buck by ensuring it goes to pieces shortly after the warranty expires! I'm definitely going to continue buying American when you use shitty tactics aiming to force me to buy a new vehicle twice as often as I would have to buying Japanese. That sort of shit epitomizes how bastardized American capitalism is. It's not about providing excellent service in the hopes that your customers will continue to support you, it's about shafting people for as much money as possible, selling out your future so you can make it rain now. Douchebags.

everyone knows about chevy transmissions, something your family should have definitely taken into account before buying one! what is bastardized is your futile opinion about millions of american workers, 10's of millions of those workers family members and children being affected for the worse.....based on a chevy transmission??? you are not all that sad about that, but no doubt im sure you will find a way to spin this tragedy into your caring about the level of these same families healthcare plans. so, just curious, what did you vote in this poll? yes....i bet. contradict yourself daily????? wow

Yeah- so maybe everyone knowing about chevy transmissions is a good reason why people aren't buying them. It's not a good thing when everyone knows that a product is crap. Slapping an American flag on it and saying "But it's OUR crap" is not great advertising.

Anyway, as has been pretty well noted so far, American workers also build cars for foreign companies. Sometimes- and this may well shock you, not in the US.

Quite. Not to mention that the sole reason we bought the piece of crap in the first place was because we were pulled in by the "Buy American" bit, you presumptive cock. And yeah, you are a complete hypocrite calling me out on this while not being willing to suffer a minor tax increase to care for sick Americans. You're a pawn of American corporations, as is demonstrated by your ass-backwards priorities, and if you think I care about my country less then you do you're completely deluded.

[Phatscotty]

haha, gotchya. Yeah sorry not every part in every car is perfect. as you damn well know but have surely completely discounted in your "rational" thought, every car has 1 certain thing that is bad about it. I am laughing at you calling out the chevy truck on its transmission, nothing more! TA!

[Titanic]

haha, gotchya. Yeah sorry not every part in every car is perfect. as you damn well know but have surely completely discounted in your "rational" thought, every car has 1 certain thing that is bad about it. I am laughing at you calling out the chevy truck on its transmission, nothing more! TA!

No car may be perfect, but when looking at the whole package American cars just dont measure up to cars from the Far East or Europe.