If Marriage Is a Fundamental Right, Then?

[comic boy]

Every single study that has ever been done aside from those linked to religious groups, EVERY ONE, has shown that there is no difference between the development of a child raised by gay parents and a child raised by hetero parents. .

I like this. "Every single study" eh? Lets rephrase your statement in a slightly more honest form: Every single study by pro-gays has shown there is no difference . . . while studies from anti-gays show different results. Looks a bit different now doesn't it?

I have
I do literally mean every single peer-reviewed study, dating all the way back to the late 60s. This has been used to lend weight to the argument that sexual identity and preference is genetic, and not taught.

does that mean that homosexuals will always be 1-3% of the population?

First of all, that presumes that nobody has ever hidden their homosexuality, out of fear of the consequences.

But aside from that, how is that relevant? If it isn't relevant, why do you care and why do you think we would care? Why do you continue to try to distract every conversation that isn't going the way you want it to?

Wait, what are the consequences of filling out a census form in the privacy of your own home? According to the 2010 US census, and the large majority if gay advocates who accept it, 1-3% of people are homosexual.

I'm not sure if it's relevant yet, which is why I was asked more questions. Do you want it to not be relevant for some reason?

I have not done a lot of research for myself as to whether being gay is taught or genetic. Is that the case, that it's genetic? Can I see some studies please? I am eager to learn, and since I'm helping you with your American History, maybe you can help me out a bit here?

I also ask because there is a lot of confusion here. Some people have mentioned it's 50%, some others in the past have said 25%, but I have listened to and watched and read hundreds of arguments on redefining marriage from both sides, and the 1-3% number is generally accepted on both sides.

' Some people have mentioned its 50% ' Who ?
' Others in the past have said 25% ' Again who ?
I have never read any article or study that suggests that the Gay population is anywhere near these percentages, you are making numbers up , why ?

[AslanTheKing]

a kid deserves a mom and a dad

Do you believe that single parents shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

depending on why they are single parents (did one parent die?)

Why they are single parents is irrelevant, since you believe a kid deserves both a mom and a dad. If one of them dies, then you apparently believe that single parent should no longer be allowed to raise their children, because they wouldn't have both the mom and dad that they deserve.

why they are single parents is relevant for the children, kids naturally deserve both parents,
if one of them dies, single parent is allowed to raise their children, what do you think?
want to take the last parent left to the kid, want to take that away from the kid?
u misunderstood something here

a divorce is not an option

That is a really idiotic statement. Anyone who would suggest that a spouse stay with their abusive partner "just because" borders on the sociopathic.

are u emotionaly hurt?

whats idiotic on this statement, u give me an abusive partnership as example, like extemes , dont you?
here is my answer, when is the partner abusive - what happened?= i need the full story
how long for has he been abusive, what kind of abusiveness? it all depends,
if we are talking about long time abusiveness, maybe alcohol involved,

but i answer it to you, no spouse has to stay with an abusive partner

Do you believe an infertile couple shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

a infertile lesbian couple? NO

Are you going to answer the question I asked, or are you going to coward out of it?

infertile couple should be allowed to raise children,
infertile lesbian gay couple, should not be allowed to raise children,
infertile gay man couple , they should either be not allowed to raise children

did this answers satysfie you, or do u have another question?

i know, there are baaaad parents on this world,they cant cope with them selves, so they cant cope with their kids,
but those kids of those unable parents, love their mum and dad for sure

No. No, that's definitely not "for sure". Most of the time, probably. But definitely not "for sure".

bad luck, they get over it and love comes back

So you're what...fourteen years old or so, I'm guessing?

i can only repeat that too, children with a bad childhood, will suffer all there time, their bad memorys will stay forever
until there comes a time, they have forgiven, forgiven their parents, and get along with their current life
some can do it, some cant
sorry about your past, but for today and your future - dont blame your parents, thats cowardish too
get over it, get your life together and move on in a positive way, its no point running around
with hate in your soul, forget hate and bad energys,
focus on yourself, and only u can do that, everything else is lazy
and start believing,
some believe in god, some believe in themselves
and some dont believe at all

if u fall deep, dont believe somebody will be here to pick u up,
u have to do that yourself

didnt get it ? you dont have too
what i mean is, take responsibility

any more questions?

[Symmetry]

a kid deserves a mom and a dad

Do you believe that single parents shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

depending on why they are single parents (did one parent die?)

Why they are single parents is irrelevant, since you believe a kid deserves both a mom and a dad. If one of them dies, then you apparently believe that single parent should no longer be allowed to raise their children, because they wouldn't have both the mom and dad that they deserve.

why they are single parents is relevant for the children, kids naturally deserve both parents,
if one of them dies, single parent is allowed to raise their children, what do you think?
want to take the last parent left to the kid, want to take that away from the kid?
u misunderstood something here

a divorce is not an option

That is a really idiotic statement. Anyone who would suggest that a spouse stay with their abusive partner "just because" borders on the sociopathic.

whats idiotic on this statement, u give me an abusive partnership as example, like extemes , dont you?
here is my answer, when is the partner abusive - what happened?= i need the full story
how long for has he been abusive, what kind of abusiveness? it all depends,
if we are talking about long time abusiveness, maybe alcohol involved,

but i answer it to you, no spouse has to stay with an abusive partner

Do you believe an infertile couple shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

a infertile lesbian couple? NO

Are you going to answer the question I asked, or are you going to coward out of it?

infertile couple should be allowed to raise children,
infertile lesbian gay couple, should not be allowed to raise children,
infertile gay man couple , they should either be not allowed to raise children

did this answers satysfie you, or do u have another question?

i know, there are baaaad parents on this world,they cant cope with them selves, so they cant cope with their kids,
but those kids of those unable parents, love their mum and dad for sure

No. No, that's definitely not "for sure". Most of the time, probably. But definitely not "for sure".

bad luck, they get over it and love comes back

So you're what...fourteen years old or so, I'm guessing?

i can only repeat that too, children with a bad childhood, will suffer all there time, their bad memorys will stay forever
until there comes a time, they have forgiven, forgiven their parents, and get along with their current life
some can do it, some cant
sorry about your past, but for today and your future - dont blame your parents, thats cowardish too
get over it, get your life together and move on in a positive way, its no point running around
with hate in your soul, forget hate and bad energys,
focus on yourself, and only u can do that, everything is lazy

if u fall deep, dont believe somebody will be here to pick u up,
u have to do that yourself

didnt get it, dont have too
any more questions?

Why won't you let Susan return to Narnia, Aslan?

[AslanTheKing]

a kid deserves a mom and a dad

Do you believe that single parents shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

depending on why they are single parents (did one parent die?)

Why they are single parents is irrelevant, since you believe a kid deserves both a mom and a dad. If one of them dies, then you apparently believe that single parent should no longer be allowed to raise their children, because they wouldn't have both the mom and dad that they deserve.

why they are single parents is relevant for the children, kids naturally deserve both parents,
if one of them dies, single parent is allowed to raise their children, what do you think?
want to take the last parent left to the kid, want to take that away from the kid?
u misunderstood something here

a divorce is not an option

That is a really idiotic statement. Anyone who would suggest that a spouse stay with their abusive partner "just because" borders on the sociopathic.

are u emotionaly hurt?

whats idiotic on this statement, u give me an abusive partnership as example, like extemes , dont you?
here is my answer, when is the partner abusive - what happened?= i need the full story
how long for has he been abusive, what kind of abusiveness? it all depends,
if we are talking about long time abusiveness, maybe alcohol involved,

but i answer it to you, no spouse has to stay with an abusive partner

Do you believe an infertile couple shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

a infertile lesbian couple? NO

Are you going to answer the question I asked, or are you going to coward out of it?

infertile couple should be allowed to raise children,
infertile lesbian gay couple, should not be allowed to raise children,
infertile gay man couple , they should either be not allowed to raise children

did this answers satysfie you, or do u have another question?

i know, there are baaaad parents on this world,they cant cope with them selves, so they cant cope with their kids,
but those kids of those unable parents, love their mum and dad for sure

No. No, that's definitely not "for sure". Most of the time, probably. But definitely not "for sure".

bad luck, they get over it and love comes back

So you're what...fourteen years old or so, I'm guessing?

i can only repeat that too, children with a bad childhood, will suffer all there time, their bad memorys will stay forever
until there comes a time, they have forgiven, forgiven their parents, and get along with their current life
some can do it, some cant
sorry about your past, but for today and your future - dont blame your parents, thats cowardish too
get over it, get your life together and move on in a positive way, its no point running around
with hate in your soul, forget hate and bad energys,
focus on yourself, and only u can do that, everything else is lazy
and start believing,
some believe in god, some believe in themselves
and some dont believe at all

if u fall deep, dont believe somebody will be here to pick u up,
u have to do that yourself

didnt get it ? you dont have too
what i mean is, take responsibility

any more questions?

Why won't you let Susan return to Narnia, Aslan?

[AslanTheKing]

because she did not believe in narnia anymore

[Symmetry]

because she did not believe in narnia anymore

What makes you think that? In The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe, several people are able to enter Narnia without believing in it. One of whom is Susan.

[Phatscotty]

I like this. "Every single study" eh? Lets rephrase your statement in a slightly more honest form: Every single study by pro-gays has shown there is no difference . . . while studies from anti-gays show different results. Looks a bit different now doesn't it?

I have
I do literally mean every single peer-reviewed study, dating all the way back to the late 60s. This has been used to lend weight to the argument that sexual identity and preference is genetic, and not taught.

does that mean that homosexuals will always be 1-3% of the population?

First of all, that presumes that nobody has ever hidden their homosexuality, out of fear of the consequences.

But aside from that, how is that relevant? If it isn't relevant, why do you care and why do you think we would care? Why do you continue to try to distract every conversation that isn't going the way you want it to?

Wait, what are the consequences of filling out a census form in the privacy of your own home? According to the 2010 US census, and the large majority if gay advocates who accept it, 1-3% of people are homosexual.

I'm not sure if it's relevant yet, which is why I was asked more questions. Do you want it to not be relevant for some reason?

I have not done a lot of research for myself as to whether being gay is taught or genetic. Is that the case, that it's genetic? Can I see some studies please? I am eager to learn, and since I'm helping you with your American History, maybe you can help me out a bit here?

I also ask because there is a lot of confusion here. Some people have mentioned it's 50%, some others in the past have said 25%, but I have listened to and watched and read hundreds of arguments on redefining marriage from both sides, and the 1-3% number is generally accepted on both sides.

' Some people have mentioned its 50% ' Who ?
' Others in the past have said 25% ' Again who ?
I have never read any article or study that suggests that the Gay population is anywhere near these percentages, you are making numbers up , why ?

It was a friend of mine who guessed 50%, but 25% belongs to a couple people here. I'm not calling them out because they were just guessing.

I make nothing up. You're just a mean person

[Symmetry]

It was a friend of mine who guessed 50%, but 25% belongs to a couple people here. I'm not calling them out because they were just guessing.

I make nothing up. You're just a mean person

You made up that "some people have mentioned" 50%. Turns out it was one person now.

Good fact checking CB.

[Lootifer]

1-3% sounds a little low, as Woody says there's likely a bunch of people who are on the fence or gay but have well and truely repressed it (to the point of maybe even not even knowing they are potentially gay).

This is based on talking to a very, er, open gay couple who have regular same-sex threesomes. They said they almost exclusively pick up "straight" (and usually married) guys. I have heard elseware (rumor etc) that this is about right (i.e. theres a lot of repressed potential homosexuals).

[saxitoxin]

This is based on talking to a very, er, open gay couple who have regular same-sex threesomes. They said they almost exclusively pick up "straight" (and usually married) guys. I have heard elseware (rumor etc) that this is about right (i.e. theres a lot of repressed potential homosexuals).

Oh you "heard" about that from "a friend," huh?

[Lootifer]

This is based on talking to a very, er, open gay couple who have regular same-sex threesomes. They said they almost exclusively pick up "straight" (and usually married) guys. I have heard elseware (rumor etc) that this is about right (i.e. theres a lot of repressed potential homosexuals).

Oh you "heard" about that from "a friend," huh?

I got very flattered that night; unfortunately for them i either wasnt drunk enough or i'm not in that repressed category

Lets be honest; if thats you're thing, you'd be a mug to turn it down right?

[saxitoxin]

This is based on talking to a very, er, open gay couple who have regular same-sex threesomes. They said they almost exclusively pick up "straight" (and usually married) guys. I have heard elseware (rumor etc) that this is about right (i.e. theres a lot of repressed potential homosexuals).

Oh you "heard" about that from "a friend," huh?

I got very flattered that night; unfortunately for them i either wasnt drunk enough or i'm not in that repressed category

more like performance anxiety, no doubt

[Juan_Bottom]

Every single study that has ever been done aside from those linked to religious groups, EVERY ONE, has shown that there is no difference between the development of a child raised by gay parents and a child raised by hetero parents. .

I like this. "Every single study" eh? Lets rephrase your statement in a slightly more honest form: Every single study by pro-gays has shown there is no difference . . . while studies from anti-gays show different results. Looks a bit different now doesn't it?


Honibaz

I do literally mean every single peer-reviewed study, dating all the way back to the late 60s. This has been used to lend weight to the argument that sexual identity and preference is genetic, and not taught.

You do "literally mean every peer-reviewed study . . ." Now you leave out "aside from those linked to religious groups". Which is it? Every single one or every single one besides those "linked to religious groups"? And how many of these "studies" would you have us believe you've read? No no don't go running for Google to help you out on this one - seriously, you throw out statistics like these and expect anyone to take you seriously? Homosexuality is genetic? Cite me one experiment by name (that has been replicated) that supports this hypothesis. How about the "Gay Brain" experiment that "proved" the hypothalamus of the brain was larger on gay males than straight? How about the "Gay Twins" experiment? Unlike you i've actually given time and effort to studying this subject and am not glibly pulling concocted generalities out of my ass. You have no idea what kind of studies have been done in this area and your generic delivery gives this away like a neon casino sign.


Honibaz

Careful here, because I do know what I'm talking about.

Stephanie Koontz
(author and professor of history in family studies at Evergreen State College)

There's no such thing as a traditional family. Families have taken every shape imaginable throughout history. The most common marriage form in history was one man and many women. Marriage has been constantly changing. The idea of one man and one woman nuclear family.... that's a pretty rare family form in history.

Dr. Nanette Gartrell
(Professor of Psychiatry UC San Fransisco)

Brian Brown is completely inaccurate in making a statement that longitudinal studies of lesbian families don't exist.
I have an enormously well-founded long-term study that has been going on for 18 years. And there are studies in Europe as well. The papers have been published. And all I can say is Brian Brown has not doing his research.
What we know from the studies of children who are older, who were raised by lesbian moms or gay dads, is that the incidents of those children becoming lesbian or gay is no different from the population in general.

The only negative?

By the age of ten, about half of them have experienced what they describe as homophobia.

And as far as to the idea that homosexuality is genetic, Dr Dean Hammer still assures us these 20 years later that he has isolated the gay gene.

[Juan_Bottom]

This is from Nanette's wiki page, I just want to make sure everyone has to look at it.

In June 2010, the NLLFS study The USA National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of the 17-Year-Old Adolescents was published in Pediatrics.[7] The study's results showed that the 17-year-olds of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts. This publication prompted international media attention including articles in The Los Angeles Times,[8] The Telegraph (UK),[9] Time,[10] and mention on The Colbert Report.[11] Discover Magazine then named this story as one of the top 100 stories of 2010—#88: Same-Sex Parents Do No Harm.[12]

[Woodruff]

a kid deserves a mom and a dad

Do you believe that single parents shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

depending on why they are single parents (did one parent die?)

Why they are single parents is irrelevant, since you believe a kid deserves both a mom and a dad. If one of them dies, then you apparently believe that single parent should no longer be allowed to raise their children, because they wouldn't have both the mom and dad that they deserve.

why they are single parents is relevant for the children, kids naturally deserve both parents,
if one of them dies, single parent is allowed to raise their children, what do you think?

I think that you're inconstent and hypocritical, that's what I think.

want to take the last parent left to the kid, want to take that away from the kid?
u misunderstood something here

I'm quite certain that it wasn't I that misunderstood something.

a divorce is not an option

That is a really idiotic statement. Anyone who would suggest that a spouse stay with their abusive partner "just because" borders on the sociopathic.

are u emotionaly hurt?

No. How is that relevant to your inane statement?

whats idiotic on this statement, u give me an abusive partnership as example, like extemes , dont you?

You believe an abusive relationship is an "extreme" (as in not very common)? You need to learn a lot about the world.

here is my answer, when is the partner abusive - what happened?= i need the full story

No you don't. Abuse is abuse.

how long for has he been abusive, what kind of abusiveness? it all depends,
if we are talking about long time abusiveness, maybe alcohol involved,
but i answer it to you, no spouse has to stay with an abusive partner

But you said divorce was not an option. Make up your mind...more inconsistency from you here.

Do you believe an infertile couple shouldn't be allowed to raise children?

a infertile lesbian couple? NO

Are you going to answer the question I asked, or are you going to coward out of it?

infertile couple should be allowed to raise children,
infertile lesbian gay couple, should not be allowed to raise children,
infertile gay man couple , they should either be not allowed to raise children

Why is an infertile heterosexual couple more capable of raising a child than a homosexual couple?

did this answers satysfie you, or do u have another question?

You raise more questions than you answer. Which shouldn't be surprising, since you aren't really answering them.

i know, there are baaaad parents on this world,they cant cope with them selves, so they cant cope with their kids,
but those kids of those unable parents, love their mum and dad for sure

No. No, that's definitely not "for sure". Most of the time, probably. But definitely not "for sure".

bad luck, they get over it and love comes back

So you're what...fourteen years old or so, I'm guessing?

i can only repeat that too, children with a bad childhood, will suffer all there time, their bad memorys will stay forever
until there comes a time, they have forgiven, forgiven their parents, and get along with their current life
some can do it, some cant
sorry about your past, but for today and your future - dont blame your parents, thats cowardish too
get over it, get your life together and move on in a positive way, its no point running around
with hate in your soul, forget hate and bad energys,
focus on yourself, and only u can do that, everything else is lazy
and start believing,
some believe in god, some believe in themselves
and some dont believe at all
if u fall deep, dont believe somebody will be here to pick u up,
u have to do that yourself
didnt get it ? you dont have too
what i mean is, take responsibility
any more questions?

What does all of that tripe have to do with kids having to love their unfit parents?

So...am I actually trying to have this discussion with a 14-year-old?

[Woodruff]

1-3% sounds a little low, as Woody says there's likely a bunch of people who are on the fence or gay but have well and truely repressed it (to the point of maybe even not even knowing they are potentially gay).

This is based on talking to a very, er, open gay couple who have regular same-sex threesomes. They said they almost exclusively pick up "straight" (and usually married) guys. I have heard elseware (rumor etc) that this is about right (i.e. theres a lot of repressed potential homosexuals).

Just look at our politicians as a "test bed" (heh).

[thegreekdog]

The Catholic Church is a large supporter of orphanages and adoptions, probably mostly because of it's stance on abortion. A friend of mine is an adopted child whose birth mother had as a condition of adoption that she be raised Catholic.

Just take a step back for a second and think about this. Wow.

A hugely rich organisaton funds orphanages across the world, and only gives out kids to couples when it has guarantees that those kids be indoctrinated from birth into that organisation's propaganda, an indoctrination that often lasts an entire lifetime.

Imagine for a moment we weren't talking about the church, but McDonalds or Coca Cola or someone doing this. The iChild, you can now get a kid but you have to sign a contract saying that any piece of tech you buy him/her has to be from Apple wherever Apple makes a version of that gadget. We want him hooked for life on our brand!

(Yes, a little sensationalist I admit, but I hope you can see the point here - and it's something that if your assertion is at least widespread practice, makes me not sad at all that the catholic church is being told to gtfo)

Sorry. I think I confused you. The birth parents of the girl required the adoptive parents to raise the adopted girl Catholic. The church-run orphanges weren't involved at all. Nice diatribe though!

[thegreekdog]

PS, you still haven't answered my questions. That's okay though, I really didn't expect you too. Ta!

[Woodruff]

The Catholic Church is a large supporter of orphanages and adoptions, probably mostly because of it's stance on abortion. A friend of mine is an adopted child whose birth mother had as a condition of adoption that she be raised Catholic.

Just take a step back for a second and think about this. Wow.

A hugely rich organisaton funds orphanages across the world, and only gives out kids to couples when it has guarantees that those kids be indoctrinated from birth into that organisation's propaganda, an indoctrination that often lasts an entire lifetime.

Imagine for a moment we weren't talking about the church, but McDonalds or Coca Cola or someone doing this. The iChild, you can now get a kid but you have to sign a contract saying that any piece of tech you buy him/her has to be from Apple wherever Apple makes a version of that gadget. We want him hooked for life on our brand!

(Yes, a little sensationalist I admit, but I hope you can see the point here - and it's something that if your assertion is at least widespread practice, makes me not sad at all that the catholic church is being told to gtfo)

Sorry. I think I confused you. The birth parents of the girl required the adoptive parents to raise the adopted girl Catholic. The church-run orphanges weren't involved at all. Nice diatribe though!

That seems like an odd requirement of someone who was giving up the child. I mean...you need to give up the child for some reason, but want to levy requirements on it that may keep it out of a loving home?

At any rate, those requirements sound like the job of a godparent, rather than an adoptive parent.

[b.k. barunt]

Every single study that has ever been done aside from those linked to religious groups, EVERY ONE, has shown that there is no difference between the development of a child raised by gay parents and a child raised by hetero parents. .

I like this. "Every single study" eh? Lets rephrase your statement in a slightly more honest form: Every single study by pro-gays has shown there is no difference . . . while studies from anti-gays show different results. Looks a bit different now doesn't it?


Honibaz

I do literally mean every single peer-reviewed study, dating all the way back to the late 60s. This has been used to lend weight to the argument that sexual identity and preference is genetic, and not taught.

You do "literally mean every peer-reviewed study . . ." Now you leave out "aside from those linked to religious groups". Which is it? Every single one or every single one besides those "linked to religious groups"? And how many of these "studies" would you have us believe you've read? No no don't go running for Google to help you out on this one - seriously, you throw out statistics like these and expect anyone to take you seriously? Homosexuality is genetic? Cite me one experiment by name (that has been replicated) that supports this hypothesis. How about the "Gay Brain" experiment that "proved" the hypothalamus of the brain was larger on gay males than straight? How about the "Gay Twins" experiment? Unlike you i've actually given time and effort to studying this subject and am not glibly pulling concocted generalities out of my ass. You have no idea what kind of studies have been done in this area and your generic delivery gives this away like a neon casino sign.


Honibaz

Careful here, because I do know what I'm talking about.

Stephanie Koontz
(author and professor of history in family studies at Evergreen State College)

There's no such thing as a traditional family. Families have taken every shape imaginable throughout history. The most common marriage form in history was one man and many women. Marriage has been constantly changing. The idea of one man and one woman nuclear family.... that's a pretty rare family form in history.

Dr. Nanette Gartrell
(Professor of Psychiatry UC San Fransisco)

Brian Brown is completely inaccurate in making a statement that longitudinal studies of lesbian families don't exist.
I have an enormously well-founded long-term study that has been going on for 18 years. And there are studies in Europe as well. The papers have been published. And all I can say is Brian Brown has not doing his research.
What we know from the studies of children who are older, who were raised by lesbian moms or gay dads, is that the incidents of those children becoming lesbian or gay is no different from the population in general.

The only negative?

By the age of ten, about half of them have experienced what they describe as homophobia.

And as far as to the idea that homosexuality is genetic, Dr Dean Hammer still assures us these 20 years later that he has isolated the gay gene.

He "assures" us??? Niggaplease. Still wondering about your "every single study" allegation. Your citing one study doesn't really do a lot to support that claim does it? I asked you to cite one experiment that was replicated which offered any proof that homosexuality was biologically based and you hand me this "he assures us" crap??? Sorry dude, i am not assured, only more convinced that you don't know whatthefuck you're talking about and are very easily "assured".


Honibaz

[thegreekdog]

The Catholic Church is a large supporter of orphanages and adoptions, probably mostly because of it's stance on abortion. A friend of mine is an adopted child whose birth mother had as a condition of adoption that she be raised Catholic.

Just take a step back for a second and think about this. Wow.

A hugely rich organisaton funds orphanages across the world, and only gives out kids to couples when it has guarantees that those kids be indoctrinated from birth into that organisation's propaganda, an indoctrination that often lasts an entire lifetime.

Imagine for a moment we weren't talking about the church, but McDonalds or Coca Cola or someone doing this. The iChild, you can now get a kid but you have to sign a contract saying that any piece of tech you buy him/her has to be from Apple wherever Apple makes a version of that gadget. We want him hooked for life on our brand!

(Yes, a little sensationalist I admit, but I hope you can see the point here - and it's something that if your assertion is at least widespread practice, makes me not sad at all that the catholic church is being told to gtfo)

Sorry. I think I confused you. The birth parents of the girl required the adoptive parents to raise the adopted girl Catholic. The church-run orphanges weren't involved at all. Nice diatribe though!

That seems like an odd requirement of someone who was giving up the child. I mean...you need to give up the child for some reason, but want to levy requirements on it that may keep it out of a loving home?

At any rate, those requirements sound like the job of a godparent, rather than an adoptive parent.

Meh, I didn't get into a lot of details about it. I think it had to do with that portfolio thing that JB was talking about maybe.

[Baron Von PWN]

This is from Nanette's wiki page, I just want to make sure everyone has to look at it.

In June 2010, the NLLFS study The USA National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of the 17-Year-Old Adolescents was published in Pediatrics.[7] The study's results showed that the 17-year-olds of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts. This publication prompted international media attention including articles in The Los Angeles Times,[8] The Telegraph (UK),[9] Time,[10] and mention on The Colbert Report.[11] Discover Magazine then named this story as one of the top 100 stories of 2010—#88: Same-Sex Parents Do No Harm.[12]

I bet the motivation dedication required to be a queer parent has a whole lot to do with those findings.

[Phatscotty]

when did that study start?

[Woodruff]

This is from Nanette's wiki page, I just want to make sure everyone has to look at it.

In June 2010, the NLLFS study The USA National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of the 17-Year-Old Adolescents was published in Pediatrics.[7] The study's results showed that the 17-year-olds of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts. This publication prompted international media attention including articles in The Los Angeles Times,[8] The Telegraph (UK),[9] Time,[10] and mention on The Colbert Report.[11] Discover Magazine then named this story as one of the top 100 stories of 2010—#88: Same-Sex Parents Do No Harm.[12]

I bet the motivation dedication required to be a queer parent has a whole lot to do with those findings.

Yeah, I would agree with that. At this point in history, someone in that vein is going to be top-of-the-line.

It's like the classes I teach. One of my classes takes place before school, so that students who want to take the class but don't have room in their schedule can still take it. Well, that before-school class consistently outperforms all of the other classes. It's not surprising, when you realize that each of them is obviously more motivated than the average student in that they're willing to show up to school an hour early to take a class they don't have to take.

[Baron Von PWN]

when did that study start?

From wikipedia

Gartrell is the Principal Researcher for the US National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study (NLLFS). The NLLFS follows lesbian mothers and their children who were conceived by donor insemination during the 1980s. The study, which was initiated by Gartrell in 1986, examines the social, psychological, and emotional development of the children as well as the dynamics of planned lesbian families. This is the longest-running and largest prospective investigation of lesbian mothers and their children in the United States