One of many problems with Evolution

[chang50]

4.Immaculate conception.


4."Immaculate conception": Can mankind not artificially inseminate, can mankind not gene splice, can mankind not clone life, as mankind advances in technology, this miracle requires less faith. But in the end, the Bible requires faith, though someone like me searches the depths of science so I don't have to rely on faith as much as someone that believes in God, yet knows nothing of the sciences, yet I have never physically seen God, though I have heard an inaudible voice at rare times in my life that has protected me from harm, once I was speeding in Colorado and heard a voice saying to slow down there was a cop around the bend, I slowed and saw a cop with radar gun in hand. But the Bible requires a measure of faith to account for the miracles in the Bible.


UC your response above seems to indicate you think the 'Immaculate conception',refers to the virgin birth of Jesus.Surely any half-educated student of Christianity would know it refers to the birth of Mary his mother?I am stunned you need an atheist to point this out to you..

[universalchiro]

4.Immaculate conception.


4."Immaculate conception": Can mankind not artificially inseminate, can mankind not gene splice, can mankind not clone life, as mankind advances in technology, this miracle requires less faith. But in the end, the Bible requires faith, though someone like me searches the depths of science so I don't have to rely on faith as much as someone that believes in God, yet knows nothing of the sciences, yet I have never physically seen God, though I have heard an inaudible voice at rare times in my life that has protected me from harm, once I was speeding in Colorado and heard a voice saying to slow down there was a cop around the bend, I slowed and saw a cop with radar gun in hand. But the Bible requires a measure of faith to account for the miracles in the Bible.


UC your response above seems to indicate you think the 'Immaculate conception',refers to the virgin birth of Jesus.Surely any half-educated student of Christianity would know it refers to the birth of Mary his mother?I am stunned you need an atheist to point this out to you..

Hi Chang, welcome back to the discussion. Two things with your post:
1) how did you deduce from my words that I referrenced Jesus? No where in that post did I mention Jesus, so support how you got Jesus out of my above post.
2) support your claim that immaculate conception refers to Mary? Use scripture contained in the Bible.

QFT: I interpret the immaculate conception only for Jesus' birth, I read no scripture of such miracles for Mary's mother conceiving Mary.

[chang50]

4.Immaculate conception.


4."Immaculate conception": Can mankind not artificially inseminate, can mankind not gene splice, can mankind not clone life, as mankind advances in technology, this miracle requires less faith. But in the end, the Bible requires faith, though someone like me searches the depths of science so I don't have to rely on faith as much as someone that believes in God, yet knows nothing of the sciences, yet I have never physically seen God, though I have heard an inaudible voice at rare times in my life that has protected me from harm, once I was speeding in Colorado and heard a voice saying to slow down there was a cop around the bend, I slowed and saw a cop with radar gun in hand. But the Bible requires a measure of faith to account for the miracles in the Bible.


UC your response above seems to indicate you think the 'Immaculate conception',refers to the virgin birth of Jesus.Surely any half-educated student of Christianity would know it refers to the birth of Mary his mother?I am stunned you need an atheist to point this out to you..

Hi Chang, welcome back to the discussion. Two things with your post:
1) how did you deduce from my words that I referrenced Jesus? No where in that post did I mention Jesus, so support how you got Jesus out of my above post.
2) support your claim that immaculate conception refers to Mary? Use scripture contained in the Bible.

QFT: I interpret the immaculate conception only for Jesus' birth, I read no scripture of such miracles for Mary's mother conceiving Mary.

So was my deduction correct?Most people would have reached the same conclusion from your earlier post..and you seem to admit as much yourself in your last comment..
I freely admit to not being a biblical scholar so I'm personally unable to provide chapter and verse but a quick internet search reveals that the belief that the immaculate conception refers to Jesus is a common misconception.Not because Mary was the result of a virgin birth but because she had to be born without sin in order to be the mother of Christ.

[universalchiro]

@Chang, I gave no indication in my post who was immaculately concepted, you surmized without evidence, that's called a leap of faith. Though you guessed correct, be more diligent to deduce based on observable evidence rather than a guess.
As far as Mary, only the Catholic Church and some Muslims worship Mary.
The protestors say Mary is a sinner forgiven of her sin just like every human. Mary gave birth to other children so she doesn't remain a virgin and to call Mary's birth a virgin birth has zero verses in the Bible. Mary is saved but just a Christian, not someone to pray to not worship. In fact Timothy says we have only one mediator between God and man, Jesus and no other name should we pray to or through to the Father. One said to Jesus, blessed is the womb and breast you came from, but Jesus corrected them and said on the contrary blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it (Luke 11:28). Mary may be the queen of heaven to many, but Jeremiah 44:24-27 says to believe such is abominable (not yeti- (that's for Andy)Tibet).
I reject all Mary, queen of heaven, Venus, Ishtar, Semiarus, Europa, fertility goddess, etc. Worship. I strictly adhere to Bible alone. Solo Scriptura.

[AndyDufresne]

is abominable (not yeti- (that's for Andy)Tibet).
I reject all Mary, queen of heaven, Venus, Ishtar, Semiarus, Europa, fertility goddess, etc. Worship. I strictly adhere to Bible alone. Solo Scriptura.

--Andy

[chang50]

@Chang, I gave no indication in my post who was immaculately concepted, you surmized without evidence, that's called a leap of faith. Though you guessed correct, be more diligent to deduce based on observable evidence rather than a guess.
As far as Mary, only the Catholic Church and some Muslims worship Mary.
The protestors say Mary is a sinner forgiven of her sin just like every human. Mary gave birth to other children so she doesn't remain a virgin and to call Mary's birth a virgin birth has zero verses in the Bible. Mary is saved but just a Christian, not someone to pray to not worship. In fact Timothy says we have only one mediator between God and man, Jesus and no other name should we pray to or through to the Father. One said to Jesus, blessed is the womb and breast you came from, but Jesus corrected them and said on the contrary blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it (Luke 11:28). Mary may be the queen of heaven to many, but Jeremiah 44:24-27 says to believe such is abominable (not yeti- (that's for Andy)Tibet).
I reject all Mary, queen of heaven, Venus, Ishtar, Semiarus, Europa, fertility goddess, etc. Worship. I strictly adhere to Bible alone. Solo Scriptura.

Nobody as far as I know thinks Mary was the product of a virgin birth,only that she was conceived immaculately,that is without sin.You are not the first person to confuse what are clearly two different births equating immaculate and virgin, and it was very obvious to me that you had.If I had deduced wrongly I would have had zero problem admitting it...

[Gweeedo]

Enjoy putting your faith in a theory backed by questionable evidence.

YES! That is exactly the point! You can question the evidence for evolution. That is what makes it a scientific theory. I love that about it.

No one is allowed to question the evidence for the existence of God. Enjoy putting your faith in a theory backed by no evidence at all.

Yes "Faith"; could be said that faith brings about the existence of God.
Questioning the ''evidence'' of God, with faith equals God.
Questioning evidence of evolution equals questionable evidence, put faith in the mix what do you get?
Faith comes in spirit, with out the spirit you have nothing.
Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

[Metsfanmax]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

[chang50]

Enjoy putting your faith in a theory backed by questionable evidence.

YES! That is exactly the point! You can question the evidence for evolution. That is what makes it a scientific theory. I love that about it.

No one is allowed to question the evidence for the existence of God. Enjoy putting your faith in a theory backed by no evidence at all.

Yes "Faith"; could be said that faith brings about the existence of God.
Questioning the ''evidence'' of God, with faith equals God.
Questioning evidence of evolution equals questionable evidence, put faith in the mix what do you get?
Faith comes in spirit, with out the spirit you have nothing.
Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Trillions?I've told you trillions of times not to exaggerate..

[shickingbrits]

Chang50, you should have held Metsfanmax as a child.

[chang50]

Chang50, you should have held Metsfanmax as a child.

Ok..I can believe he was a delightful child : ).

[Gweeedo]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

As history it is anachronistic and occasionally unreliable; as narrative and commentary it is forceful and beautifully written.

I was not making reference of the human race on earth but rather the (entire) human race believing in a spiritual world along with a higher power.
God (gods) is, has always been prevalent in human life...thus Far.
how many here (non believers), has ever cried out or prayed too God

[BigBallinStalin]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

As history it is anachronistic and occasionally unreliable; as narrative and commentary it is forceful and beautifully written.

I was not making reference of the human race on earth but rather the (entire) human race believing in a spiritual world along with a higher power.
God (gods) is, has always been prevalent in human life...thus Far.
how many here (non believers), has ever cried out or prayed too God

Does asking Thor to help me smite my enemies count as praying to God?

[AndyDufresne]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

As history it is anachronistic and occasionally unreliable; as narrative and commentary it is forceful and beautifully written.

I was not making reference of the human race on earth but rather the (entire) human race believing in a spiritual world along with a higher power.
God (gods) is, has always been prevalent in human life...thus Far.
how many here (non believers), has ever cried out or prayed too God

Does asking Thor to help me smite my enemies count as praying to God?

That depends. Do you use the highfive / folded hands emoji when doing so?




--Andy

[Gweeedo]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

As history it is anachronistic and occasionally unreliable; as narrative and commentary it is forceful and beautifully written.

I was not making reference of the human race on earth but rather the (entire) human race believing in a spiritual world along with a higher power.
God (gods) is, has always been prevalent in human life...thus Far.
how many here (non believers), has ever cried out or prayed too God

Does asking Thor to help me smite my enemies count as praying to God?

No, I think he was a demigod.
No matter the god.
What I am trying to get at is the belief of a spiritual world has existed from the beginning of time.
The physical world is the only thing we know or understand. Little knowledge of the spirit world exists anymore.
For those who talk God (spiritual realm), nobody will understand what they are talking about.
Much simpler for you to mock it.

When Jesus was walking the hood with his bro''s, do you think his Disciples ever understood what he was saying...they never could figure out what he was talking about...they ran with it anyway.
Knowing he was from God (spirit).
Thor did not make the cut.

[universalchiro]

@Chang, I retract my statement, you are correct in all that you wrote regarding immaculate conception. I mixed that up with Jesus' virgin birth and forgot about Catholic tradition believing Mary never sinned, and remained a virgin. My bad.
So then your deduction was spot on, good work sir.

[chang50]

@Chang, I retract my statement, you are correct in all that you wrote regarding immaculate conception. I mixed that up with Jesus' virgin birth and forgot about Catholic tradition believing Mary never sinned, and remained a virgin. My bad.
So then your deduction was spot on, good work sir.

Thank you,sir.

[GoranZ]

What I am trying to get at is the belief of a spiritual world has existed from the beginning of time.

Speculation... There is no evidence supporting your claims.

[chang50]

What I am trying to get at is the belief of a spiritual world has existed from the beginning of time.

Speculation... There is no evidence supporting your claims.

Were there any beings at the beginning of time to believe anything?

[Gweeedo]

What I am trying to get at is the belief of a spiritual world has existed from the beginning of time.

Speculation... There is no evidence supporting your claims.

Were there any beings at the beginning of time to believe anything?

Yes, I guess it would be those beings that belong in eternity.

@GoranZ; No evidence to whom?
If you enter spirit you will find.
You are not going to experience spirit if you live solely by the Flesh.
There are many ''unexplained'' events that take place every day that are considered spiritual.
Spirit lasts for eternity, God will separate himself and all creation from those who do not live in Spirit.

[Metsfanmax]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

As history it is anachronistic and occasionally unreliable; as narrative and commentary it is forceful and beautifully written.

So is Oedipus Rex but I don't see you going aroud promoting patricide and having sex with your mom.

God (gods) is, has always been prevalent in human life...thus Far.

So has malaria but I'm not too keen on keeping that one either.

[GoranZ]

What I am trying to get at is the belief of a spiritual world has existed from the beginning of time.

Speculation... There is no evidence supporting your claims.

Were there any beings at the beginning of time to believe anything?

Yes, I guess it would be those beings that belong in eternity.

@GoranZ; No evidence to whom?

To those that are interested about facts.

If you enter spirit you will find.
You are not going to experience spirit if you live solely by the Flesh.
There are many ''unexplained'' events that take place every day that are considered spiritual.
Spirit lasts for eternity, God will separate himself and all creation from those who do not live in Spirit.

Stories usually start with "From the beginning of time... bla bla bla". So what you are saying is a story, not many different then stories for small kids(With flying dragons and all sort of monsters).
Unfortunately I'm afraid that your stories are for some other thread and not for this thread.
So put something with facts or shut up.

[BigBallinStalin]

Going along with the History (human race) of the world, is not a bad option.
God (gods) is backed by the (documented) history of the human race.

People (trillions) Believing, knowing that there is a higher power...a spiritual Realm.

Yeah, and for most of recorded human history people thought the Earth is the center of the universe and that phlegm is one of the four bodily fluids. Why should this particular anachronistic belief be heralded over any of the others?

As history it is anachronistic and occasionally unreliable; as narrative and commentary it is forceful and beautifully written.

I was not making reference of the human race on earth but rather the (entire) human race believing in a spiritual world along with a higher power.
God (gods) is, has always been prevalent in human life...thus Far.
how many here (non believers), has ever cried out or prayed too God

Does asking Thor to help me smite my enemies count as praying to God?

No, I think he was a demigod.
No matter the god.
What I am trying to get at is the belief of a spiritual world has existed from the beginning of time.
The physical world is the only thing we know or understand. Little knowledge of the spirit world exists anymore.
For those who talk God (spiritual realm), nobody will understand what they are talking about.
Much simpler for you to mock it.

When Jesus was walking the hood with his bro''s, do you think his Disciples ever understood what he was saying...they never could figure out what he was talking about...they ran with it anyway.
Knowing he was from God (spirit).
Thor did not make the cut.

I'm reporting to this Thor. You're gonna have a lot of questions to answer, or maybe not. It depends on Thor's mood.

[tzor]

I'm reporting to this Thor. You're gonna have a lot of questions to answer, or maybe not. It depends on Thor's mood.

OH now we are in trouble. Thor always puts the hammer down when he gets complaints. He's worse than a Mod.

Why he once threw the Ban Hammer at his half brother.

[PLAYER57832]

Evolution= theory and conjecture.

Doesn't seem you actually know what a theory is. See, its an idea, yes... but an idea based on EVIDENCE.
You cannot just say "I disagree" and claim all evidence is a lie. You have to address the honest evidence that exists... and it absolutely does.

Worship the Creator= Life.

Yes

Reason 'why' the Jews are hated the world over (from the beginning...every nation has despised the Jews); 'WHY"-Because God has chosen the Jews (Gods Chosen people).

Not true, though Jews have been hated in many places, they certainly were not hated always, everywhere. In fact, the time of Christ saw a time of great acceptance of Judaism.

The world hates God.

God created the world. Some people certainly hate God, but most people are seeking God in one way or another, though many do not find what they seek..... and often don't understand that it is God they seek.

Don't you just cringe when you hear the name Jesus..why?

Of course not. Christ is my Lord

That is what this world is all about; hating God or anything that has to do with God...it is in our nature too hate God and the things of God.

You have a sad view of earth and humanity. God made us to love him. THAT is in our nature, though many do reject him or his precepts.

Accusing others, excluding evidence and not seeking truth... those are things God hates, as he does people who try to put themselves over others by proclaiming laws and rules outside those he set forth. Those proclaiming that belief in the Earth is paramount to belief in God and Christ should ask why it is that Christ never even mentioned this matter... and yes, it was a matter of academic dispute among the learned Jews back in his day.

1) Doesn't seem you actually know what a theory is. See, its an idea, using ''conjecture'' yes... but an idea based on EVIDENCE.
You cannot just say "I disagree" and claim all evidence is a lie. You have to address the honest evidence as it exist with ''conjecture" ... and it absolutely does.

Yes, that is pretty much what I said. Evolution matches the evidence presented. No other theory available does.

2)I think we all know how the world feels (felt) about the Jews in the past.
When you have a ship full of Jews escaping Nazi Germany, stopping at every port along the Atlantic...only to be turned away (America included) and sent back to the death camps!

Yeah... except I was talking about the 3000 years prior. There is a lot more to Judaism than what happened under the Nazis.

3)The people who find God are no longer (or at least they should not be) of this world.
I will say it again; the world hates (is against) God.

You are wrong. But, hatred is often mistaken for faith.

4)God did not make us to love him? We have a choice. He created us to worship him...he supplies the love that we receive to love him.
Even Christians cringe when they see a fellow preaching on the side of the road or having some bible thumping freak approach them yelling Jesus, JESUS!
You hear somebody talking (saying the name) Jesus...you got to wonder who is this freak..will you approach him?

Yeah, well, That might be because there is a difference between truly preaching and simply shouting words someone thinks will make him/her appear Godly. Proclaiming the name of Christ doesn't make you a Christian. Satan did that, crazy people certainly can. Christ taught us to speak to those who will listen, no just shout in the wind.

I was told that I should not bring up God at the dinner table ( when we have guests).
Why? I was told that if I do, it will most likely result in a argument.
Maybe they were right. I believe it is not so much the fact of an ensuing argument but rather, that is what the world would have you believe...in an attempt to eliminate God from ever coming up at the dinner table (or a simple gathering of minds).

Then again, if you took the time to LISTEN first, you might find a more receptive audience. Communicating means FIRST understanding to whom you speak. You cannot do that when the only words you hear are your own.