Logic dictates that there is a God!

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:27 pm

If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

by **Juan_Bottom** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:24 pm

mpjh wrote:If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

Agnostic?

by **Frigidus** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:26 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
mpjh wrote:If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

Agnostic?

Either way, I concur. I see no reason to worship the Christian God (threats of torture aside) even if it exists.

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:19 pm

More atheist than agnostic, but mostly more concerned with life and justice to give it much more thought.

by **Juan_Bottom** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:26 pm

mpjh wrote:More atheist than agnostic, but mostly more concerned with life and justice to give it much more thought.

You're weird.... "life and justice"

Who are you really, Matlock?

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:29 pm

Now that is a real statement on our culture. Someone that is deeply concerned with life and justice is weird -- go figure. I thought we were founded on the principle right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." You cannot have liberty nor pursue happiness without justice.

by **Juan_Bottom** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:40 pm

mpjh wrote:Now that is a real statement on our culture. Someone that is deeply concerned with life and justice is weird -- go figure. I thought we were founded on the principle right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." You cannot have liberty nor pursue happiness without justice.

No. You're too concerned with "life and justice" in general, to think about weather or not you believe in a god....

That's weird.

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:42 pm

OK, I understand. Well, it is a full life and justice is hard to come by, and because god doesn't have any direct interest why think about her.

by **Gregrios** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:53 pm

mpjh wrote:If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

It would seem as though you have some common generalized assumptions about God. [-X

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:02 pm

If she exist, don't like her. If she doesn't exist, still don't like her.

by **Gregrios** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:22 pm

mpjh wrote:If she exist, don't like her. If she doesn't exist, still don't like her.

I've explained so many times now as to why God doesn't intervene with every tragedy in the world. Enough times to know better than posting it in a public forum. I will say this though, you should take a few minutes and think as to why God may not intervene with everyday tragedies. You might be surprized to what your mind can accomplish when put to use.

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:52 pm

You should take a few moments and realize how arrogant and preachy you sound. If you are trying to convince me of anything, it isn't having any impact. Why don't you just respect my view and leave it at that?

by **jay_a2j** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:22 pm

mpjh wrote:You should take a few moments and realize how arrogant and preachy you sound. If you are trying to convince me of anything, it isn't having any impact. Why don't you just respect my view and leave it at that?

I don't get it. If you don't want to talk about it, don't enter the thread! You have the right to your own opinion, as wrong as it may be.

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:30 pm

The title implies that "logic dictates" something about god. I simply gave my logical conclusion that any god that would make a world like this is an empty suit. If you have a logical response to that, well, let's hear it, but don't preach to me just follow the rules of logic.

by **Gregrios** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:43 pm

mpjh wrote:You should take a few moments and realize how arrogant and preachy you sound.

No need to as I'm fully aware of it. 8-)

mpjh wrote:Why don't you just respect my view and leave it at that?

I always accept other views but respect is another topic all together.

by **jay_a2j** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:53 pm

mpjh wrote:The title implies that "logic dictates" something about god. I simply gave my logical conclusion that any god that would make a world like this is an empty suit. If you have a logical response to that, well, let's hear it, but don't preach to me just follow the rules of logic.

God has given us free will. He is allowing us to do as we please at the moment. He will put a stop to it and show us that man can never self-govern, and that His rule is perfect. But He is patient and will intervene before man destroys himself totally.

by **mpjh** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:02 pm

OK, what is your evidence that this is true?

by **comic boy** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:06 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
mpjh wrote:The title implies that "logic dictates" something about god. I simply gave my logical conclusion that any god that would make a world like this is an empty suit. If you have a logical response to that, well, let's hear it, but don't preach to me just follow the rules of logic.

God has given us free will. He is allowing us to do as we please at the moment. He will put a stop to it and show us that man can never self-govern, and that His rule is perfect. But He is patient and will intervene before man destroys himself totally.

Comic translation

The bible says nothing about ' free will ' but we find it a convenient phrase to stonewall awkward questions so we pretend that we know what God's master plan is ( even though we have no proof whatsoever )

by **silvanricky** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:06 pm

jay_a2j wrote:God has given us free will. He is allowing us to do as we please at the moment. He will put a stop to it and show us that man can never self-govern, and that His rule is perfect. But He is patient and will intervene before man destroys himself totally.

Alright then that totally refutes the title of this thread. Logic does not dictate there is a God. It's logic that would keep people from accepting the idea of God's existence. Free will means just that, it's got nothing to do with logic. Now before you start preaching at me just hear me out. I'm not saying that people who believe in God are illogical. People are made up of emotions and intellectual thought. It's a combination of both and should be balanced. By just labeling this thread "logic dictates there is a God" then people who have an axe to grind against the concept of God are just going to use their own logic to try and argue against you. In their minds they are using logic to say there isn't a God when in reality they are basing what they think is logic on their will.

People base their world view on a variety of factors, Jay. To single out logic is almost as insulting as when atheists here try to say that they will only listen to science. Science can't account for everything and neither can logic all by itself.

by **jonesthecurl** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:20 pm

Gregrios wrote:
mpjh wrote:If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

It would seem as though you have some common generalized assumptions about God.

To quote a friend of yours: Pot, meet kettle.

by **Iliad** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:30 pm

mpjh wrote:OK, what is your evidence that this is true?

The evidence for god is the bible
The evidence for bible is god

When one side bases itself on a 2000 year old book and another on science I'm surprised the debate is still going

by **motionstop** on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:44 pm

quick summary:

perhaps this participant is nothing more than a freshman college student who just entered into his/her first philosophy course. logic dictates this is an entirely unacademic conclusion based upon unacademic findings. that evolution was even mentioned as poorly as it was indicates a lack of mental cohesion.

the 'logic' is inconclusive and leaves enormous gaps available for refute.
to name a few:

-what is a god? that in and of itself opens up an entirely enormous bag of dirty laundry.
-if and only if/gods do exist, what sort of qualities would they/it have? would it have responsibilities? is it purely a force, such as gravity, carrying no weight to morality and no purpose other than to push down.
-if there is a god, why couldn't there be more gods?
-how limited is our definition of life?
-how has 'science' determined that evolution is a farce? (which, mind you, has not been determined)
-how limited is this person's definition of 'science'?
-is it determined by those 'scientists' who put personal beliefs before fact? (i.e. intelligent design)

these are just basic questions brought upon by what limited definitions and conclusions this person has transcribed.
the argument is entirely refutable by a series of logical questions.
to state 'god exists' is one thing. that is refutable. to state ' logic dictates god's existence' is a purely under-educated statement.

evolution aside. religion aside. science aside. the logic is entirely flawed. proving the existence of god is not as simple as geometric proofs.

regards,
motionstop

by **mpjh** on Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:18 am

Iliad wrote:
mpjh wrote:OK, what is your evidence that this is true?

The evidence for god is the bible
The evidence for bible is god

When one side bases itself on a 2000 year old book and another on science I'm surprised the debate is still going

I am not debating whether science is more or less legitimate than religion. However this thread claims a "logical" basis for a "belief" in god. I just want the logical evidence.