Occupy Wall Street: Support or Oppose? (OWS vs. Nativity)

[BigBallinStalin]

4 rapes at Occupy Wall Street protests. 4 women's life and privacy and innocene tragically forced into sex against their will.

Deny it all you want, call me all the names you want. Reality is reality, and rape is rape. Ignore it all, ripping on my post will not take back those rapes or over 2,500 arrests or move that 2.4 million in spending from dealing with drug crazed rapists to help feed hungry or homeless people.

You guys have lots of honor though.

And the rapists should be found, prosecuted, and imprisoned if proven guilty.

This doesn't require mass arrests coupled with shooting and gassing all peaceful protesters.

[rockfist]

No one was advocating for shooting and gassing all peaceful protestors.

The mass arrests were for crimes other than rape. Rape isn't the only crime some of these protestors committed. Its the worst so far that we know of.

[Baron Von PWN]

The notion that the tea party protests have cost the public purse 0$ is frankly absurd. I think it might say more about the authorities that there have been so many arrests at ows protests than the protesters.

How many tea partiers were shot at protests? How often did the police throw flash grenades at a group of people attempting to help an injured protester? How much tea party property was confiscated by police? How many tea partiers were arrested under specially passed legislation for that purpose? I think the answer to all those questions is 0. I think the reason for that is the game is rigged. the Occupy movement couldn't be safely ignored anymore so big money is pulling its strings with the state and the media. They will make sure enough noise is made the message will be buried forever.

[Phatscotty]

The notion that the tea party protests have cost the public purse 0$ is frankly absurd. I think it might say more about the authorities that there have been so many arrests at ows protests than the protesters.

How many tea partiers were shot at protests? How often did the police throw flash grenades at a group of people attempting to help an injured protester? How much tea party property was confiscated by police? How many tea partiers were arrested under specially passed legislation for that purpose? I think the answer to all those questions is 0. I think the reason for that is the game is rigged. the Occupy movement couldn't be safely ignored anymore so big money is pulling its strings with the state and the media. They will make sure enough noise is made the message will be buried forever.

It has to be said, since at a Tea Party nobody broke the law (despite millions of guns being packed on site!) or attacked police officers, therefore, there was never a person who was injured or required help, and the Tea Party has never given the police a legitimate reason to flash grenade them. You are correct in the answer though, zero.

[Aradhus]

To be fair, there was nobody at any tea party protest who was younger than 65. It makes sense that there was no criminality there.

Occupy is full of young bucks looking for a reason. (not that I accept the premise promulgated by Snotty here.)

[Baron Von PWN]

The notion that the tea party protests have cost the public purse 0$ is frankly absurd. I think it might say more about the authorities that there have been so many arrests at ows protests than the protesters.

How many tea partiers were shot at protests? How often did the police throw flash grenades at a group of people attempting to help an injured protester? How much tea party property was confiscated by police? How many tea partiers were arrested under specially passed legislation for that purpose? I think the answer to all those questions is 0. I think the reason for that is the game is rigged. the Occupy movement couldn't be safely ignored anymore so big money is pulling its strings with the state and the media. They will make sure enough noise is made the message will be buried forever.

It has to be said, since at a Tea Party nobody broke the law (despite millions of guns being packed on site!) or attacked police officers, therefore, there was never a person who was injured or required help, and the Tea Party has never given the police a legitimate reason to flash grenade them. You are correct in the answer though, zero.

Yeah these guys were being so threatening to the cops when they were flash banged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... ZLyUK0t0vQ

also its pretty easy to break a law specifically made so they could arrest the protesters.http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/arch ... n-to-plaza

[Phatscotty]

like I said, that is just one p.o.v., as I have shown repeatedly that the protesters attacked the police first, and that can stretch back decades if you really want to get into "who started it", but we can't dismiss the long history of past abuses on both sides. This has been brewing for a long time. However, there are organized groups as a fact in Oakkland who's job it is to start shit and challenge police authority at every instance whenever possible and they long for violence. It's not going to be as easy as "they are just innocent victims". The fact their movement has produced going on 3,000 arrests and some arrests for rapes and sexual misconduct and that there are many examples of "f*ck the police" prevalent does not work in Occupiers favor as far as "innocent victims" go either.

[Night Strike]

If you support OWS, I hope you know that this is what you will be getting:

Click image to enlarge.

[Aradhus]

If you support OWS, I hope you know that this is what you will be getting:

Click image to enlarge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE&ob=av3e

[GreecePwns]

A few racist slurs in a Tea Party crowd? "A few bad apples don't represent the entire group."

4 accusations of rape at OWS events that have yet to be tried? "They're all mindless fiends."

Also, the above Night Strike post reminds me of a Monty Python video that I can't find anywhere:

"I work on the futures market."
"Well, how does that...help?"

[Night Strike]

A few racist slurs in a Tea Party crowd? "A few bad apples don't represent the entire group."

4 accusations of rape at OWS events that have yet to be tried? "They're all mindless fiends."

Also, the above Night Strike post reminds me of a Monty Python video that I can't find anywhere:

"I work on the futures market."
"Well, how does that...help?"

When a few people made racist comments at Tea Party events, the ENTIRE MOVEMENT was labeled as racist by liberals and the media. When a few people were arrested for rape, Phatscotty did NOT say the entire movement was comprised of rapists.

[Phatscotty]

A few racist slurs in a Tea Party crowd? "A few bad apples don't represent the entire group."

4 accusations of rape at OWS events that have yet to be tried? "They're all mindless fiends."

something supposedly racially offensive said (and not illegal) is not even on the same planet as a woman being forced into sex against her will.

Some OWS rape, sexual misconduct, sexual assault,statutory rape, and indecent exposure arrests have been made, and again investigations are occuring, some have been charged, a trial (if any) yes will take a while. This is where we get into comparing 2,500 arrests at occupy in 40 days to 0 arrests in the Tea Party over 900 days. There are also rape charges in many other countries Occupy protests Occupy Glasgow for one (Gang Rape) with another "official statement" from some Occupy "leaders".

To quote one of the Occupier leaders most experienced and respected leaders....

By the time people realize what our movement is all about,the occupation will have already taken place.

- FF Piven

Please understand, I have a lot in common with some of what these protesters say, and have said many times that there is even a place for the voice of Tea Party in this movement (ANTI-Fed Bank, ANTI-Bailout) and my vote here is "U R doing it wrong" so don't get me all twisted.

[GreecePwns]

Scotty, the main point is arrest does not = guilt. People are frequently brought to jail for a few hours until the OWS lawyers prove there was no reason for the arrest. For example, at least 800 of those arrests were a result of police deliberately misleading protesters on Brooklyn Bridge, telling them they may cross and then arresting them as they walked on (in fact, they are allowed to occupy the sidewalks of the bridge, but the police had told them they were allowed to walk freely through the middle. It doesn't take a genius to guess what was waiting for the protesters halfway across the bridge).

And to which group, the Tea Party (which has been co-opted by certain monied interests) or OWS (which after consistent visits to Zucotti Park I am 100 percent sure they are not), would the state fear more and do more to repress? Why are there so many of such frivolous arrests being made at OWS, an encampment that cannot realistically be housing more than 500 on-site?

One could say because they are gathered illegally. But Scotty, you ignore the reality that obtaining a permit for such an undertaking would be impossible. What incentive does the American state, which inherently protects the rich, have to allow a group that likely (and in fact does but they are only parts of the whole) include communists and other anarchists of all sorts, socialists, etc, to gather?

[Phatscotty]

I know. I know. I know. It's not really about permits that much, even though that is still BS and we all know there is at least somewhat of a double standard here concerning that, but your point is valid about the undertaking being impossible. Sometimes I am pissed that these guys didn't have their shit together and weren't organized so that possibly they would create an environment that people like me could get with and join forces and REALLY bring some change to this mother fucker, but this aint it. It even seems to be more divisive and I feel like if I got out of the car the couple times I went down there and said how I felt I would get run out of there and maybe have some shit thrown at me. I'm just going to have to wait for the "official" birth of this movement that will be organized and have a clear message. It pisses me off how these people are going about it, but that's up to you and them. I can tell you are deep in it and honestly I know that feeling. Help them get their shit together and make this a real 99% please cuz there is just too much BS right now and I can't get with a lot of the crazier messengers who get the air time, but I even see the hand picked interviews by outlets like MSNBC completely bomb with these people. I also feel a little offended they claim to be the 99%. I get it financially, really I do, but I don't want to hear them saying they represent 99% of people as if every person but the 1% endorse what they say. Just a lil bone there but I like ya sometimes so theres a bone! I am hardcore against the bailouts just as much as you guys are, and I will end this simply by saying they are occupying the wrong street and they need to get to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and their message should be hardcore focused against Economic Fascism.

And please guys if you want to do the rape stuff please go to the rape thread. I would like for this thread to be about the issues of OWS, and not the inside problems they are having at the moment with drugs n sex stuff. I know I myself have probably brought rape into this thread, but I'm not gonna anymore.

[Lootifer]

And please guys if you want to do the rape stuff please go to the rape thread. I would like for this thread to be about the issues of OWS, and not the inside problems they are having at the moment with drugs n sex stuff. I know I myself have probably brought rape into this thread, but I'm not gonna anymore.

Bravo...

edit: im being sarcastic; my analogy in this case is "im going to paint the the all the walls red whether you like red or not, but then we're no longer going to talk about the merits of red paint, ok?"

[Phatscotty]

And please guys if you want to do the rape stuff please go to the rape thread. I would like for this thread to be about the issues of OWS, and not the inside problems they are having at the moment with drugs n sex stuff. I know I myself have probably brought rape into this thread, but I'm not gonna anymore.

Bravo...

edit: im being sarcastic; my analogy in this case is "im going to paint the the all the walls red whether you like red or not, but then we're no longer going to talk about the merits of red paint, ok?"

you cant choose the color of facts. The rape thingy got condensed into a longer more general list of OSW crimes and arrests

[Lootifer]

Support Occupy! Tea Party are scum!

So some facts;

- 4 sick individuals happened to be associated to the protest
- Both the protestors and police are to blame for the high amount of arrests; additionally the occupy movement is generally associated with low income earners, which traditionally have higher crime rates.
- The Occupy movement has cost the tax payer 2.4 mil (a staggering <10c per person in the US); how much has the Tea Party movement cost the private enterprises who fund it?

Explain to me, how each of these points have any bearing on the value of the Occupy movements' ideas?

[Phatscotty]

2.4 million can feed a lot of starving people, as well as pay a lot of teachers and firemen. I think the right way to do it is to create a way that costs nothing and does not further burden already overwhelmed city and state budgets and still make their point. the cost will rise much further, guaranteed. Just wait until Spring 2012!

Dude, we had cops everywhere asking people to "please conceal your handgun" and even helicopters chillin over our heads watching us because they did not know what to expect. We waved (because it was a government worker ). It was America for a couple hours in that crowd let me tell ya.

While we are at it, what are or what do you think the Occupy movements ideas are? I am totally willing to listen.

[GreecePwns]

The $2.4 million is being spent on the police force surrounding the park and blocks around it. This is an entirely optional additional expense by the government, and an excessively large one at that. What you describe sounds very similar to "police force surrounding the park and blocks around it." Yet your image says the Tea Party rallies, of which there have been thousands more than OWS rallies, have cost the government nothing. You want to be taken seriously or not?

[AndyDufresne]

OWS is costing us money. Time to send in the drones and do it right.

Am I right? Or am I right? Or am I right. Right.

Right.


--Andy

[spurgistan]

If you support OWS, I hope you know that this is what you will be getting:

Click image to enlarge.

"it's gambling until you lose..." with other people's money. Can I gamble with your life savings? I'm not too good, I might blow it all, and I might lie to you and tell you I'm playing blackjack (a perfectly safe investment) when I'm actually trying out baccarat (seriously, wtf is baccarat) but it's all perfectly legal. According to the regulations I paid my friends off to loosen.

[Lootifer]

2.4 million can feed a lot of starving people, as well as pay a lot of teachers and firemen. I think the right way to do it is to create a way that costs nothing and does not further burden already overwhelmed city and state budgets and still make their point. the cost will rise much further, guaranteed. Just wait until Spring 2012!

Dude, we had cops everywhere asking people to "please conceal your handgun" and even helicopters chillin over our heads watching us because they did not know what to expect. We waved (because it was a government worker ). It was America for a couple hours in that crowd let me tell ya.

how much has the Tea Party movement cost the private enterprises who fund it?

While we are at it, what are or what do you think the Occupy movements ideas are? I am totally willing to listen.

Generally speaking they oppose corporate greed; I have said on many previous occasions that they have made some idiotic mistakes, but I dont think that takes away from their "major" theme (major as I see it).

[Lootifer]

If you support OWS, I hope you know that this is what you will be getting:

Click image to enlarge.

I lol'd at the "do you really think we are incapable of teachiong 3rd graders [?]"

Why yes good sir I do think you are incapable of teaching a 3rd grader. You are a washed out speculator who knows how to count without using your toes and write some nifty formulas in excel. Sorry if I would like the person who teaches my [hypothetical] kids to have a holistic view of the world includes slightly more than "buy low, sell high".

Seriously only thing I would hire a newly unemployeed trader (the good ones will still be employeed FYI) is to sell used cars.

[Night Strike]

Congratulations OWS for killing jobs and small businesses. You're doing a great job sticking it to those big and evil corporations! I see them cutting jobs and losing business left and right.

A New York City cafe cut its staff by nearly 25 percent last week because of lost business due to the ongoing Occupy Wall Street protests, the cafe's owner told FoxNews.com.

Marc Epstein, owner of the Milk Street Cafe at 40 Wall Street in lower Manhattan, said he had to cut 21 of the 97 members of his staff on Thursday and Friday after seeing sales plummet by 30 percent in the six weeks since the protests began. He's also been forced to slash the restaurant operating hours, moving up his closing time from 9 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. Mondays through Thursdays.

The incessant noise and police activity aside, Epstein said the biggest obstacle to his business has been the ubiquitous New York police barricades surrounding Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan.

"It's not only a physical impediment, it's a psychological impediment," Epstein told FoxNews.com. "You look down Wall Street now, and it looks like it's under siege. So, people who have to walk down Wall Street don't walk down Wall Street. It used to be a beautiful pedestrian mall, and now it's not -- it's ugly."

If the barricades are not removed, Epstein said he "cannot see" how his business could sustain itself. The eatery, which opened in June, is a $4 million venture and is an expansion of the Boston restaurant he and his wife opened decades earlier.

"It's my first venture in New York and my last venture in New York," he said.

Epstein said he has pleaded with city officials, the New York police and his landlord, Donald Trump, to get the barricades removed, but he has been unable to get a return call from the city and the New York police. He was told by Trump himself, however, that the real estate mogul would try to contact city officials in hopes of removing the barricades.

Marc LaVorgna, a spokesman for Mayor Michael Bloomberg, said city officials are discussing potential solutions with Milk Street Cafe and other businesses near the protests on an ongoing basis.

"We have been working with businesses and the community to address the issues caused by the protests and will continue to do so," he told FoxNews.com.

FoxNews.com's calls seeking comment from New York police officials were not returned on Tuesday.

Trump, who owns a 68-story skyscraper near the site, told FoxNews.com that Epstein is not the only business owner taking a severe hit since the protests began.

"It's a very sad situation," Trump told FoxNews.com by phone. "They opened up to rave reviews and now because of Occupy Wall Street, nobody's going down there. People are shunning the area; it's a very big problem."

Trump said he is "in the process" of discussing the potential removal of the barricades with city officials.

"I hope so," Trump said when asked if he thought city officials will be sympathetic to his request.

Prior to last week's terminations, Epstein told Bloomberg late last month that the police barricades surrounding Zuccotti Park have deterred shoppers and caused about a 20 percent drop in sales.

Asked if he felt the protesters realized they were hurting his business, Epstein replied: "I'm very afraid of getting into what they are thinking and whether it's the police or the protesters because I don't want to get mixed up in the battle between them. But everyone should understand the consequences of their actions and nobody is."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/01/owner-occupy-wall-street-cost-restaurant-21-jobs-and-counting/?test=latestnews#ixzz1cYrxa4eI

[GreecePwns]

Did the protesters put the police barricades up? Also, capitalism.