Sweden Adopts Gender Neutral Pronoun

[saxitoxin]

Oops, now Saxi has resorted to pictures, too.

[saxitoxin]

Oh crap, I forgot to log-out of my Saxi account and into my Symmetry account before I made that last post.

[Symmetry]

You forgot to add a giant fireball at the far right point in the graph where Symmetry declares everyone is out to get him.

Ah, a cameo by Saxi, no doubt with an explanation of how my posts don't bother you at all.

Saxi, do you think BBS is an American feminist?

[BigBallinStalin]

You forgot to add a giant fireball at the far right point in the graph where Symmetry declares everyone is out to get him.

Good prediction, saxi:


New post by Symmetry on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:16 pm

I see we've gone with the pictures for BBS, and the "why are you so defensive" line for Saxi. All for asking if BBS was a feminist.

[Symmetry]

Good thing I didn't ask you a question about economics, then there really would have been a BBS horror show.

[Army of GOD]

THIS IS NOW A RAINBOW STALIN THREAD

[Symmetry]

Hey, AOG, are you a feminist?

[Army of GOD]

Hey, AOG, are you a feminist?

I prefer a gender neutral term. I'm a "personist".

[BigBallinStalin]

[Symmetry]

Hey, AOG, are you a feminist?

I prefer a gender neutral term. I'm a "personist".

But you are aware of the term "feminist", right? You do know that such a term exists. You do have a basic awareness of what it means, at least within your own personal set of definitions? I'm not throwing some trick question out here. I can rephrase it a little and ask you if you consider yourself a feminist.

That way you don't have to follow the road of many .gifs that the question has driven lesser men down.

It's a pretty straightforward question, after all.

[Army of GOD]

No, I am not a feminist.

[Symmetry]

No, I am not a feminist.

See, not so hard. It's like pulling teeth from Saxi and Mutley of late trying to get a simple answer like that.

[saxitoxin]

No, I am not a feminist.

See, not so hard. It's like pulling teeth from Saxi and Mutley of late trying to get a simple answer like that.

damn it AoG, way not to be a team player

[Army of GOD]

No, I am not a feminist.

See, not so hard. It's like pulling teeth from Saxi and Mutley of late trying to get a simple answer like that.

damn it AoG, way not to be a team player

Payback for not inviting me to any of your Xmas orgies you cunt

[BigBallinStalin]

Whatever happened to solidarity?

[Symmetry]

Whatever happened to solidarity?

You got it, with Saxi, Mutley:

[Ray Rider]

Hey, AOG, are you a feminist?

I prefer a gender neutral term. I'm a "personist".

But you are aware of the term "feminist", right? You do know that such a term exists. You do have a basic awareness of what it means, at least within your own personal set of definitions? I'm not throwing some trick question out here. I can rephrase it a little and ask you if you consider yourself a feminist.

That way you don't have to follow the road of many .gifs that the question has driven lesser men down.

It's a pretty straightforward question, after all.

It's only straightforward if it's clear that both people agree on the definitions of words which compose the question.

[MeDeFe]

Hey, AOG, are you a feminist?

I prefer a gender neutral term. I'm a "personist".

But you are aware of the term "feminist", right? You do know that such a term exists. You do have a basic awareness of what it means, at least within your own personal set of definitions? I'm not throwing some trick question out here. I can rephrase it a little and ask you if you consider yourself a feminist.

That way you don't have to follow the road of many .gifs that the question has driven lesser men down.

It's a pretty straightforward question, after all.

It's only straightforward if it's clear that both people agree on the definitions of words which compose the question.

I think you're right about that, but then it's up to the person introducing the terms to define them, no?



And to answer a few questions that were asked previously... Swedish does have an expression eqivalent to "that person" but just as in english it's a bit too long and comes across as slightly rude. The gender-neutral "one" of english is "man" in swedish, it's phonetically indistinguishable from "mann" which means "man" in english, and is thus not gender-neutral at all. In fact, it's exactly like defaulting to a male pronoun if the gender is unknown.

"Hen" should actually work out very well for swedish because it doesn't carry any of the problems that the T-Rex pointed out (especially regarding "thon") in the dinosaur comic earlier in the thread.

[natty dread]

Regarding the question of feminism, I personally wouldn't call myself a feminist, due to it being such a vague definition - I would rather classify myself as a sex-positive gender egalitarian.

[thegreekdog]

Peyton Personning

Peyton Henning.

[Symmetry]

Hey, AOG, are you a feminist?

I prefer a gender neutral term. I'm a "personist".

But you are aware of the term "feminist", right? You do know that such a term exists. You do have a basic awareness of what it means, at least within your own personal set of definitions? I'm not throwing some trick question out here. I can rephrase it a little and ask you if you consider yourself a feminist.

That way you don't have to follow the road of many .gifs that the question has driven lesser men down.

It's a pretty straightforward question, after all.

It's only straightforward if it's clear that both people agree on the definitions of words which compose the question.

Not exactly, the basic question is whether people consider themselves to be feminists or not.

Would you call yourself an American feminist?

Would be the original question BBS dodged. Bear in mind that this was in the context of asking him for his definition of the "American feminists" he so vaguely raised.

I've asked the question in a few different ways, true, but it's a question of self-definition, and not really one dependent on who you're talking to.

[BigBallinStalin]

The goal of American feminism is about promoting equality between the two sexes, and you can lump genders in there as well.

Their means have already been mentioned but are frequently ignored due to the excessive state of being fussy and incessant tut-tutting, are:

"implementation and enforcement by the government (i.e. total external change)."
"That approach typically describes this particular group of American feminists' MO (modus operandi). They exaggerate the external cultural effects, downplay the individual's agency, and overestimate the effectiveness of imposing external change. That's my main point."
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169713&start=15#p3707072
(as defined since page 2)


Here's my stance on this kind of feminism:

As a feminist or any feminist group marginally shifts toward exaggerating the effects of an exogenous culture, downplaying the individual's agency, and overestimating the effectiveness of imposing change through the state, then I marginally shift away from that type of feminism.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169713&start=15#p3707474

(if you don't understand this, then instead of being fussy, simply ask)


Here's how people should operate in general, concerning issues that are held dear to many feminists:

As an individual, it's best not reduce someone's identity to stereotypes and "common sense" thinking. Instead it's more practical to give someone the benefit of the doubt. As in, you don't really know who someone really is--even if you know their skin color, gender, etc. A more accurate approach is to listen to what the person says, how that person behaves, etc. But in some cases, that approach might not be the most effective only by itself, but this caveat is mostly related to national security.

_____________________________________
If you have half a brain, you should know by know what my stance regarding whenever a group uses the state as the means of enforcing its agenda.
(waits for Symmetry's tut-tutting while on his Merry-Go-Round)

[Dukasaur]

So hen is neuter.

I'm sure a mother hen is still female, though.

[natty dread]

The goal of American feminism is about promoting equality between the two sexes, and you can lump genders in there as well.

Their means have already been mentioned but are frequently ignored due to the excessive state of being fussy and incessant tut-tutting, are:

"implementation and enforcement by the government (i.e. total external change)."
"That approach typically describes this particular group of American feminists' MO (modus operandi). They exaggerate the external cultural effects, downplay the individual's agency, and overestimate the effectiveness of imposing external change. That's my main point."
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169713&start=15#p3707072
(as defined since page 2)


Here's my stance on this kind of feminism:

As a feminist or any feminist group marginally shifts toward exaggerating the effects of an exogenous culture, downplaying the individual's agency, and overestimating the effectiveness of imposing change through the state, then I marginally shift away from that type of feminism.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=169713&start=15#p3707474

(if you don't understand this, then instead of being fussy, simply ask)


Here's how people should operate in general, concerning issues that are held dear to many feminists:

As an individual, it's best not reduce someone's identity to stereotypes and "common sense" thinking. Instead it's more practical to give someone the benefit of the doubt. As in, you don't really know who someone really is--even if you know their skin color, gender, etc. A more accurate approach is to listen to what the person says, how that person behaves, etc. But in some cases, that approach might not be the most effective only by itself, but this caveat is mostly related to national security.

_____________________________________
If you have half a brain, you should know by know what my stance regarding whenever a group uses the state as the means of enforcing its agenda.
(waits for Symmetry's tut-tutting while on his Merry-Go-Round)

Ok, BBS. I have a few questions to you.

1. Can you give some examples of what kind of methods are "certain american feminists" employing that are attempting to enforce gender equality by the means of government enforcement and/or regulation, and why is government intervention not appropriate in this instance (unless you assert that government intervention is universally a bad thing)?

2. Can you give some examples of how external cultural effects are exaggerated? What kind of external cultural effects are exaggerated and why are they not as significant as they are made out to be by these certain american feminists?

3. As a gender-egalitarian I mostly agree about your assessment that people should be treated as individuals and not be reduced to stereotypes. What kind of measures do you believe feminists and other social justice activists should take in order to promote this type of thinking among the general population?

4. What kind of measures do you think feminists and other social justice activists should take in order to reduce discrimination and promote gender equality, racial equality, ____ equality?

[BigBallinStalin]

I'll respond if you explain why you are against free markets and are in favor of "basic human rights," whatever they may be.