Don't Ask, Don't Tell

[Juan_Bottom]

A matter of national insecurity. lol

Disregarding the fact that it's generally harder to kick the shit out of a black guy,

So this is why Pimpdave has you foed....
You are confused. Not all black people are from the streets, and not all gay men are girly men.

and having some guy that you hate lusting after you in the public showers.

You must think pretty highly of yourself.

But there will always be closet pervs.

Sorry if I offended anyone with this, it's just one of my biggest pet peeves. It's hard to talk about while being "politically correct" at the same time. If you think I'm homophobic, then consider the fact that I have openly gay friends...

Do they know that you call them "friends?" Everything that you wrote there was just... omg man, just OMG.

When I was in high school there were five of us who always hung out. Best friends. We're still good friends to this day. One of them is a gay man, and I would never say stuff like that to him. His sexual orientation has never once bothered me.

Blacks were eventually accepted once they proved that they could overcome the stereotype placed upon them.

So you just want gays to overcome the stereotype that people like you have put on them first?

or any other situation where there could be any hint of arousal to a gay man.

Wait.... you know what would arouse a gay man?....

Hell, women aren't even allowed to become infantry in the Marines.

Women aren't allowed to fight for different reasons than sexuality.
Pregnant soldiers are a bit of a problem, so are their physical abilities. There is also the very serious problem of rape.... And the problems from wounded female soldiers laying in "no man's land."
The Russians defeated the Germans in WWII, BTW.
Fastposted

Sexual tension, tension of any kind, detracts from the basic mission of every soldier out there.

Tell the straight soldiers to stop having sex with the gay ones and blamo, problem solved.
It's something like 14% of people are gay BTW. No doubt some of that 14% has always and forever served with distinction.

knowing that he is probably checking out your ass during PT?

You think a lot of yourself.

That you wouldn't fell the slightest bit uncomfortable sleeping in the same room as him

I've even shared.... A TENT!
Thank-you thank-you.... it's a proud accomplishment, I know!
Dude, I even bounced on his trampoline.... RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM!

And you know what else? He was the best wing man ever. And a hell of a boxer.

If you are saying that you wouldn't feel the slightest bit uncomfortable constantly being next to a guy who wants to shove his dick up your ass, that's bullshit.

Face it, you're just a homophob.

[BigBallinStalin]

Burrito, I'm a bit surprised at this nonsense. I dunno, how do I politely tell someone to be open-minded and less ignorant, huh? Hey, maybe you're just a homophob, or maybe you have or have had homosexual thoughts and this topic is just subconsciously unleashing the forces of Old and Evil from within you? ( just kidding). But, relax, my friend, there are many homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals, and transsexuals, and people in between (and/or some of the above?); it's no big deal, just shrug it off and get over it.

Obama's said something that should've been said awhile ago. Having one of the greatest and most known organizations of the United States discriminating against others based on their sexual preference really undermines our nation's values as a country which should stand for equality and freedom.

[john9blue]

Why not let cripples in the military too? Paraplegics? They deserve the right to give their lives on the front lines...

Is it so hard to accept that not everybody is equally suited to serve? Where do we stop inclusion in favor of the morale/attitude/capabilities of our troops? If you think that everyone in the military can just get along happily no matter what then you are shitting rainbows.

I know I am bordering on offensive here but I don't really care. This is the military, not politics.

Also, I said some gay people, not all. In fact, I made it clear that some are not like that (hence why I have friends that are homosexual).

[HapSmo19]

It's positively fucking disgusting that if a man or woman is ready and willing to give their life for their country you're going to oppose that because of their sexual orientation.

I never said that. I oppose the "openly gay" in the military because nothing good can come from it.
IT'S THE FUCKING MILITARY NOT STUDIO 54.

Do you realize how ass backwards and idiotic you sound?

No, you.

The country's gradually attempting at eliminating the policies written that blatantly enable discrimination, deal with it.

Unless it's descrimination towards those who oppose.

[Titanic]

Why not let cripples in the military too? Paraplegics? They deserve the right to give their lives on the front lines...

Is it so hard to accept that not everybody is equally suited to serve? Where do we stop inclusion in favor of the morale/attitude/capabilities of our troops? If you think that everyone in the military can just get along happily no matter what then you are shitting rainbows.

I know I am bordering on offensive here but I don't really care. This is the military, not politics.

Also, I said some gay people, not all. In fact, I made it clear that some are not like that (hence why I have friends that are homosexual).

How is that even a valid comparison? Are you saying that gay people are physically disabled in some way? That because they are gay they are unable to do that job as your average heterosexual guy? Physically they are the exact same as us, 100%, its a shame that mentally you are retarded.

It's positively fucking disgusting that if a man or woman is ready and willing to give their life for their country you're going to oppose that because of their sexual orientation.

I never said that. I oppose the "openly gay" in the military because nothing good can come from it.
IT'S THE FUCKING MILITARY NOT STUDIO 54.

The army has fired gay people who can translate from Arabic to English at a time when they are in desperate need of people with these abilities. The army has fired soldiers on the front line at a time when recruitment numbers are falling due to the deaths of soldiers. Theres two cases holding onto openly gay members of the military would have provided something good. Also, if all of these "gays" are lusting after straight men and providing a bad environment for unit cohesion, why such a distinction between closet gays and openly gays in the military?

[Juan_Bottom]

What I'm hearing is that gays are unfit because a normal man wont tolerate them.

[Burrito]

I'm not a homophobe. That would imply fear. I am not scared of them. I dislike them.

[Titanic]

I'm not a homophobe. That would imply fear. I am not scared of them. I dislike them.

Well done, now go stand in the corner and bounce the ball whilst the big boys talk about things they actually understand.

[Skittles!]

I'm not a homophobe. That would imply fear. I am not scared of them. I dislike them.

Maybe you need to just grow up and not be so ignorant then? It might just help to get to know a homosexual male or female, instead of just basing off random stereotypes which are mostly untrue, and those that fit the stereotypes are fucking idiots.

Is it so hard to accept that not everybody is equally suited to serve? Where do we stop inclusion in favor of the morale/attitude/capabilities of our troops? If you think that everyone in the military can just get along happily no matter what then you are shitting rainbows.

You do realise not all homosexual males will sign up for the military, right? Most will do it because they are proud to serve their country, and it's good money, and it's what they want to do. Sure, some will just come to perve (but they may be too unfit to even get in), and if you're too insecure to mind that then you need to grow up.

[notyou2]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Well stated Holo.

[Frigidus]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Well stated Holo.

But...but...where's the fake macho bullshit covering up discomfort with one's own sexuality that people who usually aren't even in the military love so much? Beating up gays is an American pasttime that all "normal guys" engage in!

[Burrito]

Disregarding the moral aspects of integrating homosexuals into the armed forces (I'm against it), practically it is a terrible idea. Not only will the gay recruits literally have the sh*t kicked out of them by all the normal guys in there (at least for male recruits), integrating gays into the military will detract from unit integrity. I wouldn't be comfortable living in close proximity to a homosexual. It would create unnecessary tension.

Are you honestly telling me that I, my fellow Marines, and our fellow service members aren't professional enough to conduct ourselves in a professional manner around gays? Are you fucking serious?

I don't care whether they're straight, gay, bi, transgender, what have you, so long as when the shit hits the fan and rounds start coming down range, they return fire and save my ass, just as I'd save them.

Well stated Holo.

But...but...where's the fake macho bullshit covering up discomfort with one's own sexuality that people who usually aren't even in the military love so much? Beating up gays is an American pasttime that all "normal guys" engage in!

Of course, everything that I profess not to like, I secretly do like. I mean, I tell people that I don't like fish, so it must be my favorite food in the world. I think people that have 4 foot tall liberty spike dyed pink look like douches, so of course I secretly wish to style my hair like that. And of course, I don't like gays, so I must actually be gay, right?

[Frigidus]

Of course, everything that I profess not to like, I secretly do like. I mean, I tell people that I don't like fish, so it must be my favorite food in the world. I think people that have 4 foot tall liberty spike dyed pink look like douches, so of course I secretly wish to style my hair like that. And of course, I don't like gays, so I must actually be gay, right?

I'm not saying that you are gay, but the way that you view gays is quite telling in a different way. For instance, you say that you don't fear them but rather dislike them, but you also say that you would be uncomfortable being around them. I can only imagine that your opposition to homosexuality exists because you feel that it is gross, for lack of a better word. To me this shows that you view sexuality not as part of human nature but as part of someone's personality.

[Burrito]

Of course, everything that I profess not to like, I secretly do like. I mean, I tell people that I don't like fish, so it must be my favorite food in the world. I think people that have 4 foot tall liberty spike dyed pink look like douches, so of course I secretly wish to style my hair like that. And of course, I don't like gays, so I must actually be gay, right?

I'm not saying that you are gay, but the way that you view gays is quite telling in a different way. For instance, you say that you don't fear them but rather dislike them, but you also say that you would be uncomfortable being around them. I can only imagine that your opposition to homosexuality exists because you feel that it is gross, for lack of a better word. To me this shows that you view sexuality not as part of human nature but as part of someone's personality.

Yes some stuff is just wrong. Tell me what you think of incest. As long as there are no kids, there isn't really any problem with it, right? I mean, if they want to screw their sisters or moms, that is their right, right? There is no real logical reason for it to be wrong. Yet it is.

Anyways, this argument isn't about the morality of homosexuality, it is about whether or not it is a good idea to keep the don't ask don't tell policy in the military.

[HapSmo19]

I'm not saying that you are gay, but the way that you view gays is quite telling in a different way. For instance, you say that you don't fear them but rather dislike them, but you also say that you would be uncomfortable being around them. I can only imagine that your opposition to homosexuality exists because you feel that it is gross, for lack of a better word. To me this shows that you view sexuality not as part of human nature but as part of someone's personality.

Now explain what being openly gay has to do with being an on-duty, professional soldier.

[Hologram]

Of course, everything that I profess not to like, I secretly do like. I mean, I tell people that I don't like fish, so it must be my favorite food in the world. I think people that have 4 foot tall liberty spike dyed pink look like douches, so of course I secretly wish to style my hair like that. And of course, I don't like gays, so I must actually be gay, right?

I'm not saying that you are gay, but the way that you view gays is quite telling in a different way. For instance, you say that you don't fear them but rather dislike them, but you also say that you would be uncomfortable being around them. I can only imagine that your opposition to homosexuality exists because you feel that it is gross, for lack of a better word. To me this shows that you view sexuality not as part of human nature but as part of someone's personality.

Yes some stuff is just wrong. Tell me what you think of incest. As long as there are no kids, there isn't really any problem with it, right? I mean, if they want to screw their sisters or moms, that is their right, right? There is no real logical reason for it to be wrong. Yet it is.

Anyways, this argument isn't about the morality of homosexuality, it is about whether or not it is a good idea to keep the don't ask don't tell policy in the military.

Think about it. Back in the forties and fifties, people thought the same for blacks. That whites wouldn't be able to work with them, they'd degrade unit cohesion and all that. Sure, it was a bumpy start, but it's working now, isn't it? No more black-only units, I have several black friends in my detachment and I don't give a second thought to it.

What makes you think the process for gays will be any different?

[Burrito]

Of course, everything that I profess not to like, I secretly do like. I mean, I tell people that I don't like fish, so it must be my favorite food in the world. I think people that have 4 foot tall liberty spike dyed pink look like douches, so of course I secretly wish to style my hair like that. And of course, I don't like gays, so I must actually be gay, right?

I'm not saying that you are gay, but the way that you view gays is quite telling in a different way. For instance, you say that you don't fear them but rather dislike them, but you also say that you would be uncomfortable being around them. I can only imagine that your opposition to homosexuality exists because you feel that it is gross, for lack of a better word. To me this shows that you view sexuality not as part of human nature but as part of someone's personality.

Yes some stuff is just wrong. Tell me what you think of incest. As long as there are no kids, there isn't really any problem with it, right? I mean, if they want to screw their sisters or moms, that is their right, right? There is no real logical reason for it to be wrong. Yet it is.

Anyways, this argument isn't about the morality of homosexuality, it is about whether or not it is a good idea to keep the don't ask don't tell policy in the military.

Think about it. Back in the forties and fifties, people thought the same for blacks. That whites wouldn't be able to work with them, they'd degrade unit cohesion and all that. Sure, it was a bumpy start, but it's working now, isn't it? No more black-only units, I have several black friends in my detachment and I don't give a second thought to it.

What makes you think the process for gays will be any different?

The discomfort with blacks was temporary because there was no real differences between them and whites, only perceived ones. The differences between gays and normal guys are very clear, even disregarding the stereotypes. They are different in a fundamental way, and although some of them may be able to trust each other, there will always be that questioning voice in the back of most guys head, wondering if the other guy is checking them out. They are obviously and blatantly different then normal guys on a fundamental level. The directive to reproduce is every animals basic directive, and they go against that.

[MeDeFe]

Of course, everything that I profess not to like, I secretly do like. I mean, I tell people that I don't like fish, so it must be my favorite food in the world. I think people that have 4 foot tall liberty spike dyed pink look like douches, so of course I secretly wish to style my hair like that. And of course, I don't like gays, so I must actually be gay, right?

I'm not saying that you are gay, but the way that you view gays is quite telling in a different way. For instance, you say that you don't fear them but rather dislike them, but you also say that you would be uncomfortable being around them. I can only imagine that your opposition to homosexuality exists because you feel that it is gross, for lack of a better word. To me this shows that you view sexuality not as part of human nature but as part of someone's personality.

Yes some stuff is just wrong. Tell me what you think of incest. As long as there are no kids, there isn't really any problem with it, right? I mean, if they want to screw their sisters or moms, that is their right, right? There is no real logical reason for it to be wrong. Yet it is.

Anyways, this argument isn't about the morality of homosexuality, it is about whether or not it is a good idea to keep the don't ask don't tell policy in the military.

Think about it. Back in the forties and fifties, people thought the same for blacks. That whites wouldn't be able to work with them, they'd degrade unit cohesion and all that. Sure, it was a bumpy start, but it's working now, isn't it? No more black-only units, I have several black friends in my detachment and I don't give a second thought to it.

What makes you think the process for gays will be any different?

The discomfort with blacks was temporary because there was no real differences between them and whites, only perceived ones. The differences between gays and normal guys are very clear, even disregarding the stereotypes. They are different in a fundamental way, and although some of them may be able to trust each other, there will always be that questioning voice in the back of most guys head, wondering if the other guy is checking them out. They are obviously and blatantly different then normal guys on a fundamental level. The directive to reproduce is every animals basic directive, and they go against that.

Goodness! Another history lesson for why blacks shouldn't serve together with whites.

[GabonX]

Say what you will about the don't ask don't tell debate, but the comparison between the civil rights movement regarding African Americans and the debate regarding homosexuals today is invalid.

One thing regards racial characteristics and the other a behavior. Unless you would assert that race is defined by behavior the comparison does not stand.

[Frigidus]

Say what you will about the don't ask don't tell debate, but the comparison between the civil rights movement regarding African Americans and the debate regarding homosexuals today is invalid.

One thing regards racial characteristics and the other a behavior. Unless you would assert that race is defined by behavior the comparison does not stand.

They are quite connected in that the same bigots are arguing against them.

[Ray Rider]

Say what you will about the don't ask don't tell debate, but the comparison between the civil rights movement regarding African Americans and the debate regarding homosexuals today is invalid.

One thing regards racial characteristics and the other a behavior. Unless you would assert that race is defined by behavior the comparison does not stand.

QFT

Skin color is innate, but studies have never shown biological causation of homosexual behavior.

[TeletubbyPrince]

Say what you will about the don't ask don't tell debate, but the comparison between the civil rights movement regarding African Americans and the debate regarding homosexuals today is invalid.

One thing regards racial characteristics and the other a behavior. Unless you would assert that race is defined by behavior the comparison does not stand.

Race can define character and many racists are more offended by action than skin colour. Your claim only takes a small part of the debate into consideration and your narrow-mindedness is quite clearly desplayed. Perhaps this can be attributed to some sort of trait you posess? Some kind of thinking that whatever you say is the be-all and end-all of any discussion? You can learn more from listening than from talking, you know.

[Army of GOD]

It's the usual answer: they're similar and they're different.

Direct comparisons are stoopid but saying they're completely dissimilar is also stoopid.

It's like old people smell (not always true), frogs aren't smart enough for algebra (not always true) and women sports are incredibly boring to watch (always true, but still, offensive).

[GabonX]

Say what you will about the don't ask don't tell debate, but the comparison between the civil rights movement regarding African Americans and the debate regarding homosexuals today is invalid.

One thing regards racial characteristics and the other a behavior. Unless you would assert that race is defined by behavior the comparison does not stand.

They are quite connected in that the same bigots are arguing against them.

Not true.

If you doubt this, look at the demographic support of Proposition 8 in California. The stereotypical image of the white redneck doesn't really hold up.

Race can define character and many racists are more offended by action than skin colour. Your claim only takes a small part of the debate into consideration and your narrow-mindedness is quite clearly desplayed. Perhaps this can be attributed to some sort of trait you posess? Some kind of thinking that whatever you say is the be-all and end-all of any discussion? You can learn more from listening than from talking, you know.

I think I said race can define characteristics. Perhaps you mean to say race can define behavior? Your opening a whole other can of worms with that one if you are...

What I said isn't a claim, it's a fact. One thing is a behavior, the other is a race. The two things are incomparable. Also, if a person is offended by a behavior as opposed to a race it isn't racism.

You can learn more from listening than from talking, you know.

Quoted for truth. I hope you take this to heart, because right now nobody here has any respect for you, Mr.Nuclear bombs can't end the world

[BigBallinStalin]

Why not let cripples in the military too? Paraplegics? They deserve the right to give their lives on the front lines...

Hah.

Is it so hard to accept that not everybody is equally suited to serve? Where do we stop inclusion in favor of the morale/attitude/capabilities of our troops? If you think that everyone in the military can just get along happily no matter what then you are shitting rainbows.[/quote]
You know, I've heard a similar argument like this, except back in the day it was about African-Americans.