Logic dictates that there is a God!

[DRoZ]

"Actually i was referring to Onan spilling his seed on the ground because he refused to have children with his sister-in-law. "

Although definition's are slightly different for the word incest, the most common is sexual intercourse between persons so closely related that they are forbidden by law to marry. If Er was dead then it would be lawful for Onan to marry Tamar, thus not being incest.

[Augusta]

So then why are people born with homosexual tendancies?

They aren't. No more than an alcoholic is born with the tendency to drink beer

Are you really for real?
Then explain this to me jay darling... there are pinguins that are gay (two living in an aquarium here in Norway and being quite the attraction), they have also found gay foxes. And why is it that most of the time you can see if a child might be gay or not from a really young age? There is extensive research in this field and only backward people still claim what you claim. One brother of mine is gay - and believe me - there was little doubt even when he was a child. He was born that way.

You know what jay - you and your kind are the reason there is still intolerance, racism, poverty, despair, war and all that shit still in the world. You and your kind are the reason humanity is struggeling.
You place yourself on that high horse of moral and think that you somehow are a better person for it... and of course its just the other way around.

omnia vincit amor - even ignorance like yours in the end.

[DRoZ]

I have been curious about animal homosexuality occuring in captivity, but has there been any studies of this same homosexuality in the wild ... I'm not trying to contradict anyone I'm just curious.

[DRoZ]

At one of the houses I grew up in my neighbor had two gay chow's ... always made me laugh.

[Augusta]

well the gay foxes found in England where not in captivity...

but since they are still being hunted down all the time by "good citizens on their high horses" maybe they don't have a choice - maybe in that area all the female foxes had been shot and they thought "what the heck - i'm gettin' some lovin' before i'm shot as well: hi there neighbour male fox - nice fur have"

[jay_a2j]

So then why are people born with homosexual tendancies?

They aren't. No more than an alcoholic is born with the tendency to drink beer

Are you really for real?
Then explain this to me jay darling... there are pinguins that are gay (two living in an aquarium here in Norway and being quite the attraction), they have also found gay foxes. And why is it that most of the time you can see if a child might be gay or not from a really young age? There is extensive research in this field and only backward people still claim what you claim. One brother of mine is gay - and believe me - there was little doubt even when he was a child. He was born that way.

You know what jay - you and your kind are the reason there is still intolerance, racism, poverty, despair, war and all that shit still in the world. You and your kind are the reason humanity is struggeling.
You place yourself on that high horse of moral and think that you somehow are a better person for it... and of course its just the other way around.

omnia vincit amor - even ingorance like this in the end.

I was waiting for Augusta to chime in!

She wrote: " you and your kind are the reason there is still intolerance, racism, poverty, despair, war and all that shit still in the world."


God does not "tolarate" sin and neither should we. I'm as far as you can get from racist. Poverty? Christians everywhere (including me) give money to the poor. War.... Refering to Bush here? I have my doubts about Bush's "faith". But a Christian should not just sit back and let others attack their country. "all the crap in the world" ... your hatred is aimed at the wrong target "we fight not against flesh and bones but against spirits and principalities" (don't know the verse but can get it)

Christians are NOT your enemy! Satan is. Out of curiosity how does an infant "show" that he has gay tendencies? I think people find it just "easier to believe" that a person is "born gay". As for animals...well, they are animal... they don't have conscience of right and wrong. They don't have spirits. Humans do.

[DRoZ]

ahh, I did find this from national geographic.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.

She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."

[DRoZ]

oh and to Augusta ... I in no way meant to say I didnt believe you, I was just asking a question.

[AndyDufresne]

Imagine if Droz's post was applied to people... 'Come here...' **Various act** 'I just want to further my social status' **Various act**.


--Andy

[DRoZ]

lol...

[DRoZ]

oh but it does happen with people, look at female porn stars... I'm sure they make some extra money with the girl on girl stuff. Although it's enhancing their social standing in a completely different way.

[Augusta]

oh and to Augusta ... I in no way meant to say I didnt believe you, I was just asking a question.

and my response with the foxes was meant as a joke - even if they in fact do exist (if not shot by now that is)

[AndyDufresne]

Hehe, true. I wouldn't doubt that. I was thinking though more in a office work place setting.


--Andy

[Augusta]

So then why are people born with homosexual tendancies?

They aren't. No more than an alcoholic is born with the tendency to drink beer

Are you really for real?
Then explain this to me jay darling... there are pinguins that are gay (two living in an aquarium here in Norway and being quite the attraction), they have also found gay foxes. And why is it that most of the time you can see if a child might be gay or not from a really young age? There is extensive research in this field and only backward people still claim what you claim. One brother of mine is gay - and believe me - there was little doubt even when he was a child. He was born that way.

You know what jay - you and your kind are the reason there is still intolerance, racism, poverty, despair, war and all that shit still in the world. You and your kind are the reason humanity is struggeling.
You place yourself on that high horse of moral and think that you somehow are a better person for it... and of course its just the other way around.

omnia vincit amor - even ingorance like this in the end.

I was waiting for Augusta to chime in!

Please don't wink at me jay - you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth.

Oh - and by the way jay... intolerance is a sin - so you are a sinner. Even if you do hide behind the word of God... which of course was written by humans and knowing the human race and its wiill to control things I do take what the bible says with some caution.

[jay_a2j]

Please don't wink at me jay - you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth.

Oh - and by the way jay... intolerance is a sin - so you are a sinner. Even if you do hide behind the word of God... which of course was written by humans and knowing the human race and its wiill to control things I do take what the bible says with some caution.

First of all I'm happily married. And if I wasn't you wouldn't stand a chance for obvios reasons. Its a winky smilie not a sexual pass.

No...judgement of others is sin.... judging the sin itself is not. I now I am a sinnner but by Gods grace I am forgiven. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God. You first must come to the realization that God's word IS God's word before faith in God can even start. Many a person have set out to prove the Bible wrong ...yet it has not happened.

[vtmarik]

Please don't wink at me jay - you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth.

Oh - and by the way jay... intolerance is a sin - so you are a sinner. Even if you do hide behind the word of God... which of course was written by humans and knowing the human race and its wiill to control things I do take what the bible says with some caution.

Ooooh, nice one!

*drops to one knee and bows head* My liege!

[vtmarik]

First of all I'm happily married. And if I wasn't you wouldn't stand a chance for obvios reasons. Its a winky smilie not a sexual pass.

No...judgement of others is sin.... judging the sin itself is not. I now I am a sinnner but by Gods grace I am forgiven. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God. You first must come to the realization that God's word IS God's word before faith in God can even start. Many a person have set out to prove the Bible wrong ...yet it has not happened.

Yes it has. But unfortunately you believe the Bible too much to let your rational mind see the evidence.

Its there, your rational mind percieves it, but then your super ego (to use a freudian term) kicks into high gear and convinces you that its all a test to see if you are really faithful.

To paraphrase Hermes Conrad: You poor demented honky.

[DRoZ]

What has been proven wrong about it? Please explain.

[Augusta]

Please don't wink at me jay - you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth.

Oh - and by the way jay... intolerance is a sin - so you are a sinner. Even if you do hide behind the word of God... which of course was written by humans and knowing the human race and its wiill to control things I do take what the bible says with some caution.

First of all I'm happily married. And if I wasn't you wouldn't stand a chance for obvios reasons. Its a winky smilie not a sexual pass.

No...judgement of others is sin.... judging the sin itself is not. I now I am a sinnner but by Gods grace I am forgiven. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God. You first must come to the realization that God's word IS God's word before faith in God can even start. Many a person have set out to prove the Bible wrong ...yet it has not happened.

No one have been able to prove it right either so still a 50-50 chance then jayboy - there are a lot of holes in the text for one simple reason - when the gospels for the bible where chosen (among several other gospels the few in the Bible where chosen by priests - not God) many, many where thrown out for political reasons. Historicaly The Church (take your pick, there are so many of them but biggest certainly the Catholic one) have always been just as much a political institution as one for beliefs.
And conducting that kind of politics that I'm sure is not what God was/is cheering for.

And the wink darling jay - your response to my response just goes to show that a man without humor is a sad, sad man indeed. Poor wifey is all I can say. I never believed it was a sexual pass for crying out loud - I'm sure you wouldn't know how to make one even if you tried.

[vtmarik]

What has been proven wrong about it? Please explain.

Well, let's see. Quick list:

• We've found geological strata that dates the earth back past 6000 years ago. (debunking young Earth creationism)
• No written record was found of a prisoner or execution of any man named Jesus in Roman Times (The romans were sticklers for writing everything down)
• No geological or hydrological proof that Moses ever split the Red Sea
• Researchers found that Ramses' first born son was quite probably killed during an accident where he fell off the back of a moving carriage rather than being struck down by God during the 10th plague. Not proof, but a more likely explanation.

That's only a few bits of proof there. Now, I know that God himself cannot prove that he exists. Because with proof there is no more need for faith since his existance has become obvious. Without faith, however, God cannot exist. Therefore he would be ending his own existance by proving that he does exist.

Since Christianity is making the claim that a God exists, they must give evidence. A book written under "divine inspiration" is not evidence because we have no proof of the inspiration.

I for one would like to see proof that there is a God. And if you say a baby's smile i'll kick you right in the stomach.

I'm a spiritual man, and i'm quite past the somewhat solipsistic assumption that I was created by a God and that I was created in God's image. Perhaps you aren't ready to face the idea that if there is an actual God, rather then a sequence of concepts molded into the shape of a God, that He probably doesn't care what you do or who you have sex with. He would have realized that since we all have free will that we will f*ck up every now and again, but that's no reason to send us to some kind of melodramatic pit of fire.

If God exists, there can't be sin. For if God created man, man must be perfect, since an perfect being cannot create imperfection (it's just impossible). Sin is an imperfection, therefore if we were created by God then Sin cannot truly exist on the cosmic scale of being and becoming.

If we can sin, that means that God is imperfect. If God is imperfect, why are we worshipping Him and ignoring our Free Will to serve Him?

Sin is a method of putting "the fear of God" into people to pigeon-hole them into tithing their money to the Church and following what the Church says quite blindly. The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is fear. You cannot fear heights and love heights at the same time, so how can you fear God and love God at the same time?

Christianity is a religion of contradiction. The difference between you and I is that I see the contradictions and you choose to ignore them. However, that is not to say that I am better than you. I mean, I must remember those four magic words: I could be wrong.

Can you say those four magic words and believe what you are saying? Probably not.

[jay_a2j]

Please don't wink at me jay - you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth.

Oh - and by the way jay... intolerance is a sin - so you are a sinner. Even if you do hide behind the word of God... which of course was written by humans and knowing the human race and its wiill to control things I do take what the bible says with some caution.

First of all I'm happily married. And if I wasn't you wouldn't stand a chance for obvios reasons. Its a winky smilie not a sexual pass.

No...judgement of others is sin.... judging the sin itself is not. I now I am a sinnner but by Gods grace I am forgiven. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God. You first must come to the realization that God's word IS God's word before faith in God can even start. Many a person have set out to prove the Bible wrong ...yet it has not happened.

No one have been able to prove it right either so still a 50-50 chance then jayboy - there are a lot of holes in the text for one simple reason - when the gospels for the bible where chosen (among several other gospels the few in the Bible where chosen by priests - not God) many, many where thrown out for political reasons. Historicaly The Church (take your pick, there are so many of them but biggest certainly the Catholic one) have always been just as much a political institution as one for beliefs.
And conducting that kind of politics that I'm sure is not what God was/is cheering for.

And the wink darling jay - your response to my response just goes to show that a man without humor is a sad, sad man indeed. Poor wifey is all I can say. I never believed it was a sexual pass for crying out loud - I'm sure you wouldn't know how to make one even if you tried.

It's Mr. jayboy thanks. I have a sense of humor (which might explain why I even come into these threads). This >>> " you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth" is not humor...its a veiled insult. Maybe in a parallel world if I wasn't married and you weren't a left-wing liberal, we might have had something. ( that is humor) oh darn, I clicked the wrong one! Please disregard and incert >> <<< in its place.


much love jay

[vtmarik]

It's Mr. jayboy thanks. I have a sense of humor (which might explain why I even come into these threads). This >>> " you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth" is not humor...its a veiled insult. Maybe in a parallel world if I wasn't married and you weren't a left-wing liberal, we might have had something. ( that is humor) oh darn, I clicked the wrong one! Please disregard and incert >> <<< in its place.


much love jay

*hits Jay with a squeaky hammer* Lighten up man.

[DRoZ]

Ok, well I will do my best to try to give my point of view on all those topics.

1. I have always been under the assumption that a young earth theory is approximately 10,000 years old. So it would not be surprising to find something 6,000 years old, besides what were the dating methods used to find the age of the layer of rock. I'm not saying that it's not that old I would just like to know all the information about it.

2. Ok this one might be a bit long, I'll agree most if not all historians agree that the romans enjoyed writing things down, however the man in charge of the crucifixion was Pontius Pilate. Although the Bible references him by name quite a few times, not much else does ... including roman and jewish writings, the only two jewish writers I could find were Josephus and Philo. A roman historian (Tacitus) mentions him once saying that "Christians" derived their name from "Christus" who "was executed at the hands of Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberus". Also the only known inscription from his lifetime naming Pontius as the governor who killed Jesus was a limestone slab found in 1961 by a team of archaeologists from Milan, Italy, who were looking at a huge amphitheater build by Herod the Great that said "The Tiberieum of the Caesareans Pontius Pilate Praefect of Judea has given". So if Pontius Pilate didn't keep records on much of anything why would it not be surprising that he wouldn't keep much on the crucifixion.

3. Back in the 70's someone (I can't remember their name and cant seem to find much about it on the internet) said they pulled out a hub of a chariot or wheel or something from the Red Sea, It was later said to be from later than moses's time but it disappeared soon after and they stopped allowing people to search the Red Sea for anything. I did find about a documentary called "Exodus" to be releases in 2007 that will talk about this subject.

4. No offense but a more likely explanation is just what you said ... not proof.

I don't mean to come off as trying to say that I am right and you are wrong, I am just enjoying this healthy debate. I mean no harm I just feel that the only way people will learn more about the world around us is if we discuss and argue and debate until new information is learned.

Besides I am just passing time until the players in my games move.

[Augusta]

It's Mr. jayboy thanks. I have a sense of humor (which might explain why I even come into these threads). This >>> " you wouldn't stand a chance with me if you where the last man on earth" is not humor...its a veiled insult. Maybe in a parallel world if I wasn't married and you weren't a left-wing liberal, we might have had something. ( that is humor) oh darn, I clicked the wrong one! Please disregard and incert >> <<< in its place.
much love jay

left-wing liberal???

not everyone not being a fundementalist dark blue republican is left-wing you know... but then again... cannot expect more insight from persons wearing blindfolds and being proud of it.

Liberal does not equal left-wing. Not in Europe anyway - maybe we have more facets in politics than in the US?

"Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value. Broadly speaking, liberalism seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion..."

Have no problems with capitalism and liberalism, so left-wing doesn't describe me at all. I'm not a believer in socialism - to much "The State and Government will take care of everything - even how you think". Come to think of it - that fits you rather well. Sure you are not an elitist socialist?
Nice try though.

as for the sulking quote "...its a veiled insult" unquote. Put a sock in it jay... you insult people all the time with your arrogance. Not only that - you step on them as well if they are slightly different from you and your "truth".

Remember your words from another thread?

"Why cannot we all just get along?"

Look in the mirror - the answer to your question is very close to home.

Much love from me too - believe it or not.

[vtmarik]

Ok, well I will do my best to try to give my point of view on all those topics.

1. I have always been under the assumption that a young earth theory is approximately 10,000 years old. So it would not be surprising to find something 6,000 years old, besides what were the dating methods used to find the age of the layer of rock. I'm not saying that it's not that old I would just like to know all the information about it.

The young earth theory stems from a english bishop who, by tracing all of the births and generations listed in the bible, came to the conclusion that the Earth was created in 4554BCE, on a Tuesday.