Disney is for the sexists/racist, Dreamworks is for children

[stahrgazer]

Good thing Aladdin was an American movie and not an Arabian one!

Yeah, but the story was a French translation of a middle eastern folktale.

Aladdin (Arabic: علاء الدين, ʻAlāʼ ad-Dīn; literally meaning in English; "nobility of the faith") is one of the tales in The Book of One Thousand and One Nights (Arabian Nights), and one of the most famous, although it was actually added to the collection by Antoine Galland (see sources and setting).[2]

Antoine Galland (April 4, 1646 – February 17, 1715) was a French orientalist and archaeologist, most famous as the first European translator of The Thousand and One Nights (also known as The Arabian Nights in English). His version of the tales appeared in twelve volumes between 1704 and 1717 and exerted a huge influence on subsequent European literature and attitudes to the Islamic world.

[The Bison King]

Only skimmed thread, but regardless of what Walt was or wasn't, Disney, as a maker of cartoons, is just pretty bad at what they do.

Nick/CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Disney

So you're like what? 8 or 9? or do you just have no appreciation for film history?

[InsomniaRed]

Yeah it's kind of ridiculous to say Disney is racist/sexist for things they produced. I mean, hell, if the Old Testament allows polygamy, slaves and racism...should we be telling people who believe in God and follow the bible that they are all sexist and racist too?

[InsomniaRed]

Good thing Aladdin was an American movie and not an Arabian one!

Yeah, but the story was a French translation of a middle eastern folktale.

Aladdin (Arabic: علاء الدين, ʻAlāʼ ad-Dīn; literally meaning in English; "nobility of the faith") is one of the tales in The Book of One Thousand and One Nights (Arabian Nights), and one of the most famous, although it was actually added to the collection by Antoine Galland (see sources and setting).[2]

Antoine Galland (April 4, 1646 – February 17, 1715) was a French orientalist and archaeologist, most famous as the first European translator of The Thousand and One Nights (also known as The Arabian Nights in English). His version of the tales appeared in twelve volumes between 1704 and 1717 and exerted a huge influence on subsequent European literature and attitudes to the Islamic world.

Cool, so if we come to the conclusion that Aladdin is racist or whatever, we can just blame the French.

[Juan_Bottom]

The logic some use to make judgments upon very old Disney movies is an example of "Historian's Fallacy- occurs when one assumes that decision makers of the past viewed events from the same perspective and having the same information as those subsequently analyzing the decision."

Some are looking at this stuff through the prism of today's thinking and ignoring the actual times these movies were made. Not only do they make their own subjective judgments about the meanings, but also assume that everyone else should think the same way.


The haters need to relax.

You're right. It was ok to be a Nazi. Because it was the "in" thing to be at the time.
OR
We're on to something with the way we're thinking..... There's no such thing as the "Historian's Fallacy." The only fallacy is that we have no right to judge ignorant and backward behavior, regardless of the environment producing it.

I'd say it's about as racist as the movies you named from Disney. I mean, my gosh, they made the bad guy DARK.. just like, my gosh, Disney made the circus workers DARK.

Wonder how one explains Mickey Mouse (black mouse, but a good guy) in Disney terms, though...

They seemed like Black men to me... And it's the same film featuring Jim Crow. So even if you can get past the "Happy-Hearted Roustabouts," You still have to contend with Jim Crow.
I don't see a parallel between ignorant Black workers and bad black ants.

Well, if you recall, the supposedly "abducted" people trespassed on Beast's land; it's not like he went to the city looking to abduct Belle. So wasn't it fair of Beast to hold them accountable for trespassing?

Of course he does, presumably... But not to abduct her for it. There's also the question of who's land it really was in title, because it seemed that no one from the area even knew a castle was there. I would assume there had to be a title somewhere, but who knows who held it? Prime forest real-estate like that wouldn't sit idle without someone stepping in to claim. I could see someone making a good argument that the Beast was actually a squatter.

[patches70]

You're right. It was ok to be a Nazi. Because it was the "in" thing to be at the time.
OR
We're on to something with the way we're thinking..... There's no such thing as the "Historian's Fallacy." The only fallacy is that we have no right to judge ignorant and backward behavior, regardless of the environment producing it.

List of logic fallacies you have made in the above statement-

-Fallacy of exclusive premises
-Straw Man
-Judgmental Language
-Chronological fallacy
-Reductio ad Hitlerum,
-Existential fallacy
-Cum hoc ergo propter hoc
-Retrospective determinism

And your whole thread is-
-Reductio ad absurdum

Deal with it.

[The Bison King]

You're right. It was ok to be a Nazi. Because it was the "in" thing to be at the time.
OR
We're on to something with the way we're thinking..... There's no such thing as the "Historian's Fallacy." The only fallacy is that we have no right to judge ignorant and backward behavior, regardless of the environment producing it.

You're being an idiot or a troll but I can't decide which. First off he films don't advocate racism. You're bending over-backwards to insert racist elements that don't inherently define the film as a whole. If anything it seems that you're inserting your own underlying insecurities about racism into the films (just sayin). Second off there IS such a thing as historical fallacy. If you made a film tomorrow and did your best to make it completely PC and family friendly the people of 2250 are probably going to find some issue with your attitudes. Maybe by then everyone will be a vegetarian or will walk on their hands. Third off Walt Disney was a Film maker and a Artist. It wasn't his job to make a guide on how to behave for little children he was trying to create art, and maybe you haven't noticed but art, quite often, becomes controversial. That's what makes it interesting, stories about the human condition are rarely ones with no strife in the face of adversity. Fourth off you are assuming that all animation is meant entirely for little children. While most of disney's films (more recently) are geared for children they were supposed to appeal to adults as well (like fantasia which was exclusively meant for adults) . Also maybe you didn't notice but children grow up into adults. Every experience is another step along that path. So it's futile and naive to pretend that you can or should trap your children in the bubble of innocence forever by showing them nothing but lame PBS cartoons about hugging and making friends with the Chinese kid in the wheel chair who actually turns out to be really cool ad just like us!

Good Day Sir!

[patches70]

All of OP's fallacies
make him appear to be
a phallus.

[oVo]

Of course it's a troll... why do you even bother attempting
to insert some form of rational logic here?

If Disney produced had porn he would be guilty of the phallusy
of exclusive penises.

[Juan_Bottom]

You're right. It was ok to be a Nazi. Because it was the "in" thing to be at the time.
OR
We're on to something with the way we're thinking..... There's no such thing as the "Historian's Fallacy." The only fallacy is that we have no right to judge ignorant and backward behavior, regardless of the environment producing it.

List of logic fallacies you have made in the above statement-

-Fallacy of exclusive premises
-Straw Man
-Judgmental Language
-Chronological fallacy
-Reductio ad Hitlerum,
-Existential fallacy
-Cum hoc ergo propter hoc
-Retrospective determinism

And your whole thread is-
-Reductio ad absurdum

Deal with it.

I often find that, when people can't form an argument, or fail to see one they can use, they just say something like "that was ad hominem, lol @ you!" or some junk and walk away. I am completely correct when I say that we have every right to judge absurd and backwards behavior. To say that your argument justifies being a Nazi in the late 30s is not a fallacy. To draw such a parallel is obvious because Hitler was racist like Disney, and the comparison would carry the most shock value. Your list looks completely copy/paste, and isn't presented well or thought out well. Some of them don't fit here at all, like the argument ad Hitlerum. It's intellectual-sounding but intellectual-nonsense to anyone who understands what you're crying.

Second off there IS such a thing as historical fallacy. If you made a film tomorrow and did your best to make it completely PC and family friendly the people of 2250 are probably going to find some issue with your attitudes.

Several of the films mentioned have been edited by Disney because they offended so many. That's an admission of guilt. This Includes Fantasia and Aladdin. I mentioned the Black workers from DUMBO because there was discussion a long time ago to add color to some of them them to mix up their ethnicity. Besides this, you take a movie like Song Of the South that has an almost idealistic and romantic look back on slavery, then yeah, that's inherently racist. The NAACP decried it as such. No black person wants to hear about how much fun it was being a slave. I'm sure they don't want to see some cartoon Crow playing the token uneducated black role either.

Third off Walt Disney was a Film maker and a Artist. It wasn't his job to make a guide on how to behave for little children he was trying to create art, and maybe you haven't noticed but art, quite often, becomes controversial. That's what makes it interesting, stories about the human condition are rarely ones with no strife in the face of adversity.

Yup, and good old Uncle Remus taught our children how it was awesome to be a slave. You could call it art, but that's not to say it's ok for children to hear.

So it's futile and naive to pretend that you can or should trap your children in the bubble of innocence forever by showing them nothing but lame PBS cartoons about hugging and making friends with the Chinese kid in the wheel chair who actually turns out to be really cool ad just like us!


Good Day Sir!

So like, Pink Floyd's the Wall then?

[Juan_Bottom]

All of OP's fallacies
make him appear to be
a phallus.

Well firstly if you get in trouble for this I'm not the one who reported you. Second of all, I don't mind you saying it because you don't even understand the argument that you made about fallacies. Words have meaning, and my mastery of 11th grade English has helped me understand that you don't know all the meanings of the ones you've used.

[Lootifer]

Only skimmed thread, but regardless of what Walt was or wasn't, Disney, as a maker of cartoons, is just pretty bad at what they do.

Nick/CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Disney

So you're like what? 8 or 9? or do you just have no appreciation for film history?

No, i'm a cynic.

And cynics the world over (if they care enough) would tell you how very terrible Disney is from a creative standpoint. From their earliest dribble to the terrible modern Disney bullocks

[The Bison King]

And cynics the world over (if they care enough) would tell you how very terrible Disney is from a creative standpoint.

So making the first full length animated film wasn't creative how? Cartoon Networks great but it stands on the shoulders of Giants.

Several of the films mentioned have been edited by Disney because they offended so many. That's an admission of guilt. This Includes Fantasia and Aladdin. I mentioned the Black workers from DUMBO because there was discussion a long time ago to add color to some of them them to mix up their ethnicity. Besides this, you take a movie like Song Of the South that has an almost idealistic and romantic look back on slavery, then yeah, that's inherently racist. The NAACP decried it as such. No black person wants to hear about how much fun it was being a slave. I'm sure they don't want to see some cartoon Crow playing the token uneducated black role either.

You do know that song of the south was a compilation of traditional African American stories and fables, right? Granted they were first collected and published by a white guy, Joel Chandler Harris but he was trying to do their heritage justice. Maybe he succeeded maybe he didn't I don't know. Perhaps he had good intentions but came at from a bit of a patronizing angle, it's all obscured by history. In his time he was probably very progressive. Thats the hole point,it's not so black and white. Time fades things out into shades of grey. Also I don't think the intention was to idealize slavery. Again you are injecting that into your argument.

So like, Pink Floyd's the Wall then?

No more like Watership Down.

either way I believe the differences in our opinions are irreconcilable.

[Nola_Lifer]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/girlsaloud.asp

[Aradhus]

So like, Pink Floyd's the Wall then?

No more like Watership Down.

I don't care to read whatever you crazies are arguing about, I just wanted to quote this because it contains two of my most favourite things.

[LFAW]

At least they're not trying to make our kids homosessuals like THAT DAMNED SPONGEBOB

This made me laugh... so much

[Army of GOD]

At least they're not trying to make our kids homosessuals like THAT DAMNED SPONGEBOB

This made me laugh... so much

http://sbbde.ytmnd.com/

[Juan_Bottom]

You do know that song of the south was a compilation of traditional African American stories and fables, right? Granted they were first collected and published by a white guy, Joel Chandler Harris but he was trying to do their heritage justice. Maybe he succeeded maybe he didn't I don't know. Perhaps he had good intentions but came at from a bit of a patronizing angle, it's all obscured by history.

I don't know about any of that stuff, because it's all beside the point. We're talking about what Disney did with it. I don't know if they butchered his work like they did with Alice in Wonderland or the Black Cauldron, I just know the end result of their effort.

Thats the hole point,it's not so black and white. Time fades things out into shades of grey. Also I don't think the intention was to idealize slavery. Again you are injecting that into your argument.

Neither racism nor slavery has faded into any gray area. And it was not my argument originally, it was the NAACP's.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/girlsaloud.asp

I don't believe the photo needed any whore-ifying. It was horrifying enough seeing those young ladies exposing their fun-bags and belly buttons at a children's award show.

[Aradhus]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/girlsaloud.asp

I don't believe the photo needed any whore-ifying. It was horrifying enough seeing those young ladies exposing their fun-bags and belly buttons at a children's award show.

Those poor children. However will they cope witnessing such horror.

[Chewie1]

Wow my six year old daughter recently for her birthday had a snow white dress and a belle dress (from me and her mummy) in light of all this sexism/womanism perhaps i should ban her from wearing it, yeah right..

[Juan_Bottom]

I actually think that as a father it's a good thing to raise your girl(s) to think that they are princesses who deserve to be rescued.

[Army of GOD]

Sorry, but after watching Mulan again I can't help but bump this shizzle. Mulan has to be the biggest pro-feminism film that came out ever. Obviously a lot of characters in it are sexist (you know, they only want to kill females who cross-dressed and fought in the army), but that's like saying everyone in Schindler's List is anti-Semetic because there were a few Nazis in it.


On a related note, the bathing scene in Mulan was pretty much the first time I discovered my sexuality when I was a kid. Is it weird that I still kinda get a boner?

[Army of GOD]

Also, the whole Stockholm Syndrome sub-topic in this thread is a complete load of stuff that comes from my buttocks and you guys are trying REALLY hard to dig up examples of sexism in more recent Disney films (I do agree that older films like Sleeping Beauty are pretty sexist, but Disney himself was a fucked up piece of shit).

[Aradhus]

On a related note, the bathing scene in Mulan was pretty much the first time I discovered my sexuality when I was a kid. Is it weird that I still kinda get a boner?

Naw dude, totally normal. It'd be weird if you masturbated. You didnt, right?

[Army of GOD]

On a related note, the bathing scene in Mulan was pretty much the first time I discovered my sexuality when I was a kid. Is it weird that I still kinda get a boner?

Naw dude, totally normal. It'd be weird if you masturbated. You didnt, right?

I hope not.