Is God really Just?

[jay_a2j]

I admit I'm no expert on Xianity.
But Love is a key, if not THE key tenant or theme of Jesus' teachings.
I see little love (or its offspring, tolerance) in your posts Jay.
Player at least seems to actually live by the teachings of Jesus.
I suspect Jay you're not really a xian.

And I see little thought in your posts. Hmmm you aren't a high school graduate are you?

See whatever you want, she has indirectly put my beliefs down in every one of her posts! (just about) Suggs, are you just kissing up to PLAYER for a date?

[suggs]

She is married, which is always a plus

[PLAYER57832]

I admit I'm no expert on Xianity.
But Love is a key, if not THE key tenant or theme of Jesus' teachings.
I see little love (or its offspring, tolerance) in your posts Jay.
Player at least seems to actually live by the teachings of Jesus.
I suspect Jay you're not really a xian.

And I see little thought in your posts. Hmmm you aren't a high school graduate are you?

Wrong on both counts. Universalists don't generally call themselves Christians (though a few do)

But if you had paid a bit more attention to my posts, you probably could probably discern my church... and you would certainly know that I have more than a high school education.

[jay_a2j]

I admit I'm no expert on Xianity.
But Love is a key, if not THE key tenant or theme of Jesus' teachings.
I see little love (or its offspring, tolerance) in your posts Jay.
Player at least seems to actually live by the teachings of Jesus.
I suspect Jay you're not really a xian.

And I see little thought in your posts. Hmmm you aren't a high school graduate are you?

Wrong on both counts. Universalists don't generally call themselves Christians (though a few do)

But if you had paid a bit more attention to my posts, you probably could probably discern my church... and you would certainly know that I have more than a high school education.

I was talking to Suggs. Its got to be a non-pentecostal church. Methodist maybe? Lutheran? Please don't say Jehovah Witness.

[suggs]

People's Front of Judea?

[PLAYER57832]

I admit I'm no expert on Xianity.
But Love is a key, if not THE key tenant or theme of Jesus' teachings.
I see little love (or its offspring, tolerance) in your posts Jay.
Player at least seems to actually live by the teachings of Jesus.
I suspect Jay you're not really a xian.

And I see little thought in your posts. Hmmm you aren't a high school graduate are you?

Wrong on both counts. Universalists don't generally call themselves Christians (though a few do)

But if you had paid a bit more attention to my posts, you probably could probably discern my church... and you would certainly know that I have more than a high school education.

No I am not a Jehovah's witness. I am Protestant. Denominations don't matter much since we all have open communion together.



I was talking to Suggs. Its got to be a non-pentecostal church. Methodist maybe? Lutheran? Please don't say Jehovah Witness.

I am Protestant. The denomination does not really matter since we now all have open communion.

[jay_a2j]

I admit I'm no expert on Xianity.
But Love is a key, if not THE key tenant or theme of Jesus' teachings.
I see little love (or its offspring, tolerance) in your posts Jay.
Player at least seems to actually live by the teachings of Jesus.
I suspect Jay you're not really a xian.

And I see little thought in your posts. Hmmm you aren't a high school graduate are you?

Wrong on both counts. Universalists don't generally call themselves Christians (though a few do)

But if you had paid a bit more attention to my posts, you probably could probably discern my church... and you would certainly know that I have more than a high school education.

No I am not a Jehovah's witness. I am Protestant. Denominations don't matter much since we all have open communion together.



I was talking to Suggs. Its got to be a non-pentecostal church. Methodist maybe? Lutheran? Please don't say Jehovah Witness.

I take that as you are JW.

[Backglass]

I have said you are wrong... I have not mocked you or belittled you or really done more than say that "I believe what I believe and you are welcome to believe what you believe".

OK. You are wrong. No comedy involved.

You, on the other hand persist in attacking me and criticizing the intelligence of the billions of individuals who all share my faith.

Attacks? What attacks? You have a very thin skin it seems. As for your "billions"....Millions followed Hitler. Did the number of followers make it right?

Understand that distinction and you will be a long way toward effectively communicating, as opposed to simple showmanship.

Understand that I communicate quite effectively. Also understand that my obviously comedic arguments are meant to point out the falicy of yours.

You see, that's the thing. Up until that comment, it was a discussion. Jay, you, I did not agree, but we were discussing. With that comment, you threw out not only any potential for future communication on the subject, but pretty much did away with any understanding that might have existed. In short, you blew the argument for a short laugh ... maybe (psycologically speaking, that is ... ) because you felt threatened, maybe because you were bored ... but you basically erased the entire previous debate by that one remark.

You see that's the thing...I have heard this response many times before and to be truthful...I could care less. Although honestly the usual christian response is "I am now going to ignore all further posts from you"..usually because they are backed into a corner with their faith-based arguments for supernatural creatures and it probably stings. At least you are different, I will admit. You seem like a literate, intelligent person unlike others who post here often and shall remain nameless.

[jay_a2j]

You seem like a literate, intelligent person unlike others who post here often and shall remain nameless.

Way to throw yourself under the bus backglass!

[Backglass]

You seem like a literate, intelligent person unlike others who post here often and shall remain nameless.

Way to throw yourself under the bus backglass!

Oh! I see what you did there...you turned the tables on me! Such a brilliant retort! Touche' Sir!

You must crack em up on Sundays.

[Nataki Yiro]

Whoever thought up this topic is an idiot with obvious intentions...

[Backglass]

Whoever thought up this topic is an idiot with obvious intentions...

QFT.

[kagetora]

Whoever thought up this topic is an idiot with obvious intentions...

The intentions are obvious, the fact that you post this with no support for one side of either arguement is pointless.

[FabledIntegral]

The intentions are to get a semi-interesting debate going towards religion. Just because some people are too fucking lazy to post and always try to find a pessimistic motive for everything (oh the OP just wanted to start shit up, etc.).

I've taken Bible Literature as a class in school, and had many questions raised. I like discussing and debating wherever I go. Merely the people who get annoyed with the debates but come to post anyways are the real instigating morons.

[Nataki Yiro]

I love you FabledIntegral... I just get tired of the atheists trying to prove that they are right when we could careless about atheism.

[joecoolfrog]

I love you FabledIntegral... I just get tired of the atheists trying to prove that they are right when we could careless about atheism.

Oh you care

[Juan_Bottom]

I love you FabledIntegral... I just get tired of the atheists trying to prove that they are right when we could careless about atheism.

Oh you care

If you don't, then you'd go away forever.


Tho answer the original question that this thread is based on, NO. And I wasn't sure myself until now.

God creates everyman. And s/he knows before we are made everything about our future selves. Yet when we reject God, or do bad things with our life, s/he throws us into hell.

How can a 'Just' God blame his/her inferior creations for his/her own mistakes? It's too hypocritical, and no, the parent analogy doesn't really work here.

[joecoolfrog]

Incidently Jay your literal view of Genesis represents a very small minority of Christians, even American ones Care to show me some figures to disprove this or will you save time and just appologise to player now.

[joecoolfrog]

Incidently Jay your literal view of Genesis represents a very small minority of Christians, even American ones Care to show me some figures to disprove this or will you save time and just appologise to player now.

[PLAYER57832]

I take that as you are JW.

Well, I goofed and somehow deleted part of my post, now corrected.


HOWEVER, it is pretty clear that I am not a Jehovah's Witness to anyone with basic familiarity with that church. You continue to show a complete lack of knowledge of other churches.

Why does this matter?

I am not Roman Catholic (and do you even know why I specify "Roman Catholic" as opposed to "catholic"?), but I would never speak of Christianity as a whole without taking their beliefs into account. Further, I know enough to explain, with reason, why I don't follow their beliefs in certain areas (but do in many respects).

Because you don't know our beliefs, you cannot truly know WHY we believe what we do or WHY you disagree ... not really. You only know what you have been taught. And, sorry, but you prove again and again how incorrectly you have been taught.

[FabledIntegral]

I love you FabledIntegral... I just get tired of the atheists trying to prove that they are right when we could careless about atheism.

This thread wasn't even intended to be about atheism if you look at my original post. And if I was trying to "prove" atheism I wouldn't have limited the spectrum to the Christian God only, and I would have backed up scientific facts. However, I made it apparent that in my post I was referring to one specific religion, and one aspect of the religion. The basis of the topic was one had to already assume God was real - not argue whether or not he was, which is completely irrelevant.

The fact is I am not concerned with "is there a God or not," I'm concerned with something I personally perceive to be a flaw in the Christian religion and want to debate whether or not that flaw exists. To debate within Christianity is to already assume that God is real, and debate his intentions. I don't recall ever bringing up science to back anything where science would be irrelevant in the first place - it was jay that started proclaiming "I didn't evolve from an ape!!" which is a common fundamentalist theme (and from what I'm aware, it's chimpanzees, not apes, right? This is going off what I remember... just amusing how fundamentalists bunch everything together to discredit things, just like the peanut butter example earlier).

[PLAYER57832]

it was jay that started proclaiming "I didn't evolve from an ape!!" which is a common fundamentalist theme (and from what I'm aware, it's chimpanzees, not apes, right? This is going off what I remember... just amusing how fundamentalists bunch everything together to discredit things, just like the peanut butter example earlier).

A couple of corrections.

Chimpanzees are apes. Man and the various apes are believed to have evolved from a common ancestor, based on the similarity of our aspects, DNA and the fossil record.

We did not evolve from apes (chimpanzees or other).

To get back to the original question....

It comes down to free will. If you have freedom of choice, you have the choice to choose badly. Christians, however, believe that because God loves us, he gave us the law, the Bible and finally Christ to help show us the way. Christians also generally believe that somehow some way everyone will be given a real chance to hear "the truth" (that is, the Christian truth) and to choose. We believe that God's judgement supercedes human perceptions so that a person we might think is to be saved might not be, but someone we would not think to be saved... be they "scum" or simply of another religion, might very well be saved.

[Juan_Bottom]

A couple of corrections.

Chimpanzees are apes. Man and the various apes are believed to have evolved from a common ancestor, based on the similarity of our aspects, DNA and the fossil record.

We did not evolve from apes (chimpanzees or other).

\
Beat me to it!

It comes down to free will.

But if God made you, and already knows everything that you are going to do, how do you have free will? Wouldn't your will have been made by him/her? Thus, no actual free will? And so your punishment/reward totally unjustified?

[kagetora]

It comes down to free will.

But if God made you, and already knows everything that you are going to do, how do you have free will? Wouldn't your will have been made by him/her? Thus, no actual free will? And so your punishment/reward totally unjustified?

This is exactly what I say to my dad, who is very Christian, and guess what his response is?

"That's a good question."

[jay_a2j]

We did not evolve from apes (chimpanzees or other).

Better get rid of these posters all across the globe!







This, I can agree with:

It comes down to free will. If you have freedom of choice, you have the choice to choose badly. Christians, however, believe that because God loves us, he gave us the law, the Bible and finally Christ to help show us the way. Christians also generally believe that somehow some way everyone will be given a real chance to hear "the truth" (that is, the Christian truth) and to choose. We believe that God's judgement supercedes human perceptions so that a person we might think is to be saved might not be, but someone we would not think to be saved... be they "scum" or simply of another religion, might very well be saved.