Should the Totenkopf be banned as a avatar??

[betiko]

qwert, I lived in india as a child and i perfectly know where the nazis took the symbol from. the indian one is usually straight and usually has dots around it, the nazi one is standing up on it's point and is dark blue/black with a red background.
I have no problem with people using the original one, there is a difference, but I think only idiots would use the nazi one.

Here is 2 images from the now defunct automaker Krit, years before the nazis used it. A watch fob from Coca Cola circa 1925

and? what is your point? i don't care about this. I only care if someone uses a symbol that represents the nazis. those don't.
Or like the signature you once did with a fucked up nazi flag that you tried to use with the name of our clan. I see by the way that you used again a look alike flag in your signature, and even if it's not really a nazi flag i know what you are doing.
by the way, who is this guy on your avatar? kind of makes me think of mussolini with a german uniform.

The image in my avatar is of Field Marshal Paulis. As far as this flag..you think you know what I am doing , but in fact you a a small and narrow minded individual who like the Nazis wants to impose your beliefs on others.

BS, this is the nazi germany military flag not used only by paulus.

[thegreekdog]

greekdog... i don't understand what is so hard to understand.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is representative of the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"

no. this is not what it is. that's what it is.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is from the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"


there is nothing to argue about his fraking skull and bones used, unless you are blind.

I understand the issue perfectly. And your change to my scenario doesn't change my conclusion. Here is what you are missing:

(1) Is it the intent of the user to offend? The answer could be yes because he's not changing his avatar. The answer could be that he's not changing his avatar because he's pissed that someone is insinuating that he's a Nazi sympathizer.
Perhaps, perhaps not. He would never admit to it even if he did. This, in mafia, is called WIFOM. Can go either way.
(2) Why did it take three years to find this avatar offensive?
Because he isnt a select 1 of 10 players on this game. There are several players with several opinions on here. Just because someone finally saw it and thinks it offensive, does not mean he is crazy or something.
(3) What happens when other items are deemed offensive? How are the moderators supposed to react?
Well IDK, perhaps force the change of the avatar if someone deems it offensive. Just like if it was one of the past ones that got blocked.
I think you need to think about those questions.

You don't have an avatar, so you probably won't care too much, but the result of your answer is probably that CC will not permit any avatars.

Some socialist will find my avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some Star Wars enthusiast will find Woodruff's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some person whose parents were killed by wolves will find beitko's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.

[Woodruff]

Some Star Wars enthusiast will find Woodruff's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.

I find your lack of faith...disturbing.

[ghostly447]

greekdog... i don't understand what is so hard to understand.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is representative of the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"

no. this is not what it is. that's what it is.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is from the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"


there is nothing to argue about his fraking skull and bones used, unless you are blind.

I understand the issue perfectly. And your change to my scenario doesn't change my conclusion. Here is what you are missing:

(1) Is it the intent of the user to offend? The answer could be yes because he's not changing his avatar. The answer could be that he's not changing his avatar because he's pissed that someone is insinuating that he's a Nazi sympathizer.
Perhaps, perhaps not. He would never admit to it even if he did. This, in mafia, is called WIFOM. Can go either way.
(2) Why did it take three years to find this avatar offensive?
Because he isnt a select 1 of 10 players on this game. There are several players with several opinions on here. Just because someone finally saw it and thinks it offensive, does not mean he is crazy or something.
(3) What happens when other items are deemed offensive? How are the moderators supposed to react?
Well IDK, perhaps force the change of the avatar if someone deems it offensive. Just like if it was one of the past ones that got blocked.
I think you need to think about those questions.

You don't have an avatar, so you probably won't care too much, but the result of your answer is probably that CC will not permit any avatars.

Some socialist will find my avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some Star Wars enthusiast will find Woodruff's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some person whose parents were killed by wolves will find beitko's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.

Your last bit is only relevant in one aspect.

Socialists will find your ava offensive: Perhaps. Cross that bridge when you come to it.
Star wars fans: That wasnt about real people killing 4 million real innocent people sir/ma'am.
Parent killed by wolves: There are hardly any recorded cases of someone being killed by a wolf. It would be very hard to prove their parent got killed by wolves, whereas it is not difficult (unless you think its a sham) to know that Nazi's killed millions of jews, gypsies, etc in concentration/labor camps.

[thegreekdog]

greekdog... i don't understand what is so hard to understand.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is representative of the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"

no. this is not what it is. that's what it is.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is from the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"


there is nothing to argue about his fraking skull and bones used, unless you are blind.

I understand the issue perfectly. And your change to my scenario doesn't change my conclusion. Here is what you are missing:

(1) Is it the intent of the user to offend? The answer could be yes because he's not changing his avatar. The answer could be that he's not changing his avatar because he's pissed that someone is insinuating that he's a Nazi sympathizer.
Perhaps, perhaps not. He would never admit to it even if he did. This, in mafia, is called WIFOM. Can go either way.
(2) Why did it take three years to find this avatar offensive?
Because he isnt a select 1 of 10 players on this game. There are several players with several opinions on here. Just because someone finally saw it and thinks it offensive, does not mean he is crazy or something.
(3) What happens when other items are deemed offensive? How are the moderators supposed to react?
Well IDK, perhaps force the change of the avatar if someone deems it offensive. Just like if it was one of the past ones that got blocked.
I think you need to think about those questions.

You don't have an avatar, so you probably won't care too much, but the result of your answer is probably that CC will not permit any avatars.

Some socialist will find my avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some Star Wars enthusiast will find Woodruff's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some person whose parents were killed by wolves will find beitko's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.

Your last bit is only relevant in one aspect.

Socialists will find your ava offensive: Perhaps. Cross that bridge when you come to it.
Star wars fans: That wasnt about real people killing 4 million real innocent people sir/ma'am.
Parent killed by wolves: There are hardly any recorded cases of someone being killed by a wolf. It would be very hard to prove their parent got killed by wolves, whereas it is not difficult (unless you think its a sham) to know that Nazi's killed millions of jews, gypsies, etc in concentration/labor camps.

Right. Except that you can't prove that the user meant to offend anyone. You can infer that he/she does mean to offend, but it's hard to infer that when no one figured out what his avatar was FOR THREE YEARS! How is this not making sense? Wouldn't another person who is offended by Nazi symbols have figured it out if this particular symbol was so offensive?

[betiko]

greekdog... i don't understand what is so hard to understand.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is representative of the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"

no. this is not what it is. that's what it is.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is from the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"


there is nothing to argue about his fraking skull and bones used, unless you are blind.

I understand the issue perfectly. And your change to my scenario doesn't change my conclusion. Here is what you are missing:

(1) Is it the intent of the user to offend? The answer could be yes because he's not changing his avatar. The answer could be that he's not changing his avatar because he's pissed that someone is insinuating that he's a Nazi sympathizer.

(2) Why did it take three years to find this avatar offensive?

(3) What happens when other items are deemed offensive? How are the moderators supposed to react?

I think you need to think about those questions.

1) if his intent is not to offend, and he didn't know what it was, any normal person would go "shit, i ve been flagging a nazi symbol during all those years, i don't want to be related to that, good time to change"
2) i don't know, i've been here since over 1 and a half years and saw this for the first time saturday when he wrote on my wall. I guess a majority of people couldn't distinguish this symbol and thought it was just another skull and bones.
3) swastikas are not permitted on the site, i don't see why it would be different for a totenkopf

[ghostly447]

greekdog... i don't understand what is so hard to understand.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is representative of the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"

no. this is not what it is. that's what it is.
" Someone, three years later, figures out the white sheet is from the KKK and tries to get you to change your avatar"


there is nothing to argue about his fraking skull and bones used, unless you are blind.

I understand the issue perfectly. And your change to my scenario doesn't change my conclusion. Here is what you are missing:

(1) Is it the intent of the user to offend? The answer could be yes because he's not changing his avatar. The answer could be that he's not changing his avatar because he's pissed that someone is insinuating that he's a Nazi sympathizer.
Perhaps, perhaps not. He would never admit to it even if he did. This, in mafia, is called WIFOM. Can go either way.
(2) Why did it take three years to find this avatar offensive?
Because he isnt a select 1 of 10 players on this game. There are several players with several opinions on here. Just because someone finally saw it and thinks it offensive, does not mean he is crazy or something.
(3) What happens when other items are deemed offensive? How are the moderators supposed to react?
Well IDK, perhaps force the change of the avatar if someone deems it offensive. Just like if it was one of the past ones that got blocked.
I think you need to think about those questions.

You don't have an avatar, so you probably won't care too much, but the result of your answer is probably that CC will not permit any avatars.

Some socialist will find my avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some Star Wars enthusiast will find Woodruff's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.
Some person whose parents were killed by wolves will find beitko's avatar offensive and ask it to be changed.

Your last bit is only relevant in one aspect.

Socialists will find your ava offensive: Perhaps. Cross that bridge when you come to it.
Star wars fans: That wasnt about real people killing 4 million real innocent people sir/ma'am.
Parent killed by wolves: There are hardly any recorded cases of someone being killed by a wolf. It would be very hard to prove their parent got killed by wolves, whereas it is not difficult (unless you think its a sham) to know that Nazi's killed millions of jews, gypsies, etc in concentration/labor camps.

Right. Except that you can't prove that the user meant to offend anyone. You can infer that he/she does mean to offend, but it's hard to infer that when no one figured out what his avatar was FOR THREE YEARS! How is this not making sense? Wouldn't another person who is offended by Nazi symbols have figured it out if this particular symbol was so offensive?

Perhaps many people did not view his profile. Perhaps many people ARENT offended by Nazi symbols (I personally am not. I am arguing this because if someone is offended, then it should be fixed). Your argument makes sense, but there are just too many factors.

[bedub1]

you guys are weirdos... so it's ok to make an apology of slaughter war crimes, deportation by using it as an avatar? survivors of the hollocaust are still in this world, nice respect for thm tolerating that some ignorant idiots make the apology of SS.

why wouldn't it be ok then to use KKK, al qaeda, serial killers and britney spears avatars?

It's perfectly fine to use any of those objects as your avatar. See in the world of "free speech" that means also that people get to say things you don't like. You are going to be offended, and there is nothing you can do about it. Else the second you start to take away somebody else's rights, they will turn around and take away yours.

You find the avatar offense? I find yours offense. You find my religion offensive, I find yours offense. You find me offensive, I find you offense. You want to ban his avatar, I want to ban your existence.

You want the freedom to state you think his avatar is bad? You have to allow the Westboro Baptist Church to state what they think is bad.

your logic is flawed; freedom of speach comes from human rights, and the human rights mention that your freedom stops where everyone else's start. War butchers aren't anywhere on the human rights and in the respect of other people's freedom. War butchers and their worshippers are offensive to others and affect other people's freedom. therefore they should not be tolerated.

I agree your freedom stops where someone else's starts. That's why you can't go around killing people. But you can have a skull and crossbones as your avatar. You can take his avatar, and put a red circle and X over it, and set it as your own avatar.

The person hasn't killed you, they haven't attacked you. They put up a picture as their avatar. It is YOU who has the problem. The problem is yours alone. Only you can solve it by modifying how you react to external stimuli.

EDIT: Nowhere do you have the freedom to avoid being offended.

[Woodruff]

While I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that this user's avatar is fine, didn't CC make the statement that swastikas were not to be put on maps?

Or am I misremembering that?

If that is the case, then I think there is precedent here.

So...nothing?

[Haggis_McMutton]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

[Haggis_McMutton]

While I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that this user's avatar is fine, didn't CC make the statement that swastikas were not to be put on maps?

Or am I misremembering that?

If that is the case, then I think there is precedent here.

So...nothing?

I guess maps that have some kind of official CC endorsement are different than user content that happens to be on CC.

You could view it as slightly hypocritical, but tbh my priority is in keeping a vibrant community alive on CC. Heavy handed moderation almost invariably kills such a community, so I'll take my victories where I can in

[Woodruff]

While I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that this user's avatar is fine, didn't CC make the statement that swastikas were not to be put on maps?

Or am I misremembering that?

If that is the case, then I think there is precedent here.

So...nothing?

I guess maps that have some kind of official CC endorsement are different than user content that happens to be on CC.

I can buy that argument. I would be surprised that the mods did, but I can see it.

[Army of GOD]

It's annoying how anything Nazi related is automatically offensive while you can post whatever you want in favor of Stalin, the USSR, Truman, etc. and none of that matters.

[betiko]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

I grew up with stories of my grandma explaining me how was her teenagehood under german occupation, and how SS militias took her father and lynched him on the town square for hidding jews. How am I supposed to not be offended by some 74 year old asshole flagging te SS symbol as an avatar?

[Army of GOD]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

I grew up with stories of my grandma explaining me how was her teenagehood under german occupation, and how SS militias took her father and lynched him on the town square for hidding jews. How am I supposed to not be offended by some 74 year old asshole flagging te SS symbol as an avatar?

here's my advice: suck it the f*ck up or just keep it to yourself.

If everyone complained if they were offended, life would suck. I have family members that were killed by drunk drivers. You know what I do when people make jokes about driving drunk? I suck it the f*ck up. I know it's easier for me to bite my tongue than expect the world to change itself because I'm being upset.

So seriously, just suck it up.

[bedub1]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

I grew up with stories of my grandma explaining me how was her teenagehood under german occupation, and how SS militias took her father and lynched him on the town square for hidding jews. How am I supposed to not be offended by some 74 year old asshole flagging te SS symbol as an avatar?

here's my advice: suck it the f*ck up or just keep it to yourself.

If everyone complained if they were offended, life would suck. I have family members that were killed by drunk drivers. You know what I do when people make jokes about driving drunk? I suck it the f*ck up. I know it's easier for me to bite my tongue than expect the world to change itself because I'm being upset.

So seriously, just suck it up.

Well said.

[betiko]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

I grew up with stories of my grandma explaining me how was her teenagehood under german occupation, and how SS militias took her father and lynched him on the town square for hidding jews. How am I supposed to not be offended by some 74 year old asshole flagging te SS symbol as an avatar?

here's my advice: suck it the f*ck up or just keep it to yourself.

If everyone complained if they were offended, life would suck. I have family members that were killed by drunk drivers. You know what I do when people make jokes about driving drunk? I suck it the f*ck up. I know it's easier for me to bite my tongue than expect the world to change itself because I'm being upset.

So seriously, just suck it up.

wow, your attitude blows my mind. I guess you're my new rolemodel. yeah i guess that's what we all should do! you have people in your familly killed by drunk driver and it doesn't make you more sensitive to it, you just don't give a f*ck, may it happen forever to others.

[bedub1]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

I grew up with stories of my grandma explaining me how was her teenagehood under german occupation, and how SS militias took her father and lynched him on the town square for hidding jews. How am I supposed to not be offended by some 74 year old asshole flagging te SS symbol as an avatar?

here's my advice: suck it the f*ck up or just keep it to yourself.

If everyone complained if they were offended, life would suck. I have family members that were killed by drunk drivers. You know what I do when people make jokes about driving drunk? I suck it the f*ck up. I know it's easier for me to bite my tongue than expect the world to change itself because I'm being upset.

So seriously, just suck it up.

wow, your attitude blows my mind. I guess you're my new rolemodel. yeah i guess that's what we all should do! you have people in your familly killed by drunk driver and it doesn't make you more sensitive to it, you just don't give a f*ck, may it happen forever to others.

Better than your attitude which seems to be "I should be able to take away these peoples right to free speech because it offends me."

[betiko]

(our society = american society because all across europe we don't find any logic in that)
let me put it this way; freakns has a clan called otpisani. it's a yougoslavian tvshow from the 80s or whatever about resistance fighting the germans. his avatar was the one of the show on which you see the characters and behind nazi flags burning. a report was made and he had to remove it.

So why on earth would he have to remove something about fighting nazis, and why would this guy get to keep his SS symbol?

I'm european.
Maybe we're not as bad as the americans but europeans are also way more used to seeing heads explode in movies than seeing sex depicted in movies

That guy shouldn't have had to remove it either. Like I said, I'm against censorship in almost all cases.
Pushing for more censorship because you didn't like that something else was censored doesn't help the matter any.

I grew up with stories of my grandma explaining me how was her teenagehood under german occupation, and how SS militias took her father and lynched him on the town square for hidding jews. How am I supposed to not be offended by some 74 year old asshole flagging te SS symbol as an avatar?

here's my advice: suck it the f*ck up or just keep it to yourself.

If everyone complained if they were offended, life would suck. I have family members that were killed by drunk drivers. You know what I do when people make jokes about driving drunk? I suck it the f*ck up. I know it's easier for me to bite my tongue than expect the world to change itself because I'm being upset.

So seriously, just suck it up.

wow, your attitude blows my mind. I guess you're my new rolemodel. yeah i guess that's what we all should do! you have people in your familly killed by drunk driver and it doesn't make you more sensitive to it, you just don't give a f*ck, may it happen forever to others.

Better than your attitude which seems to be "I should be able to take away these peoples right to free speech because it offends me."

censored

[bedub1]

you're just a twat. Rip off your head and have a dump in your own neck.

Well that's not very polite.

[betiko]

you're just a twat. Rip off your head and have a dump in your own neck.

Well that's not very polite.

I'm just applying your concept of total freedom of speech mate.

[bedub1]

you're just a twat. Rip off your head and have a dump in your own neck.

Well that's not very polite.

I'm just applying your concept of total freedom of speech mate.

You must not be familiar with what a Flame is then.

[Army of GOD]

betiko, I find your avatar offensive. My grandma was killed by a pack of wolves and it's a very traumatic memory so I'm going to force you to change it.

[2dimes]

Plagiarism?

[Funkyterrance]

Plagiarism?

Beat me to it 2dimes.
You guys can at least do the OP the courtesy of reading the whole thread before you bash him. It's not a very long thread tbh, lots of short-ish posts.