OBAMA

[Napoleon Ier]

The reason I will not vote for Obama is because I think he has an incorrect view on the war on terror. He believes that our efforts in Iraq are actually encouraging terrorism. He wants to pull us out of Iraq just when we are really starting to deal some serious blows against Al-Quaeda.

McCain didn't even know the difference between sjiites and soennites (or however you spell them) when he was in Iraq a few months ago.

Anyway, I'd like to know about these "serious blows" against Al-Quaeda as I haven't read anything about it.

1/Making a slip of the tongue and 'not knowing' are two very different things. Given McCain's heavy involvement in Iraqi affairs and the number of meetings and briefings he's attended on the matter, I find such accusations less believable than Xtra's conspiracies.

2/Errr...Al-Quaeda is being thrashed in Iraq, they have literally no fighters left as practically everysingle Sunni insurgent is now fighting with or at least doing nothing about the US presence in Iraq. They've killed 3.500 Al-Quaeda fighters since 9/11 qnd wiped out pretty much their entire hierarchy, apart from Osama himself.

[Snorri1234]

2/Errr...Al-Quaeda is being thrashed in Iraq, they have literally no fighters left as practically everysingle Sunni insurgent is now fighting with or at least doing nothing about the US presence in Iraq. They've killed 3.500 Al-Quaeda fighters since 9/11 qnd wiped out pretty much their entire hierarchy, apart from Osama himself.

1. There is not a single good estimate of how many al-quaeda members there are in Iraq. Bush claimed several times there were almost none left but still they keep fighting.

2. They are also recruiting still, and the climate is very good for it.

3. Hierarchy can easily be replaced. Every leader has 10 guys behind him waiting for their shot at it.

I'm not saying there are not blows being dealt. But I think you guys are way too optimistic. You should take official figures with a grain of salt and especially in a war and regarding the number of terrorists. I mean, it's not like they can do a population-census asking people if they're terrorists.



Also, McCain made that mistake two times.

[Juan_Bottom]

Hey Napoleon! Did you here the latest news about AL-Quaeda in IRAQ? Well, appearantly they are being funded by the U.S.! Iran, and Russia are both sueing the U.S. for sponsoring Al-QUAEDA, and encouraging them to attack IRAN, and RUSSIA.......

How are we defeating Al-Quaeda again?

[DangerBoy]

I think it's a mistake to argue or discuss things with Snorri. He's just wanting to argue and I think a lot of people have just about had enough of his antics. He was given specific points by Napoleon and just went right on to say that we should look at official good news with a grain of salt. I think that speaks volumes for how he views the world.

You seriously need to start reading more articles and getting some facts, Snorri. We all have tendencies to quote stats & facts which support what we want to believe but you take it to a ridiculous level.

[Napoleon Ier]

2/Errr...Al-Quaeda is being thrashed in Iraq, they have literally no fighters left as practically everysingle Sunni insurgent is now fighting with or at least doing nothing about the US presence in Iraq. They've killed 3.500 Al-Quaeda fighters since 9/11 qnd wiped out pretty much their entire hierarchy, apart from Osama himself.

1. There is not a single good estimate of how many al-quaeda members there are in Iraq. Bush claimed several times there were almost none left but still they keep fighting.

2. They are also recruiting still, and the climate is very good for it.

3. Hierarchy can easily be replaced. Every leader has 10 guys behind him waiting for their shot at it.

I'm not saying there are not blows being dealt. But I think you guys are way too optimistic. You should take official figures with a grain of salt and especially in a war and regarding the number of terrorists. I mean, it's not like they can do a population-census asking people if they're terrorists.



Also, McCain made that mistake two times.

Yeah, but whilst he made it as a slip of the tongue, you're now making it in genuine ignorance. Al-Qaeda is a Sunni insurgent group...(y'know, the guys who are defecting). The "climate" is very poor: Sunni warlords have had enough of them, and are accusing them of "treason and hypocrisy" (I quote a Qaeda official).

What I do recommend you read though is the 40-page document they captured from a high-ranking Qaeda official which effectively states that Al-Qaeda is no longer able to function in Iraq.

[Juan_Bottom]

2/Errr...Al-Quaeda is being thrashed in Iraq, they have literally no fighters left as practically everysingle Sunni insurgent is now fighting with or at least doing nothing about the US presence in Iraq. They've killed 3.500 Al-Quaeda fighters since 9/11 qnd wiped out pretty much their entire hierarchy, apart from Osama himself.

1. There is not a single good estimate of how many al-quaeda members there are in Iraq. Bush claimed several times there were almost none left but still they keep fighting.

2. They are also recruiting still, and the climate is very good for it.

3. Hierarchy can easily be replaced. Every leader has 10 guys behind him waiting for their shot at it.

I'm not saying there are not blows being dealt. But I think you guys are way too optimistic. You should take official figures with a grain of salt and especially in a war and regarding the number of terrorists. I mean, it's not like they can do a population-census asking people if they're terrorists.



Also, McCain made that mistake two times.

Yeah, but whilst he made it as a slip of the tongue, you're now making it in genuine ignorance. Al-Qaeda is a Sunni insurgent group...(y'know, the guys who are defecting). The "climate" is very poor: Sunni warlords have had enough of them, and are accusing them of "treason and hypocrisy" (I quote a Qaeda official).

What I do recommend you read though is the 40-page document they captured from a high-ranking Qaeda official which effectively states that Al-Qaeda is no longer able to function in Iraq.

Al-Qaeda is America. And America is functioning just fine.

[Frigidus]

2/Errr...Al-Quaeda is being thrashed in Iraq, they have literally no fighters left as practically everysingle Sunni insurgent is now fighting with or at least doing nothing about the US presence in Iraq. They've killed 3.500 Al-Quaeda fighters since 9/11 qnd wiped out pretty much their entire hierarchy, apart from Osama himself.

1. There is not a single good estimate of how many al-quaeda members there are in Iraq. Bush claimed several times there were almost none left but still they keep fighting.

2. They are also recruiting still, and the climate is very good for it.

3. Hierarchy can easily be replaced. Every leader has 10 guys behind him waiting for their shot at it.

I'm not saying there are not blows being dealt. But I think you guys are way too optimistic. You should take official figures with a grain of salt and especially in a war and regarding the number of terrorists. I mean, it's not like they can do a population-census asking people if they're terrorists.



Also, McCain made that mistake two times.

Yeah, but whilst he made it as a slip of the tongue, you're now making it in genuine ignorance. Al-Qaeda is a Sunni insurgent group...(y'know, the guys who are defecting). The "climate" is very poor: Sunni warlords have had enough of them, and are accusing them of "treason and hypocrisy" (I quote a Qaeda official).

What I do recommend you read though is the 40-page document they captured from a high-ranking Qaeda official which effectively states that Al-Qaeda is no longer able to function in Iraq.

Al-Qaeda is America. And America is functioning just fine.

Our economy is sprinting towards a cliff. That hardly seems fine to me.

[Juan_Bottom]

My bad, I ment we are running the show in Iraq.

Besides, you shouldn't worry so. I'm sure that builderburg is working on the solution right now!

[Snorri1234]

I think it's a mistake to argue or discuss things with Snorri. He's just wanting to argue and I think a lot of people have just about had enough of his antics. He was given specific points by Napoleon and just went right on to say that we should look at any good news with a grain of salt. I think that speaks volumes for how he views the world.

3,500 al-queada fighters dead doesn't tell you a single goddamn thing. There have been almost 90,000 civilian casualties. 4091 US casualties, many wounded. And I'm not even talking about the numbers claimed by the US government compared to the ones claimed by independent news-sources like the UN or even the New York times. Did you know the rate of american combat casualties has nearly doubled in the first seven weeks of the troop surge? Not to mention the fact the most deadliest attack in the entire war happened a few months after the surge? Abdul Sattar Abu Risha, the leader of a group of sunni-tribes who opposed Al-Quada was killed in september 2007.

I mean, we can cite meaningless statistics all day, but it doesn't tell us much. How many Al-Quada fighters are there? How many recruiting centers? How much support do they have with the populace or other countries? How many leaders are there actually?

If you don't know the answer to these questions, you know just as much as the US government and me.


Honestly, al-Qaeda is not a real organisation as we think of them normally. Thinking of Osama Bin Laden as their leader is a little silly. No doubt he has good standing with other members, but he is not their king. They're not structured like the terrorist-groups we see in movies, they're structured like militant islamic scholars are generally structured, i.e. not very much.

Basically, the war is far from won and it's doubtfull if it's possible at all. You're fighting terrorists and fighting terrorists is the single most difficult thing a military force can try. This is not Vietnam which could've been won if support was good, this is fighting in the dark with no clue.

You seriously need to start reading more articles and getting some facts, Snorri. We all have tendencies to quote stats & facts which support what we want to believe but you take it to a ridiculous level.

Oh yeah, I need to read more articles....
Maybe you just need to respond to my posts instead of claiming I'm in it to argue. I mean, you carefully dodged what I had to say about your retard-claims about Obama, but I noticed and I'm calling you out. Go fucking respond you dickwad! Still think that Obama is going to raise taxes for teh rich?

[Juan_Bottom]

Honestly, I give this one to SNORRI1234.

[Snorri1234]

Yeah, but whilst he made it as a slip of the tongue, you're now making it in genuine ignorance.

Well ofcourse. It's not that I think he's that incompetent, but I'm just giving a reaction to Dangerboy's claim of Obama being so stupid.

I mean, the problem with both sides is that they blow mistakes out of proportion to make it sound like the politicians are incompotent. The vitriol is a little heavier on the republican-side, mostly because of the religious fundies who can't stop digging for it, but both sides are to blame. Just because Obama made the mistake of thinking his granduncle helped liberate Auswitzch while it was another camp, doesn't mean he's suddenly incompent as both candidates make mistakes. (they're human.)

What I do recommend you read though is the 40-page document they captured from a high-ranking Qaeda official which effectively states that Al-Qaeda is no longer able to function in Iraq.

Any link?

[DangerBoy]

Napoleon, I think the best thing to do is just ignore his rants. Responding just gives him what he wants and it's almost like giving a junkie more drugs.

[Juan_Bottom]

Hey! I want to read the 40pg doc too! You might be able to change peoples minds you know....

[bradleybadly]

Honestly, I give this one to SNORRI1234.

Snorri wins over the conspiracy theorist wing of Conquer Club!
What an endorsement

[Juan_Bottom]

Honestly, I give this one to SNORRI1234.

Snorri wins over the conspiracy theorist wing of Conquer Club!
What an endorsement

Hahaha, *middle finger key*

I subscribe to like five conspiracies and that makes me a conspiracy nut?

SNORRI is right, because you don't know what you are(specifically) talking about. At this point in Iraq, so many people have fled the urban areas, you could almost say that the only ones left are the terrorists. Or at least people with ties to terrorists. Hey! Wait! That sounds like something that an American General may have said? And why would anyone trust government figures about how well they are defeating Al-Qaeda? They have admitted to already lying about those figures. Hell, they lied to get us over there. And as I already brought up, the U.S. is being sued for FUNDING Al-Qaeda of Iraq.
And as far as the military-industreal complex goes, what make you think that they want to win the war? Once that happens the army doesn't neeed to buy any more tanks, or shells, or sandbags, or whatever. Maybe that explains why the U.S. has LOST half a million rifles in Iraq? To arm the insurgants? What would be the point of funding Al-Qaeda if they are seriously trying to wipe them out?

This is Vietnam all over again. The goal here isn't a full victory. It's to cheat the taxpayer for a profit, and forward bases in the middle east.

[Frigidus]

I subscribe to like five conspiracies and that makes me a conspiracy nut?

Best quote ever?

[Juan_Bottom]

I subscribe to like five conspiracies and that makes me a conspiracy nut?

Best quote ever?

*middle finger key*

[Frigidus]

I subscribe to like five conspiracies and that makes me a conspiracy nut?

Best quote ever?

*middle finger key*

Hey, at least I didn't put it in my sig.

[Snorri1234]

I got this chain-email from my [insert family member here] who is a staunch [insert political party here] and totally alwasy checks facts.
pass it on:

WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?

There are many things people do not know about BARACK OBAMA. It is every American's duty to read this message and pass it along to all of their friends and loved ones.

Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower.

Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep.

A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.

Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING.

Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG.

Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It's upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.

There's only one artist on Barack Obama's iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY.

Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American.

Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW.

Barack Obama's new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.

Barack Obama's skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL.

Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT.

Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME.

[jonesthecurl]

Napoleon, I think the best thing to do is just ignore his rants. Responding just gives him what he wants and it's almost like giving a junkie more drugs.

I don't usually use the smilies, but telling nappy that someone's "ranting" -

[muy_thaiguy]

I got this chain-email from my [insert family member here] who is a staunch [insert political party here] and totally alwasy checks facts.
pass it on:

WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?

There are many things people do not know about BARACK OBAMA. It is every American's duty to read this message and pass it along to all of their friends and loved ones.

Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower.

Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep.

A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.

Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING.

Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG.

Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It's upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.

There's only one artist on Barack Obama's iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY.

Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American.

Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW.

Barack Obama's new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.

Barack Obama's skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL.

Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT.

Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME.

Not sure whether I should laugh or cry at the ludicrousness of that.

[Snorri1234]

I got this chain-email from my [insert family member here] who is a staunch [insert political party here] and totally alwasy checks facts.
pass it on:

WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?

There are many things people do not know about BARACK OBAMA. It is every American's duty to read this message and pass it along to all of their friends and loved ones.

Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower.

Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep.

A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.

Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING.

Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG.

Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It's upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.

There's only one artist on Barack Obama's iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY.

Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American.

Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW.

Barack Obama's new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.

Barack Obama's skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL.

Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT.

Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME.

Not sure whether I should laugh or cry at the ludicrousness of that.

You should laugh because it's totally brilliant.

[InkL0sed]

That's awesome. Finally the truth about Obama is apparent.

[Nobunaga]

... I was surprised to hear he's a chain smoker.

... (nothing wrong with that, just surprised me)

...

[InkL0sed]

... I was surprised to hear he's a chain smoker.

... (nothing wrong with that, just surprised me)

...

Where did you hear that?