ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[Night Strike]

Juan, just because Forbes posted the article doesn't mean my points are invalid. Plus, they spend time blaming the entire 2009 budget year on Bush, even though Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress and Obama was a member of Congress. (Although Obama probably only voted "present" instead of taking an actual vote on the spending.)

And why doesn't your jobs chart include Obama? Every month we've documented how poorly the economy is doing under him in both its complete anemia in adding new jobs and the number of people completely leaving the work force. If we had the same number of people in the workforce as when Obama took office, the unemployment rate would be over 11%. How is that a successful job environment and economy?

[saxitoxin]

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

This meme was debunked by the Associated Press and the Washington Post several months ago, the latter of which awarded "3 of 4 Pinnochios" to it (indicating "Significant factual errors and obvious contradictions.").

In other words, Player may have designed the pretty chart with the brightly colored shapes.

[Phatscotty]

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

This meme was debunked by the Associated Press and the Washington Post several months ago, the latter of which awarded "3 of 4 Pinnochios" to it (indicating "Significant factual errors and obvious contradictions.").

In other words, Player may have designed the pretty chart with the brightly colored shapes.

Yup, I debunked this on my buddy's brothers wall the other day. That article (rightly so) points out that the first 14-16 months of Obama's term was out of Obama's control (thus Bush's fault). It also rightly points out how Congress controls the power to spend money.

What the article ignores though, and this is of major fucking importance, is that the Democrat-controlled Congress of 2007 takes a lot of blame for the crash of 2008. Yup, you guessed it. The economy tanked about 20 months after the Democrats took Congress in early 2007.

[saxitoxin]

Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?

This meme was debunked by the Associated Press and the Washington Post several months ago, the latter of which awarded "3 of 4 Pinnochios" to it (indicating "Significant factual errors and obvious contradictions.").

In other words, Player may have designed the pretty chart with the brightly colored shapes.

Yup, I debunked this on my buddy's brothers wall the other day.

So, in other words, all the major players have debunked it: Associated Press, Washington Post, PhatScotty.

[Phatscotty]

BOOM!

[Juan_Bottom]

Juan, just because Forbes posted the article doesn't mean my points are invalid. Plus, they spend time blaming the entire 2009 budget year on Bush, even though Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress and Obama was a member of Congress. (Although Obama probably only voted "present" instead of taking an actual vote on the spending.)

No Rick didn't.

This meme was debunked by the Associated Press and the Washington Post several months ago, the latter of which awarded "3 of 4 Pinnochios" to it (indicating "Significant factual errors and obvious contradictions.").

In other words, Player may have designed the pretty chart with the brightly colored shapes.

The chart didn't come from the article.

The article was an opinion piece, and you should check out the comments. Rick Unger defends his article against everybody, including the associated press. Peter Ferrera and Doug Bandow wrote opposing opinion articles for Forbes, and they kinda got into a wordy scuffle with Rick Unger. The later probably won the argument when he linked a story about Doug Bandow taking Bribes.
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/200 ... s-for-sale

This meme was debunked by the Associated Press and the Washington Post several months ago, the latter of which awarded "3 of 4 Pinnochios" to it (indicating "Significant factual errors and obvious contradictions.").

But upheld by Politifact!!!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -lowest-s/

So, using raw dollars, Obama did oversee the lowest annual increases in spending of any president in 60 years.

[Juan_Bottom]

BOOM!

Caught it.

[BigBallinStalin]

Spending at time 0 = 100.

President 1 (4-year term): 5% increase (105)
President 2 (8-year term) : 10% increase (115.5)
President 3 (4-year term): 2% increase (117.8 )

President 3 claims the lowest increase in spending, and his crowd of supporters roar fiercely at such a feat.

However, spending is still increasing, and previous spending from earlier presidents is not reduced. By neglecting to reduce previous spending, does a president permit such increases in spending?


An analogy: a ship is sinking. Captain 1 and captain 2 slowly increase the rate at which the ship takes in water. Captain 3 allows for the previous intake of water, but adds water in a slightly less rate. Nevertheless, the crowd cheers because Captain 3 let in water at a slower rate, which is great and all, but the ship is still sinking.

[BigBallinStalin]

Furthermore, what about Obama's role as president in 2008? The 2009 - 2013 category neglects this. So, PolitiFact added in spending under Obama's presidency in 2008, and here are the results:

show

Okay, so at least we're a bit more accurate, but nevertheless Romney's claim is false.


Also, what accounts for the reduced spending in 2009-2013? Can all credit be attributed to Obama? No, because the Republican-dominated Congress kept Obama's spending in check. So, that's a fact which Obama fans should at least acknowledge.

[GreecePwns]

No. The President has complete control over the federal government's spending, BBS. Just like he has complete and total control over the economy.

[BigBallinStalin]

No. The President has complete control over the federal government's spending, BBS. Just like he has complete and total control over the economy.

I admit defeat. Cue the propaganda posting battle between JB and PS.

[Phatscotty]

Just another example of Intolerance from the left. One example of many. If someone from the Tea Party did this, it would be all over the news. But this violent attacker is on the left, so nobody will hear about it.

[PLAYER57832]

Just another example of Intolerance from the left. One example of many. If someone from the Tea Party did this, it would be all over the news. But this violent attacker is on the left, so nobody will hear about it.

I see, so one jerk is obviously representative of the whole.. and you have admitted this every time we pointed to, not individuals, but groups at rallies and such?

[Night Strike]

How the looming Obamacare taxes are hurting the economy now and in the future:

An Indiana-based medical equipment manufacturer says it's scrapping plans to open five new plants in the coming years because of a looming tax tied to President Obama's health care overhaul law.

Cook Medical claims the tax on medical devices, set to take effect next year, will cost the company roughly $20 million a year, cutting into money that would otherwise go toward expanding into new facilities over the next five years.

"This is the equivalent of about a plant a year that we're not going to be able to build," a company spokesman told FoxNews.com.

He said the original plan was to build factories in "hard-pressed" Midwestern communities, each employing up to 300 people. But those factories cost roughly the same amount as the projected cost of the new tax.

"In reality, we're not looking at the U.S. to build factories anymore as long as this tax is in place. We can't, to be competitive," he said.

Company executive Pete Yonkman first revealed the scuttled plans in an interview with the Indianapolis Business Journal. The company later confirmed the decision to FoxNews.com.

The Affordable Care Act imposed a 2.3 percent tax on medical devices beginning in 2013. It is projected raise nearly $30 billion over the next decade.

But the Cook Medical spokesman said the impact is greater than just a 2.3 percent uptick in taxes. He said the impact on actual earnings is another 15 percent, and he projected the company's total tax burden next year will rise to over 50 percent.

Republicans and medical device makers have been railing against the tax all along, with the GOP-controlled House approving a bill last month to repeal it. The Senate, though, hasn't taken it up.

A recent study by the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, though, said the complaints by the industry are exaggerated.

"The tax will not cause manufacturers to shift production overseas. The tax applies equally to imported and domestically produced devices, and devices produced in the United States for export are tax-exempt," the study said. It also said repealing the tax would "undercut health reform" by requiring Congress to offset the repeal by potentially killing spending provisions in the law and by potentially encouraging similar repeals.

Cook Medical is part of a family of companies that produce medical devices for surgery, obstetrics, gynecology and other fields.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/27/indiana-company-scraps-plans-for-expansion-over-obamacare-device-tax/#ixzz21rkchysJ

[Phatscotty]

Just another example of Intolerance from the left. One example of many. If someone from the Tea Party did this, it would be all over the news. But this violent attacker is on the left, so nobody will hear about it.

I see, so one jerk is obviously representative of the whole.. and you have admitted this every time we pointed to, not individuals, but groups at rallies and such?

When playing by the lefts rules, demonstrated clearly and repeatedly over the last few years directed at the Tea Party..... then ABSOLUTELY! Hell, there were ZERO examples of the Tea Party being violent, but that sure didn't stop the left from labeling us violent. Were you equally concerned about that?

However, if you read the post, it says this is ONE example. So you are gonna have to do a better job misrepresenting

[PLAYER57832]

Just another example of Intolerance from the left. One example of many. If someone from the Tea Party did this, it would be all over the news. But this violent attacker is on the left, so nobody will hear about it.

I see, so one jerk is obviously representative of the whole.. and you have admitted this every time we pointed to, not individuals, but groups at rallies and such?

When playing by the lefts rules, demonstrated clearly and repeatedly over the last few years directed at the Tea Party..... then ABSOLUTELY! Hell, there were ZERO examples of the Tea Party being violent, but that sure didn't stop the left from labeling us violent. Were you equally concerned about that?

However, if you read the post, it says this is ONE example. So you are gonna have to do a better job misrepresenting

Nope, my comment was referring specifically to you... and how you seem to think one idiot says anything at all important.


Oh, yeah... did you catch the fact that your idea of the "government messing everything up" is just plain wrong when it comes to healthcare?
Turns out that previous data compared very sick individuals to well individuals, so of course those getting medicaid fared poorer.

Gotta go.. will bring the link up later, if no one else does first.

[Phatscotty]

Just another example of Intolerance from the left. One example of many. If someone from the Tea Party did this, it would be all over the news. But this violent attacker is on the left, so nobody will hear about it.

I see, so one jerk is obviously representative of the whole.. and you have admitted this every time we pointed to, not individuals, but groups at rallies and such?

When playing by the lefts rules, demonstrated clearly and repeatedly over the last few years directed at the Tea Party..... then ABSOLUTELY! Hell, there were ZERO examples of the Tea Party being violent, but that sure didn't stop the left from labeling us violent. Were you equally concerned about that?

However, if you read the post, it says this is ONE example. So you are gonna have to do a better job misrepresenting

Nope, my comment was referring specifically to you... and how you seem to think one idiot says anything at all important.

Are you sure the focus was on what the violent anti-American "said".....or what the violent anti-American "did"?

are you trolling me?

[PLAYER57832]

Are you sure the focus was on what the violent anti-American "said".....or what the violent anti-American "did"?

The problem is you seem to think one idiot is significant, just becuase the person is on the left, not what the person did or said.

are you trolling me?

If you consider bombarding you with truth to be trolling, then yeah

"Medicaid is a failed program," Perry told Fox News. "To expand this program is not unlike adding a thousand people to the Titanic."

But a study just published online by the New England Journal of Medicine adds to a growing body of evidence that Medicaid, in fact, does improve the health of those it covers.

The study, whose Harvard-affiliated authors include one currently advising the Obama administration and one who worked for President George W. Bush, compared three states (New York, Maine, and Arizona) that expanded Medicaid coverage to childless, non-disabled adults in recent years to three neighboring states that did not. Those adults will be the primary beneficiaries of the expansion envisioned under the Affordable Care Act.

It found that Medicaid expansions were associated with "a significant reduction in adjusted all-cause mortality," as well as decreased rates of care being delayed due to cost, and more people reporting themselves to be in "excellent" or "very good" health.

Yet another of your lauded "facts" about horrible government disproven.....

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/07 ... lts-health

[Juan_Bottom]

Romney once again endorses Universal Healthcare?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... own-costs/
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/ ... h-care.php


I'm starting to get a picture.

1) The rest of the world loves Obama.
2) The Conservative party is chock full of idiots or Mitt Romney was only nominated to make Obama look even better.

Reformed in 1995 on the basis of a European model, Israelis are forced to buy insurance from one of several competing not-for-profit plans, which are heavily regulated by the government, according to the journal Health Affairs. The state requires them to cover everyone regardless of health status, and establishes a broad benefits package insurance policies must provide, updated annually by a committee of appointed experts. The government pays the full cost of these policies, mostly through higher taxes. The state also caps the level of annual revenue hospitals can earn from an insurance plan. Care is largely delivered through government-owned facilities; there are private providers, but they tend to charge more.

So how’s the socialized approach working out?

Quite well. Israel covers all residents and spends 8 percent of its national product on health care; the U.S. currently spends 17.5 percent and has many uninsured. Nor are Israelis resigned to low quality care or long waits that some associate with government-run systems: according to the Jewish Daily Forward, “going by many indexes of health outcomes, the result in terms of quality of care [in Israel] is often better — and definitely cheaper than in the U.S.”

A 2010 study in Health Affairs describes “strong government influence” over its system has been the catalyst for Israel’s low health spending growth since the 1995 reforms.

[GreecePwns]

Let's see where Phatscotty and Night Strike respond to Mitt Romney's resounding endorsement of Israel's universal healthcare system, which enumerates many rights to its citizens and dictates exactly which services HMOs must provide at a minimum. Dictating what product a company must sell? That's something I know Night Strike has decried over and over again.

Will we finally hear the absolute truth from them: that Mitt Romney is a Marxist?

We will wait and see.

[Juan_Bottom]

Dude we are just owning this thread.

[Phatscotty]

Dude we are just owning this thread.

scoreboard...dude

[Phatscotty]

Let's see where Phatscotty and Night Strike respond to Mitt Romney's resounding endorsement of Israel's universal healthcare system, which enumerates many rights to its citizens and dictates exactly which services HMOs must provide at a minimum. Dictating what product a company must sell? That's something I know Night Strike has decried over and over again.

Will we finally hear the absolute truth from them: that Mitt Romney is a Marxist?

We will wait and see.

As for me, what I have decried over and over again, is I don't care how other countries do it. Many times I have told a foreigner who's country has universal or single payer or whatever "good for you. I am glad you are happy" I have even went further, many times, and staying true to my overall position on state rights, that if a state wants Obamacare, and it is democratically obtained, great, grand, wonderful. I support that. Have you been listening?

Practice our freedom all over your face

[GreecePwns]

So what is you're reaction to Romney's clear endorsement of Israels healthcare system? Do you view him in a different light? Is he not a marxist for endorsing a plan that goes even further than obamacare?

[Juan_Bottom]

and staying true to my overall position on state rights,

As for me, what I have decried over and over again, is I don't care how other countries do it.

"Nothing will ever change my mind ever, no matter what."