Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

[Phatscotty]

Is that the same police report that includes...

Officer Timothy Smith writes that Zimmerman is bleeding from the nose and back of the head.

Also, you are taking Zimmerman's word for what happened? or aren't you?

And I've been reading your source. Is this the statement in your source that you think backs up your claim?

According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him.

I see why you are calling me a troll, because I don't see anything in your source that backs you up. Guess that makes you kind of a.....

[Symmetry]

Is that the same police report that includes...

Officer Timothy Smith writes that Zimmerman is bleeding from the nose and back of the head.

Also, you are taking Zimmerman's word for what happened? or aren't you?

No, I am not, but when all parties agree on the fact that he continued to pursue Martin, I find it baffling that you think that him saying ok means he stopped pursuing the kid. The police say he continued pursuing, Zimmerman says he did, the call Trayvon Martin made to his girlfriend says he did, the Martin family lawyers say he did. You say he did not.

[Phatscotty]

Is that the same police report that includes...

Officer Timothy Smith writes that Zimmerman is bleeding from the nose and back of the head.

Also, you are taking Zimmerman's word for what happened? or aren't you?

No, I am not, but when all parties agree on the fact that he continued to pursue Martin, I find it baffling that you think that him saying ok means he stopped pursuing the kid. The police say he continued pursuing, Zimmerman says he did, the call Trayvon Martin made to his girlfriend says he did, the Martin family lawyers say he did. You say he did not.

Can you please pick out the part that verifies that? I have read your source and I don't see it.

And you are putting words in my mouth. He said he complied, and it sounded like he did. I don't know what happened any more than the Martin's family lawyer does. We are all going on what we've heard.

As for the facts, I'm sticking with the 911 tape. Everything that happens between the end of that 911 call and the first 911 call when people heard someone crying for help is speculation, including whether or not Zimmerman continued to follow. If you have evidence contrary to that, please provide it and I will acknowledge it.

[natty dread]

If you have evidence contrary to that, please provide it and I will acknowledge it. ignore it and change the subject to whether or not Martin smoked weed.

[Symmetry]

Is that the same police report that includes...

Officer Timothy Smith writes that Zimmerman is bleeding from the nose and back of the head.

Also, you are taking Zimmerman's word for what happened? or aren't you?

No, I am not, but when all parties agree on the fact that he continued to pursue Martin, I find it baffling that you think that him saying ok means he stopped pursuing the kid. The police say he continued pursuing, Zimmerman says he did, the call Trayvon Martin made to his girlfriend says he did, the Martin family lawyers say he did. You say he did not.

Can you please pick out the part that verifies that? I have read your source and I don't see it.

And you are putting words in my mouth. He said he complied, and it sounded like he did. I don't know what happened any more than the Martin's family lawyer does. We are all going on what we've heard.

As for the facts, I'm sticking with the 911 tape. Everything that happens between the end of that 911 call and the first 911 call when people heard someone crying for help is speculation, including whether or not Zimmerman continued to follow. If you have evidence contrary to that, please provide it and I will acknowledge it.

It's in the article. Look for the bit where it refers to police verifying that Zimmerman admitted he didn't stop the pursuit. Dude, you're being pretty trolly on this. "Dodge king" isn't a compliment, you know.

[Phatscotty]

So, you can't copy n paste it for me? Or was the the first snippet I asked you about 4 responses ago, that you ignored, and then started calling me a troll....

George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, calls 911 to report "a suspicious person" in the gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman says he is following Martin after the teen had started to run, after which the dispatcher tells him, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman pursues Martin anyway, before losing sight of him.

[Phatscotty]

The media is using you. This video has ALL the answers.

Symm, you'd be interested in Spike Lee 10m30s Saul Alinksy around 22

Looks like other people are picking up on the Laughner/Fluke/Hoody strategy. Glad he could finally catch up!

[oVo]

More pieces of the story

No. It isn't.

Morgan was VERY tough on the brother of George Zimmerman
and challenged him repeatedly.

Moot point dude, the shooter's brother wasn't there and doesn't know how it "went down."

And look at how the Toure guy rips Morgan just for allowing another side of the story to be told.

"Another side of the story" as told by someone who doesn't know what happened because he wasn't there is egged on by an interviewer who has this guy on TV to boost his network ratings?

"A major moment in American History?"

Where history repeats itself as the press --who were initially slow to respond but make up for it by reporting "unverified facts" and speculation-- feed a lynch mob useless information.

It is 200 years of American History that make people angry about this tragic event. The circumstances surrounding this teenager's death motivates people to speak out and demand a full investigation into the events of that night. Maybe... some truth will be revealed
and justice can be served.

Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, not a night watchman or security guard. Neighborhood Watch volunteers have limited authority, do not typically carry guns and usually report suspicious activities they observe to the Police for them to handle. So his actions are suspect and I doubt a Police response would have included the use of "deadly force" to resolve this situation.

[patches70]

The circumstances surrounding this teenager's death motivates people to speak out and demand a full investigation into the events of that night. Maybe... some truth will be revealed
and justice can be served.

An investigation is going on. Not just state and local authorities either, but also the Justice Department of the Federal government.

If, in the course of the investigation, it is found that there is sufficient evidence of a legal defense of self defense by Zimmerman and these same authorities decline to press charges, would that not be justice served?

If, those authorities decide to proceed with an arrest and trial of the shooter on manslaughter charges, would that not be justice served?

If, in the event of that trial, Zimmerman is found not guilty by reason of self defense by a jury of his peers, would not justice be served?

If, in the event of that trial, Zimmerman is found guilty and receives the maximum sentence of 15 years with the possibility of parole, would not justice be served?

In your opinion, should Zimmerman be let go or charged with 1st degree murder or charged with 2nd degree murder or charged with manslaughter?

[gradybridges]

The media is using you. This video has ALL the answers.

Symm, you'd be interested in Spike Lee 10m30s Saul Alinksy around 22

Looks like other people are picking up on the Laughner/Fluke/Hoody strategy. Glad he could finally catch up!

When you post Glenn Beck you've lost the argument.

[thegreekdog]

I'm so excited. More people are joining the extremes in this thread!

[Iron Butterfly]

Anyone remember the Duke Lacross Team? Granted no one was killed but the case was tried in the media. Rich white kids accused of rape. The priveleged white kids had to be guilty because after all, why would a black stripper lie about being raped knowing she would be called a liar. Not only was she a liar but the white prosecuter withheld crucial evidence to clear the kids to appease the black community to insure his re-election.

There is a certian irony in Duke Lacross, the Martin case and anytime white on black crime is reported/covered. In the Jim Crow era there was no justice if a black man was accused they were many times lynched until proven guilty and it was not uncommon for whites to get aquitted if it was a crime against blacks, if it ever got prosecuted at all.

So what do we have now?

There seems to be two different issues argued. The first is what happened? We know what happened up to a point, after that it is blind speculation depending on the media source.

Which leads to the second issue, which is HUGE. How the media have distorted what has happened to fit their agenda. I have never known a hispanic person to call themselves half white. The term is laugable. Look at any federal form that needs race stats and you will never see "Half White" or Half Hispanic or Half Black. The white hispanic term was coined by the NY Times to fit their progressive agenda.

ABC news seems to have covered up the fact that Zimmerman indeed did have a head wound. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnic ... s-head-bru

NBC edited the 911 call and presented it as factual making Zimmerman.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/t ... all-306359

So while we still have a dead child regardless of the information, the problem is trying to get accurate information. People base their arguments on the information that is filtered to them trough the media.

[Symmetry]

So, you can't copy n paste it for me? Or was the the first snippet I asked you about 4 responses ago, that you ignored, and then started calling me a troll....

George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, calls 911 to report "a suspicious person" in the gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman says he is following Martin after the teen had started to run, after which the dispatcher tells him, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman pursues Martin anyway, before losing sight of him.

I've already copy and pasted it for you once. I've given you the link to the post where I copy and pasted it, and provided the source.

Nevertheless, here it is again:

About 7 p.m.: George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, calls 911 to report "a suspicious person" in the gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman says he is following Martin after the teen had started to run, after which the dispatcher tells him, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman pursues Martin anyway, before losing sight of him.
Brother says teen snuck up on Zimmerman Eyewitness: I heard multiple 'pops' Breaking down the police report Is 'stand your ground' irrelevant?

About 7:10 p.m.: Phone records show Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend around the time he spotted Zimmerman while returning from a convenience store to his father's fiancée's home.
At a March 20 news conference, Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump says the girl hears someone ask Martin what he was doing and Martin asking why the person was following him. The girl gets the impression that there is an altercation in which the earpiece falls out of Martin's ear and the connection goes dead, according to Crump.
According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him. After exchanging words, Zimmerman says, he reached for his cell phone, and then Martin punched him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pinned him to the ground and began slamming his head into a sidewalk.

So once again, given that the Zimmerman and Martin side agree that he continued to follow Martin, why are you claiming that he stopped? Moreover, why are you suggesting that I didn't post this already, repeatedly?

This isn't some anti-Zimmerman argument. This is what he told the police he did, confirmed by the police. He kept following Martin.

[Phatscotty]

So, you can't copy n paste it for me? Or was the the first snippet I asked you about 4 responses ago, that you ignored, and then started calling me a troll....

George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, calls 911 to report "a suspicious person" in the gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman says he is following Martin after the teen had started to run, after which the dispatcher tells him, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman pursues Martin anyway, before losing sight of him.

I've already copy and pasted it for you once. I've given you the link to the post where I copy and pasted it, and provided the source.

Nevertheless, here it is again:

About 7 p.m.: George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, calls 911 to report "a suspicious person" in the gated community called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman says he is following Martin after the teen had started to run, after which the dispatcher tells him, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman pursues Martin anyway, before losing sight of him.
Brother says teen snuck up on Zimmerman Eyewitness: I heard multiple 'pops' Breaking down the police report Is 'stand your ground' irrelevant?

About 7:10 p.m.: Phone records show Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend around the time he spotted Zimmerman while returning from a convenience store to his father's fiancée's home.
At a March 20 news conference, Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump says the girl hears someone ask Martin what he was doing and Martin asking why the person was following him. The girl gets the impression that there is an altercation in which the earpiece falls out of Martin's ear and the connection goes dead, according to Crump.
According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him. After exchanging words, Zimmerman says, he reached for his cell phone, and then Martin punched him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pinned him to the ground and began slamming his head into a sidewalk.

So once again, given that the Zimmerman and Martin side agree that he continued to follow Martin, why are you claiming that he stopped? Moreover, why are you suggesting that I didn't post this already, repeatedly?

This isn't some anti-Zimmerman argument. This is what he told the police he did, confirmed by the police. He kept following Martin.

Sorry, what you underlined, what you quoted, does not back up yours and others statement that "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways". What you provide first is a complete falsehood, as anyone who listens to the 911 tape will easily see that statement is not corroborated at all, and the 911 tape suggests to the contrary he did stop following him and provides nothing at all to suggest he continued pursuing. What you provide secondly states that there was a confrontation. I think we all know that happened, but it says nothing as to who pursued who.

[Phatscotty]

The media is using you. This video has ALL the answers.

Symm, you'd be interested in Spike Lee 10m30s Saul Alinksy around 22

Looks like other people are picking up on the Laughner/Fluke/Hoody strategy. Glad he could finally catch up!

When you post Glenn Beck you've lost the argument.

It's the absolute truth about how the media is using people...... When you close your mind to new information and dismiss the information based solely on the messenger, you, my dear friend, have lost the argument or else simply refuse to continue, which can also be a loss.

That post had nothing to do with the argument (which I also win) based purely on the evidence and you and Symmetry's overreaching to make the story up to fit your views. You two did exactly what the media told you to do, because you are being used. You can still have your own thoughts about what happened of course, but you need to know that basing it on "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways" has zero evidence to support that, meaning your opinion would be based on a media lie.

now excuse me, because this video is so frikkin accurate about what the media is doing that I have to watch it again!

[Symmetry]

The media is using you. This video has ALL the answers.

Symm, you'd be interested in Spike Lee 10m30s Saul Alinksy around 22

Looks like other people are picking up on the Laughner/Fluke/Hoody strategy. Glad he could finally catch up!

When you post Glenn Beck you've lost the argument.

It's the absolute truth about how the media is using people...... When you close your mind to new information and dismiss the information based solely on the messenger, you, my dear friend, have lost the argument or else simply refuse to continue, which can also be a loss.

That post had nothing to do with the argument (which I also win) based purely on the evidence and you and Symmetry's overreaching to make the story up to fit your views. You two did exactly what the media told you to do, because you are being used. You can still have your own thoughts about what happened of course, but you need to know that basing it on "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways" has zero evidence to support that.

Apart from the statement made by Zimmerman, to the police, which is by any standard, admissable as evidence. Also Martin's girlfriend's statements, also admissable as evidence.

You got conned, Scotty, again. You'd have thought that after the Planned Parenthood con, or the Shirley Sherrod nonsense, you'd be a little more skeptical about Beck and his ilk. Dude, even within this thread you were shown to have been conned by a conservative website's false photographs.

Your credulity is astonishing, and you keep going back.

[patches70]

Apart from the statement made by Zimmerman, to the police, which is by any standard, admissable as evidence. Also Martin's girlfriend's statements, also admissable as evidence.

You got conned, Scotty, again. You'd have thought that after the Planned Parenthood con, or the Shirley Sherrod nonsense, you'd be a little more skeptical about Beck and his ilk. Dude, even within this thread you were shown to have been conned by a conservative website's false photographs.

Your credulity is astonishing, and you keep going back.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Zimmerman did indeed keep following Martin after the police said "we don't need you to do that" (pay attention that this isn't an order by the police to quit pursuit BTW). Zimmerman confronts Martain and Martin punches Zimmerman in the nose, jumps on top of him and starts beating the would be neighborhood hero. Zimmerman in turn shoots Martin dead.

What crime would you propose charging Zimmerman with?

Murder 1?
Murder 2?
Manslaughter?

Keep in mind that Zimmerman had a lawful right to be walking about on the street (just as Martin did). It is also not a crime to say to someone "what are you doing?" Just as that someone has no lawful obligation to answer the the question. Did Martin have a lawful right to punch Zimmerman?
And once struck, did Zimmerman have a lawful right to defend himself, regardless of the circumstances that led to that point?

Once you start really considering these questions you can see how it's quite possible that Zimmerman can not only make the case for self defense, he can win that argument in court. Just as Martin could have won that very argument had he beaten Zimmerman to death.

[Phatscotty]

The media is using you. This video has ALL the answers.

Symm, you'd be interested in Spike Lee 10m30s Saul Alinksy around 22

Looks like other people are picking up on the Laughner/Fluke/Hoody strategy. Glad he could finally catch up!

When you post Glenn Beck you've lost the argument.

It's the absolute truth about how the media is using people...... When you close your mind to new information and dismiss the information based solely on the messenger, you, my dear friend, have lost the argument or else simply refuse to continue, which can also be a loss.

That post had nothing to do with the argument (which I also win) based purely on the evidence and you and Symmetry's overreaching to make the story up to fit your views. You two did exactly what the media told you to do, because you are being used. You can still have your own thoughts about what happened of course, but you need to know that basing it on "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways" has zero evidence to support that.

Apart from the statement made by Zimmerman, to the police, which is by any standard, admissable as evidence. Also Martin's girlfriend's statements, also admissable as evidence.

You got conned, Scotty, again. You'd have thought that after the Planned Parenthood con, or the Shirley Sherrod nonsense, you'd be a little more skeptical about Beck and his ilk. Dude, even within this thread you were shown to have been conned by a conservative website's false photographs.

Your credulity is astonishing, and you keep going back.

I have your source right here. Tell me how this in any way suggests "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways"

Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him.

It doesn't add up. My credibility isn't on the line. It's your statement that your source does not back up that is on the line, and I'm pretty much done with it.

[natty dread]

My credibility isn't on the line.

I'm sorry... your what?

Oh. Poor baby, you think you still have some credibility... that's just sad.

[gradybridges]

Glenn Beck is a carnival barker. He's a fucking joke. There is a reason people who watch Fox News are less informed than those who don't.

[Phatscotty]

My credibility isn't on the line.

I'm sorry... your what?

Oh. Poor baby, you think you still have some credibility... that's just sad.

I'm pointing out why Symm and Grady are wrong. This isn't about me or Glenn Beck

Symmetry is right here flat out posting incorrect information, and you are all worried about me personally? Wow you guys are really winning this one.

[Symmetry]

The media is using you. This video has ALL the answers.

Symm, you'd be interested in Spike Lee 10m30s Saul Alinksy around 22

Looks like other people are picking up on the Laughner/Fluke/Hoody strategy. Glad he could finally catch up!

When you post Glenn Beck you've lost the argument.

It's the absolute truth about how the media is using people...... When you close your mind to new information and dismiss the information based solely on the messenger, you, my dear friend, have lost the argument or else simply refuse to continue, which can also be a loss.

That post had nothing to do with the argument (which I also win) based purely on the evidence and you and Symmetry's overreaching to make the story up to fit your views. You two did exactly what the media told you to do, because you are being used. You can still have your own thoughts about what happened of course, but you need to know that basing it on "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways" has zero evidence to support that.

Apart from the statement made by Zimmerman, to the police, which is by any standard, admissable as evidence. Also Martin's girlfriend's statements, also admissable as evidence.

You got conned, Scotty, again. You'd have thought that after the Planned Parenthood con, or the Shirley Sherrod nonsense, you'd be a little more skeptical about Beck and his ilk. Dude, even within this thread you were shown to have been conned by a conservative website's false photographs.

Your credulity is astonishing, and you keep going back.

I have your source right here. Tell me how this in any way suggests "Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin anyways"

Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him.

It doesn't add up. My credibility isn't on the line. It's your statement that your source does not back up that is on the line, and I'm pretty much done with it.

And yet, once again, my source puts that statement as later than the Zimmerman call. Indicating that he continued following Martin after the call was finished. Bear in mind, once again, that this is what Zimmerman told the police, and has been confirmed by the police as his statement.

Also, I was referring to your credulity, not your credibility.

[Phatscotty]

Can you post the part about where your sourse places that statement as later than the call? Why do I have to ask 5 times and read your source 3 times? It's not there. Your source seems to do nothing more than confrim Zimmermans story that Trayvon was pursuing Zimmerman.

Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him.

[Iron Butterfly]

Everyone is still arguing over who is right but ignoring the sources of their information and how it has been manipulated.

LOL and I would never use Glenn Beck as a source to back up anyones point.

[Phatscotty]

Everyone is still arguing over who is right but ignoring the sources of their information and how it has been manipulated.

LOL and I would never use Glenn Beck as a source to back up anyones point.

that was a separate post. nothing to do with this point and making a new point about the media handling.