Poll on Marriage (Fed vs State vs. Church)

[Lootifer]

[Phatscotty]

It's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

Guess where the position "I want my benefits" stands on that one....

Am I the only one finding it EXTREMELY ironic that someone who advocates doing away with most government, personal responsibility and keeping the government out of anything but social issues is now quoting JFK?

JFK was more a classical liberal than a modern liberal. I am a classical liberal. I would have voted for JFK, and I am ignoring your categorizing my belief in smaller government to the extreme. Your trouble here is you always think I or other people are coming from the extreme. There are plenty of good and necessary regulations out there, but there far is more red tape and bureaucratic nonsense and over-regulation at the moment. The government is way too big and our debt is over 100% of GDP. It's time to stop for a moment and take a good look at where this is likely to end up. We all know we are losing more freedoms everyday....how much longer can we continue to lose freedom until there isn't any left to stand up for anymore.

Remember, it's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

[Woodruff]

JFK was more a classical liberal than a modern liberal. I am a classical liberal.

You are no such thing. You disgust this classical liberal. I would strongly suspect an individual such as you would disgust pretty much any classical liberal.

Your trouble here is you always think I or other people are coming from the extreme.

You ARE always coming from the extreme!

We all know we are losing more freedoms everyday....how much longer can we continue to lose freedom until there isn't any left to stand up for anymore.

When people like you stop trying to take away our freedoms, we will have started in that direction.

Remember, it's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

It's really too bad that you don't believe in that adage, but rather prefer to use it like a sound bite as if it means anything in that form.

[Phatscotty]

I meant the second part. What does gay marriage have to do with, "I want my benefits?" Are you implying that gays only want to marry for the tax benefits?

what else will a marriage certificate change?

God, you're an ignorant tool.

great answer.

There is no need for you to budge into the middle of my conversations with other people, and you don't have to reply to me at all either, because you are foed for being an ignorant tool.

I cry.

But seriously, I hope the rot you call an ideology metastasizes into something that removes you from the forum. I don't need to converse with you directly to notice that the hatred, lies and fear-mongering that you spew are representative of the intellectual dregs of humanity. Your casual disregard of empathy is not only the likely root of your atrocious politics, but a sign of an unrelenting sociopathy that I wish only existed in movies, and almost makes me wish there was a hell in which you should writhe eternally. So, keep waving your flag, scum, it makes it easier to avoid you.

It's funny how deep the shit I would be in if I said what you said.....to a different person...... The ironic thing is, you have become exactly what you pretend to be fighting against. You sound like a fundamentalist zealot judging and persecuting and a sinner. Leftism is a religion.

This is how you treat people who recognize that marriage is between a man and a woman? Glad it's clear which side is nutz and way out of line.

If you got something to say to me, say it, but don't jump in the middle of people's conversation if you don't have anything to add.

[Phatscotty]

I meant the second part. What does gay marriage have to do with, "I want my benefits?" Are you implying that gays only want to marry for the tax benefits?

what else will a marriage certificate change?

Security. For some people, knowing they have more than just a whim to back up their relationship is important.

Medical choice The ability to make medical decisions automaticlaly for a loved one, without having to draw up a lot of complicated legal documents.. and without having to be sure those documents are available and recognized in all states.

Children.. the ability to make legal decisions for children you are raising, even if not biologically yours.

Morality...I believe you were among those claiming the moral priority of heterosexual marriage. Why should homosexuals be denied that as well.... except that it does not fit YOUR moral definition.

Inheritance.. Note this is NOT a "government benefit". It is, instead, something taken for granted by hetersexual married individuals -- the ability to pass on ownership of a house, small estate gains, money that the individual has EARNED without having to pay taxes and fees that no heterosexual couple has to pay.

OH, YEAH... and those "benefits". You really put your foot in your mouth there, because the truth is that most low income women actually LOSE money by marrying. Higher income women can gain, but that's not anything from the government.

Security - I already conceded that. A document of your special love, and you get to name a star for free and we'll send you a certificate for that too.
Medical - Changing the law is not the only way to deal with this exception, and certainly not the best way.
Children - We will get to young children being raised with 2 moms or 2 dads in the future I'm sure. Gay parents adopting is much more controversial than gay marriage, while gay marriage is a stepping stone to gay adoption, while people will admit that or not.
Morality - It has nothing to do with morals, or a moral definition. The definition is and only can be one man one woman. if it were no different, there would be no need to say "gay marraige". It's different
Inheritance - It's called a will

[Neoteny]

I've said what I have to say. And you clearly have no counter to it other than whining about how rude I am for interrupting your incessant demogoguerry. But since you are apparently interested in my opinions, here's more.

I know you have it carved into the crude stone tablet that you call a mind that a marriage only serves to reinforce your particular, repugnant prejudices. You've made an impressively herculean effort to drown out sensible discussion with a cacophony of quote-mining, slogan abuse, and outright lies, combined with a barrage of non-sequiturs, cheesy YouTube videos, and Neo-conservative agitprop. Yet I'm the one that's "nutz." Christ, how fucking childish can one get?

There's no need to bait me with your trite "librul-religion" schtick, since you've already won that battle. You're getting the full Neo treatment, and I'll let the mods do the sorting. They seem pretty happy to let you float the bigoted flotsam you call arguments around here, so if I get in trouble for simply calling you out on your fabrications and scaremongering, then so be it. No big loss to me. It's all part of your usual persecution complex, so it's really no skin off my back.

So, please Scotty, tell me more. I'm really interested. How many sinners am I persecuting for calling you a liar? Like you call Obama, your own personal Satan? Like you call pimpdave, the guy who turned your own tactics against you, and you were too oblivious to recognize the pattern, like you call PLAYER, and everyone else that dares to disagree with your narrow-minded, tyranny of the rich, the white, and the status quo.

Are you feeling persecuted, Scotty? Is that what you think "persecution" fucking means? Have you no sense of reality? Is your mind so rage-addled at the thought of someone getting over that you have completely abandoned any pretense of ethics or responsibility? Do you know what those words mean?

And you have the gall to complain about how I'm treating you? Because I speak to you like an adult rather than juggle one-liners and post JPEG and YouTube videos? Because I have the audacity to expect reasonable discussion? There's no religion here Scott. Just anger at seeing you trash discourse and aiming your lance of absurdity at the windmills of liberal overlords.

So, that's all I have to add. You're transparent. A walking, talking (god, do you talk) cliche. A bane to rational though, and an embarrassment to conservativism. And you act like a thirteen year-old.

So, foe me, son. It's probably easier on me if you don't respond. But always know this: you are a chancre on the face of humanity. And I'm not flaming to flame. And I'm not saying it because of any particular affiliation you claim. I'm saying it because I think you believe what you say you do. And I fret for the world if it is producing this garbage.

[Neoteny]

Also, yes, I recognize that by going a bit ad hominems by discussing PS's history of posting absolute nonsense, that I'm giving him the opportunity to just complain about how oppressed he is and how Leftists are religions, but, when weighed with actually responding to his tripe, I decided to be the bigger man and take the high road.

[Phatscotty]

Just read what you wrote. Again to the original post where you got involved when you called me a tool, I was asking because I wanted to hear what the person I replied to had to say on the matter, and nothing more. I seek to be proven wrong and test my opinions as much as possible. I want to hear everything the other side has to say. I have tried at least 4 or 5 different arguments on the issue of marriage alone. Not many have returned much actual discussion except for a bunch of bashing and hate-baiting and name calling, and then there was one person who told me I was gonna burn in hell....

The shoe literally is on the other foot

[Neoteny]

Just read what you wrote. Again to the original post where you got involved when you called me a tool, I was asking because I wanted to hear what the person I replied to had to say on the matter, and nothing more. I seek to be proven wrong and test my opinions as much as possible. I want to hear everything the other side has to say. I have tried at least 4 or 5 different arguments on the issue of marriage alone. Not many have returned much actual discussion except for a bunch of bashing and hate-baiting and name calling, and then there was one person who told me I was gonna burn in hell....

Lol

[Woodruff]

I seek to be proven wrong and test my opinions as much as possible. I want to hear everything the other side has to say.

You are a liar. That's all that can be said about your two sentences there...you are a liar. Neither of those two sentences have anything at all with how you view the world, demonstrably in these fora.

[Phatscotty]

An in depth discussion (maybe too much ) on the issue I am watching and wanted to share. It's full of all kinds of pertinent information

[BigBallinStalin]

Just read what you wrote. Again to the original post where you got involved when you called me a tool, I was asking because I wanted to hear what the person I replied to had to say on the matter, and nothing more. I seek to be proven wrong and test my opinions as much as possible. I want to hear everything the other side has to say. I have tried at least 4 or 5 different arguments on the issue of marriage alone. Not many have returned much actual discussion except for a bunch of bashing and hate-baiting and name calling, and then there was one person who told me I was gonna burn in hell....

The shoe literally is on the other foot

At least he knows how to tie his own shoes.

OH!

[Neoteny]

No, but seriously. You're a hateful troll, Scotty. And you are a sagging hurdle to the pursuit of equality and human progress.

[BigBallinStalin]

Yeah, he pretty much is. Would a ban be effective on curbing Phatscotty's trolling?

[Neoteny]

It would be a temporary reprieve from a constant assault of hatred.

[Phatscotty]

Biden throws his weight around...



"Who do you love?" That's all it comes down to. A very, very simple proposition

[Phatscotty]

JFK was more a classical liberal than a modern liberal. I am a classical liberal.

You are no such thing. You disgust this classical liberal. I would strongly suspect an individual such as you would disgust pretty much any classical liberal.

Your trouble here is you always think I or other people are coming from the extreme.

You ARE always coming from the extreme!

We all know we are losing more freedoms everyday....how much longer can we continue to lose freedom until there isn't any left to stand up for anymore.

When people like you stop trying to take away our freedoms, we will have started in that direction.

Remember, it's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

It's really too bad that you don't believe in that adage, but rather prefer to use it like a sound bite as if it means anything in that form.

Woodruff, I told you I did not wish to speak with you, and your obsessionary stalking of me must stop. You do not have a single thing to say that I wish to hear, and you do not have any of my respect. I told you I foed you, yet you continue to harass me on every single post I make. I tried ignoring them, as they are way too intentionally annoying, and your constant and continual personal attacks do not add anything to the discussions at hand. All your posts do is ruins things for me and the community. I already asked you to stop...Here is a reminder

The Community Guidelines

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7785

Welcome to the Conquer Club community. We're not just about kicking each other's rear ends here; we also like to hug and sing and drink around a camp fire. So, we have implemented one very simple rule to keep the community happily drinking its hot cocoa:

Don't be intentionally annoying!

Common sense prevails - if you are intentionally or continually making this community less enjoyable for others, you're going to be removed from it. It's that simple. This applies to any part of the site where interaction takes place; in Forums, Private Messages, Live Chat and Game Chat.

[Woodruff]

Woodruff, I told you I did not wish to speak with you

Then don't speak with me. Duh?

and your obsessionary stalking of me must stop.

Stalking of you? <laughing out loud> Does that mean I'm also stalking Night Strike and BigBallinStalin because I respond to their posts quite often too?

You do not have a single thing to say that I wish to hear, and you do not have any of my respect.

That doesn't affect me in the slightest, to be honest. I'm not really sure why you're bothering to derail your own thread by pointing it out, but whatever. Someone probably made a point you didn't like, and you don't know how else to deal with it (I'm guessing it was me, based on your method of derailment).

I told you I foed you

So what?

yet you continue to harass me on every single post I make.

If you've foed me, then you can't see my posts, Phatscotty. If you definitively cannot see my posts without actual action on your part being taken, how can I possibly "harass you"? If I am "harassing you", I am doing so with your own consent, goofball.

I tried ignoring them, as they are way too intentionally annoying, and your constant and continual personal attacks do not add anything to the discussions at hand.

I know you dislike reality being put in front of you, but that doesn't mean it's not adding to the discussion. It just means you don't like it.

All your posts do is ruins things for me and the community.

I don't believe "the community" has nearly the problem with my posts that they do with yours, Phatscotty. I would strongly suggest to you that if you want to travel down the path you seem to be leading toward, it will turn out far less favorably for you than it will for me.

But hey Phatscotty, you caught a break...tomorrow morning, I head out with my cadets to a Summer Leadership School and we won't return until the 2nd of June. So maybe you can figure out how not to click to force yourself to read my posts by then, so you won't have to consent to my "harassing you" by clicking on them. Or alternatively, you could try to start viewing life through an objective lens instead of the paranoid, bitter and painstakingly fantastical lens you're currently using.

[Phatscotty]

Woodruff, I told you I did not wish to speak with you

Then don't speak with me.

Don't troll every single post I make, and you got a deal. Do you think you are able to stop talking to me? Can you control it?

If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all. If you don't have anything to say about the topic at hand, then don't participate in the topic.

[Woodruff]

Don't troll every single post I make, and you got a deal. Do you think you are able to stop talking to me? Can you control it?

I don't troll you, and I will respond to whatever posts I feel like responding to. You don't have to like it, and you CLAIM you're not reading it anyway since I'm foed. So stop "CONSENTING TO ME TROLLING YOU" by reading my posts and don't click on them when they're foed out. Or stop claiming that I'm foed when I'm not, I guess.

If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all. If you don't have anything to say about the topic at hand, then don't participate in the topic.

I do participate in the topics, you just don't like what I have to say. And if many people are saying things about you that aren't nice, perhaps the problem doesn't like with those "many people"...perhaps you should look at yourself for a change.

[Phatscotty]

If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it at all. If you don't have anything to say about the topic at hand, then don't participate in the topic.

I do participate in the topics, you just don't like what I have to say. And if many people are saying things about you that aren't nice, perhaps the problem doesn't like with those "many people"...perhaps you should look at yourself for a change.

No, you don't talk about the topics, you go on and on and on about personal attacks on me. Here is a perfect example

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=171777#p3752898

I have no interest in anything you have to say. I don't follow you around and trash your posts. I don't even want to talk to you. I want nothing to do with your poisonous language or the poisonous environment it creates.

If you have a problem with me, then ignore me.

Good day

[Phatscotty]

Louis Farrakahn comments on Obama's new position, specifically around 4:30

[PLAYER57832]

It's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

Guess where the position "I want my benefits" stands on that one....

Am I the only one finding it EXTREMELY ironic that someone who advocates doing away with most government, personal responsibility and keeping the government out of anything but social issues is now quoting JFK?

JFK was more a classical liberal than a modern liberal. I am a classical liberal. I would have voted for JFK, and I am ignoring your categorizing my belief in smaller government to the extreme. Your trouble here is you always think I or other people are coming from the extreme.

Interesting, except the problem is that MY positions are much more like JFK's (not on homosexuality.. but it was not an issue then, and I suspect if he were alive today, his ideas might have changed on that). YET.. you accuse me of being "extreme", etc.

But hey, when you start by defining yourself as center.. as opposed to any objective definition, then, sure you can label anyone who is not fully right as "liberal".

There are plenty of good and necessary regulations out there, but there far is more red tape and bureaucratic nonsense and over-regulation at the moment. The government is way too big and our debt is over 100% of GDP. It's time to stop for a moment and take a good look at where this is likely to end up. We all know we are losing more freedoms everyday....how much longer can we continue to lose freedom until there isn't any left to stand up for anymore.

I see, and homosexual unions interfere with that, exactly how?

Remember, it's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

Again, this is supported by denying homosexuals legal recognition of their unions in what way?


And.. that you repeat this is utterly laughable. But most of that lies well outside this thread, so I will leave it lay.

[PLAYER57832]

"Who do you love?" That's all it comes down to. A very, very simple proposition

Yes, so why do you oppose that?

[Phatscotty]

"Who do you love?" That's all it comes down to. A very, very simple proposition

Yes, so why do you oppose that?

for one, because a brother can love his sister. Obviously, there are some serious objections that we all agree is wrong with Biden's statement....or is that not the case?