Occupy Wall Street: Support or Oppose? (OWS vs. Nativity)

[BigBallinStalin]

I SMELL SOCIALISM!!


BE GONE!!!

[BigBallinStalin]

http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP_Across_Generations.pdf

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ ... alysis.pdf

http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/ ... Report.pdf

Bear in mind im a google researcher. Sorry if these aren't reputable, but after all, this is an internet argument, srs bznz.

[jay_a2j]

Hard to come to an agreement with people who want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism.

QFT

Just so you know, not everyone who wants to change the structural flaws of capitalism wants to revert to socialism -

Just so you know, capitalism is not the problem. Things like big government, greed and liberalism are.

[Lootifer]

Hard to come to an agreement with people who want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism.

QFT

Just so you know, not everyone who wants to change the structural flaws of capitalism wants to revert to socialism -

Just so you know, capitalism is not the problem. Things like big government, greed and liberalism are.

Tell me good sir, how exactly would capitalism work without greed?!

[natty dread]

Jay, why do you hate liberty so much?

[CreepersWiener]

Jay, why do you hate liberty so much?

Please explain how Jay hates Liberty?

A lot of posts are done in jest, just to rile people up or bait them into a response. If you are serious about your post, you should at least post evidence of how Jay hates Liberty.

Jay is for smaller, unobtrusive government...how is that "hating" Liberty? I would think that you would be in the same camp? Do you really think that HUGE government is the answer to all your problems in your life, or do you think that the government should get the heck out of your privacy, your right to bear arms, your freedom of speech and to peacefully assemble?

What are your core beliefs? Why don't you state those for us so we can judge...since you are judging? Judge not, lest you be judged...I think that particular teaching is at play here.

Do you love Liberty? Tell us how you do? Tell us what beliefs you embrace that are pro-liberty as opposed to Jay's supposed anti-liberty beliefs.

I call your bluff.

I say Jay loves Liberty more than you.

Prove me wrong.

[Phatscotty]

Which is more Greedy? Wanted your earned income that was taken from you back, or wanting to take someone else's money that you did not earn for yourself? It's a no brainer

Just like lots of other things, some people have it ass backwards

[Phatscotty]

Hard to come to an agreement with people who want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism.

QFT

Just so you know, not everyone who wants to change the structural flaws of capitalism wants to revert to socialism -

Except the vast majority of the current structural flaws of capitalism are directly due to an ever-expanding government.

I don't think we've actually observed the structural flaws of capitalism outside of specific case studies. The flaws you speak of have nothing to do with the change in size of the government; but everything to do with the government making poor decisions.

Along with your free market, a smart government could also have prevented these "flaws" or mistakes.

Give it back when u r dun.

[radiojake]

Hard to come to an agreement with people who want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism.

QFT

Just so you know, not everyone who wants to change the structural flaws of capitalism wants to revert to socialism -

Except the vast majority of the current structural flaws of capitalism are directly due to an ever-expanding government.

No - The biggest flaw with capitalism is the cultural paradigm of consumerism and the idea of perpetual growth - -

In the meantime, can you please find any quotes of mine that have advocated 'bigger government' - I have the same amount of issues with the state as I do with capitalism -

Pigeonhole me as you wish - that way you can avoid an argument by resorting to putting me in the 'socialist' bin - I am not a socialist and I do not advocate it. I make fun of the socialists at Uni just as much as the next guy ---

Please tell me how the continual pursuit of consumerism, inbuilt obsoletism and the continual draining of resources is something that can continue? That is my problem with capitalism (which, would continue happen with socialism [to a large extent] - So why would I want to change to another flawed system?)

[Lootifer]

Cool a book by a rational egoist. Thanks

[Phatscotty]

"The lesson of all the ages is that a wrong, done to one man, is a wrong done to all men. No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without finding the other end fastened about his own neck." Frederick Douglass

[radiojake]

"The lesson of all the ages is that a wrong, done to one man, is a wrong done to all men. No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without finding the other end fastened about his own neck." Frederick Douglass

That is very insightful, Scotty - So insightful that I agree with the sentiments. It's amusing, however, that I can take it one way, and I am sure you will take it another....

[BigBallinStalin]

Welcome back, radiojake. May the battle for free markets v. sustainability/consumerism begin.

[radiojake]

Welcome back, radiojake. May the battle for free markets v. sustainability/consumerism begin.

Thank you-

I have a renewed vigor in debating this topic - -

Our culture will shop itself to its knees -

[Lootifer]

Welcome back, radiojake. May the battle for free markets v. sustainability/consumerism begin.

Hey that remind me, you never did get around to replying to that post i made a while back... sec

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=153828&p=3412790#p3411334

[BigBallinStalin]

Welcome back, radiojake. May the battle for free markets v. sustainability/consumerism begin.

Thank you-

I have a renewed vigor in debating this topic - -

Our culture will shop itself to its knees -

I guess the demand for Hoverounds and wheelchairs will soar.

[Lootifer]

Welcome back, radiojake. May the battle for free markets v. sustainability/consumerism begin.

Thank you-

I have a renewed vigor in debating this topic - -

Our culture will shop itself to its knees -

You know what i discovered today and I find somewhat ironic: No kindle version of "No Logo". (been meaning to read it for the last decade but my inbuilt apathy/laziness has meant i "never got around to it").

[jay_a2j]

Hard to come to an agreement with people who want to destroy capitalism and replace it with socialism.

QFT

Just so you know, not everyone who wants to change the structural flaws of capitalism wants to revert to socialism -

Just so you know, capitalism is not the problem. Things like big government, greed and liberalism are.

Tell me good sir, how exactly would capitalism work without greed?!

Supply and demand...... competition drives prices lower. Why do you think Wal-Mart is the #1 retail store in the country? (I can't stand them but that is a totally different discussion) You don't HAVE to be greedy to enjoy the fruits of capitalism. On a side note: can someone please explain to me why a can of coffee used to be under $5 (just a few short years ago) and now it's over $9????????? Is there a sudden shortage in coffee beans I'm unaware of? Or is the the beginning of hyper-inflation brought on my massive government bailouts? I digress. Capitalism made this country what it is. Socialism is destroying it.
Companies can indeed be greedy, an unfortunate consequence of a free market.

[BigBallinStalin]

On a side note: can someone please explain to me why a can of coffee used to be under $5 (just a few short years ago) and now it's over $9????????? Is there a sudden shortage in coffee beans I'm unaware of? Or is the the beginning of hyper-inflation brought on my massive government bailouts? I digress. Capitalism made this country what it is. Socialism is destroying it.

It's mostly from a temporarily decreased supply of coffee beans, which was probably from the recent massive droughts.

Inflation means "a general rise in prices," so if 50% of all coffee crops are destroyed, the price would rise, and we could label that as "inflation" (if the only good in the world was coffee). Inflation can be caused by printing more money too--I mean, "Quantitative Easing."

Companies can indeed be greedy, an unfortunate consequence of a free market human nature because free markets are composed of individuals, and do not exist independently as a person with human qualities.

[Lootifer]

Er greed is the fundamental incentive base for the Free Market.

You can call it a different name to make it taste better for all I care, but if people don't want more (money/power/whatever) then there's no reason to compete and the model topples over...

[jay_a2j]

Er greed is the fundamental incentive base for the Free Market.

You can call it a different name to make it taste better for all I care, but if people don't want more (money/power/whatever) then there's no reason to compete and the model topples over...

If you are selling cups of lemonade for $1 and then I move onto your street and stat selling it for .50 / cup guess who has to lower his prices or go out of business?

[Lootifer]

*....must not condescend....*

*....arrrrghhhhh....*

*....deep breath....*

Ok, my question is then: Why would you move in and start selling lemonade?

[Symmetry]

Er greed is the fundamental incentive base for the Free Market.

You can call it a different name to make it taste better for all I care, but if people don't want more (money/power/whatever) then there's no reason to compete and the model topples over...

If you are selling cups of lemonade for $1 and then I move onto your street and stat selling it for .50 / cup guess who has to lower his prices or go out of business?

Or then there's the Calvin and Hobbes summary of what OWS are pissed off about:

[jay_a2j]

*....must not condescend....*

*....arrrrghhhhh....*

*....deep breath....*

Ok, my question is then: Why would you move in and start selling lemonade?

Because I just got laid off, my car is about to be repossessed, my wife needs a kidney transplant, my house is going into foreclosure and my dog has fleas. So..... I need the money.

[Lootifer]

*....must not condescend....*

*....arrrrghhhhh....*

*....deep breath....*

Ok, my question is then: Why would you move in and start selling lemonade?

Because I just got laid off, my car is about to be repossessed, my wife needs a kidney transplant, my house is going into foreclosure and my dog has fleas. So..... I need the money.