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A tragic day

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Re: A tragic day

Postby tzor on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:09 am

saxitoxin wrote:NATO is about to be a dilapidated relic that will exist on paper only.


Not quite a "relic" but I suspect that the movement of the EU to a single military structure will always be so slow as to require the European side of NATO to remain.

saxitoxin wrote:The world's two great powers will finally be politically aligned - instead of warring through proxy states, the U.S. and Russia can cooperatively divide the world between them; two sides of a vice crunching a splintering and collapsing Europe for whatever treasures it can still cough up.


Highly doubtful. Things will continue to be much like Coke and Pepsi, and the two nations will always be at odds in multiple areas. I'm highly doubtful that cooperation will exist to be detrimental to Europe. If Russia were to apply pressure to cut off natural gas (a common tactic) the US might decide it's worthwhile now to enter the market.

By the way, Europe has no more treasures. It's dead. Rest in peace. Not even Trump can prevent ISE. It's a slow speed train wreck. The momentum cannot be stopped at this point.
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Re: A tragic day

Postby patches70 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:17 am

tzor wrote:It may take decades to recover from the Affordable Care Act.


Meh

tzor wrote:We may never recover completely from the Patriot Act.



Hey, the Patriot Act comes up for renewal every four years (at least), all it takes is one Congress to say "Nope, not renewing it this time" and that's it, it's gone, but I agree the Patriot Act is daft.

tzor wrote:It's really hard to say when the straw is going to break the camel's back. It's also hard to say when the US no longer was "bound" by the Constitution. But the more recent administrations made it more brazen. The impeachable crimes of past officials are now double downed by current officials with immunity in every shape and form. Laws are written to apply to everyone but the writers and enforcers of the law.


Oh yeah, absolutely, but that's the beauty of it, the American people will always rectify it eventually. One way or another.
Also, the US ain't gonna last forever. Nothing ever does. The Constitution as great as it is is still just a piece of paper. It takes people dedicated to it to preserve it. If we aren't dedicated then that's that, isn't it?

Like someone once said to the effect- "The Constitution will only last until people realize they can vote themselves to get money".
Isn't that what has happened? It's not like it's a surprise.
The Dems and Reps have poisoned the well for the benefit of themselves and their cronies. It's straight out of "Rules for Rulers" and it's not their fault not enough people understand that. The responsibility falls on the People to be diligent. Since we haven't been this shit happens. As it should.

People will change their tune real quick, it's already happening. All those celebrities and "important people" who said they'd leave the US if Trump got elected

Partial list-
show


they ain't going anywhere and if they do more power to them. The Huffington Post which in every single editorial they had about Trump always ended with a disclaimer-"Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S." has announced that they will no longer do that to start a "clean slate".

Bottom line in the immortal words of Benjamin the Donkey- "life will go on much like it always has, badly."
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Re: A tragic day

Postby mrswdk on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:42 am

The first paragraph of this BBC article sums it up:

Donald Trump, in his uncharacteristically gracious victory speech, said that "the forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer". Forgotten? They weren't forgotten. They were dismissed, disregarded, and despised by America's elites, all of whom got their comeuppance in Trump's staggering victory.


Hurray for Trump and shame on the hysterical snobs lining up to take shots at Americans for being stupid hicks.
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Re: A tragic day

Postby waauw on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:55 am

tzor wrote:Highly doubtful. Things will continue to be much like Coke and Pepsi, and the two nations will always be at odds in multiple areas. I'm highly doubtful that cooperation will exist to be detrimental to Europe. If Russia were to apply pressure to cut off natural gas (a common tactic) the US might decide it's worthwhile now to enter the market.

By the way, Europe has no more treasures. It's dead. Rest in peace. Not even Trump can prevent ISE. It's a slow speed train wreck. The momentum cannot be stopped at this point.


You're deluded if you think the EU is going to collapse anytime soon, if ever.

saxitoxin wrote:The world's two great powers will finally be politically aligned - instead of warring through proxy states, the U.S. and Russia can cooperatively divide the world between them; two sides of a vice crunching a splintering and collapsing Europe for whatever treasures it can still cough up.

saxitoxin wrote:NATO is about to be a dilapidated relic that will exist on paper only.


Know that Russia above all seeks a reapproachment with the rest of europe, not as much so with the US. The EU and Russia absolutely need eachother, but neither absolutely needs the US. Russia realizes this already. Throwing europe in Russia's arms is a dream come true for them and a nightmare for american diplomacy. So I highly doubt the rest of the republican party will ever let this pass.
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Postby 2dimes on Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:57 am

saxitoxin wrote:..U.S. and Russia can cooperatively divide the world between them; two sides of a vice crunching a splintering and collapsing Europe for whatever treasures it can still cough up...


In this context the spelling is "vise". The tool on a work bench used to hold things and sometimes as a small press.

Though some would argue what you did was correct. I don't know where the hatred for the US&A comes from, it seems like it is rooted in jealousy.
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Re: A tragic day

Postby GoranZ on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:20 pm

Has anyone seen Bernie Sanders? :lol:
Even a little kid knows whats the name of my country... http://youtu.be/XFxjy7f9RpY

Interested in clans? Check out the Fallen!
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Re: A tragic day

Postby waauw on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:31 pm

GoranZ wrote:Has anyone seen Bernie Sanders? :lol:


I noticed the same thing :lol:
Soon we'll see a new account show up talking exactly the same way as him.
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Re: A tragic day

Postby KoolBak on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:45 pm

betiko wrote:This is a sad day for humanity... after the UK voting for the brexit, USA has chosen Trump. If in 2017 france votes Le Pen, it will be official... idiots are the majority. Uneducated fools who just want a change and are ok to try their own shit just to change.

Be ready to be really hated everywhere in the world americans. The W bush years were nothing compared to Trump.. I would recommend you to stay in your country now.. that sucks because if you travel that means you are a victim and not one of these asshat hillbillie trump voter.

Go f*ck yourself america. I am deeply disapointed by you.


Luckily, I won't lose sleep over that :lol:

Can you post a copy of the BS you would have spewed if Satan...uh....Hillary would have been elected? ;)
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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A magic day

Postby 2dimes on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:14 pm

This is a exciting day for humanity... after Canada voting for the Justin, USA has chosen a third Clinton term.

It's sunshine and lollypops, rainbows is what we've got from here on.

Be ready to be really loved everywhere in the world americans. The free cell phone years were nothing compared to the coming third term.. I would recommend you to enlist, you'll have job security there for sure. because if you an American and travel that means you are probably military and will be super busy.

Thanks America, we're deeply proud of you for breaking the glass ceiling. Syria's next.
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Re: A tragic day

Postby eddie2 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:20 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:I'm getting ready for the purge! Wrapping baseball bats with barbed wire as we speak...

Lol Vincent machman for Vice President. Then they can all be the fake wrestlers they are.

But really America votes in a racist sexist son of a bitch (must show what true Americans want) lol(Canada's national borders crash) we now have a new seria no fucker wants to live in America no more. seruously think now uk need to rethink brexit without Europe we are gonna suffer a mass of influx of American immigrants.

Ps I don't hate Americans or anybody just don't like how u can vote for that arrogant prick to run your country ww3 on its way.
Last edited by eddie2 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A tragic day

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:22 pm

patches70 wrote: Russia isn't going to take you over.


Actually they have in my great grandfather's life, my grandfather's life, my father's life and in my life. What crack are you smoking?
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Re: A tragic day

Postby eddie2 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:29 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
patches70 wrote: Russia isn't going to take you over.


Actually they have in my great grandfather's life, my grandfather's life, my father's life and in my life. What crack are you smoking?


Lol lets wait for the new trump cards to come out.
America/Russia
Nuc power ?
Followers. ?
Oil. ?
Specialty ?
Like ability ?
Lol no numbers put yet let's wait for trumps new pack of cards and see what happens
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Re: A tragic day

Postby mrswdk on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:49 pm

At least for this guy there's always 2020:

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Re: A tragic day

Postby Mad777 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:05 pm

It amaze me to read from those who are not leaving here and think that they know this election will bring all that negativity that you all spoke about, really?
Does anyone possess a crystal ball that gives you the next 4 years forecast? Just for recall, none of the best analyst company from this country made a correct prediction since everybody was giving Clinton win from the Primary.
I'm gonna bring some real life exemple to explain why I think that Election can be only better than what we are use to since decades.

I'm born and raised in Switzerland (dual citizenship, swiss & french) and had a normal life like any other mid class kids with no excess, standard school program, mandatory military service, when time became that I have to pay my own bill I quickly became disgusted by the political system because I was just "young & ignorant"adult, so I packed my bag and move to the south of Spain (was getting tired of the winter time... :lol: ), oh boys, I discovered the hard way to live having to work like nothing I would imagine to gain just a little check, that check was barely enough to feed my family (met my wife and her 2 little kids down there :P ), well....E.U. Was suppose to be the best thing that ever happen in Europe :? ....wrong, wrong & wrong again, I faced momentum like all I've done prior had no impact here since all door closed for me to expect growing into this society and after 6 months and hundreds of jobs application I received 0 feedback (yeah zero, nada)....ok then, times to go back in the system I left that year before....but at least I learned that my previous job in Switzerland was perhaps a luck that I should be proud of and just move on....which I did.
Was then time to becomes like most of us think is the way to go, purchase my first home, for that I had to use again the E.U. card and move beyond the french border to be able to access an affordable home, I continued to focus in my job and gently climbed the ladder of the society to be well place and started to make good money, ok now what?
My job gave me opportunity to cross the pond and perhaps move to U.S. As I always wanted to work for that american company that make product I worked with in Switzerland and also because the headquarters were based in a sunshine place since I was really getting tired of the winter and seeing the E.U going to the wrong direction that will not offer any bright future to my kids (was back in 2008) we decided to give it a shot and ready for a big cultural change.
After a year of preparation I found my way to to go accros and still today thinking that was the best move I could have done seeing the results 7 years later.
I've been living under the Obama administration all my time here since we moved in mid 2009 and I spend the first two-three years to learn and adapt myself, big cultural change, on top of spending a lot of energy going through this old and conservator immigration path that was so painful (I was close to drop everything and go back to Europe)...well I fought, I worked hard, I continued to adapt myself and I was able to offer to my family the precious permanent residency trophy.
Now was time to learn about the political aspect and what this powerful country was offering to his citizens and lawful aliens, first reaction was a shock, seeing changes and new rule application that was at the opposite from what Obama claims during his campaign, kind of what we are used in western Europe, hearing a lot of "bla-bla-bla" and then nothing happen, and same old apply if not the worst...
During the entire second term of Obama I paid close attention to many aspect of the political and economy and how U.S. was engaging themself into the international scene, well.....nothing bright for sure.

Obamacare? Lmao for those abroad think that was the most brilliant change from Obama administration, what they don't see is for that exemple a vast majority that has been forced to take a health plan are actually paying the penalty fees that is less than a full year Premium. For those who can afford a health plan we are now facing the joy of the deductible, means if you are lucky to be in good health and just want to take care of yourself by having yearly medical visit you pretty much pay 100% of the medical bill, I'm not even talk about the pharmaceutic company that didn't refrain increasing the price. All this does is making the Insurance company to spend much less in bill reimbursement and grow much more money they can use in Wall Street and massively grow their own capital.
Trump's idea is opening competition throughout the whole country and give opportunity to each of us to battle for the lowest price without having the quality suffering (pretty much the same system that is in place with your car insurance, your cell phone provider, your home insurance....and many more)

Immigration? Lmao (again), E.U opened the door wide to the greatest massive immigration from the WWII and now facing all sort of issue, getting scare to get any place blown at any moment due to a massive increase of ISIS members that were smart to join the immigrant mass and almost get their free card to hide in Europe (Germany think that ISIS members joined secretly their army, France will now spend money to take care of immigrant rather than feeding his own people that face an unprecedent rate of un-employment), all that because E.U & NATO act without thinking to fight back ISIS into their own garden.
Trump's idea is not to deport everybody, but only those that cause damage to the country, several country in Europe dream about applying this but never really had the balls to do it, I guess I don't need to explain that anytime an unlawful person is in jail cost money and I hope that no one think that those bills are paid by nice donator, sorry folks but we are all paying for this...perhaps not having to pay for this and possibly have more money at the end of the month to spend for our family would be a more common sense?

Economy? How can you be a great President from any country and spend more money abroad to help others before spending that same money to help you own peeps? Yes I do understand that war brings jobs & money (ammunitions, weapons, missiles manufacturing and other such as defense vehicle) but hey! Is this bringing any positive outcome back? Does that money spend worth it? If you compare that to a privat security company that offer their service to protect anybody and that same company don't get pay for that, how long do you think this company will survive?

With all that said above, I'm not saying that electing Trump has been the best thing, however and when you try to play with the same system, over and over and nothing changes but only gets worth, why not taking the shot for a change?
It's funny to hear the fear of many people about the Nuke code.....really guys? You think that guy who is part of the richest man in the world will be that silly to take a chance to loose everything he has built?
He doesn't have any political experience, so what??? Does all those political people that went to the most expensive school were able to handle the country with the right manner? Just for recall, Obama wasn't known to be a great politic guy, he was put in place to prevent another civilian war between black & white communities....thought???? So now U.S. Elected another non-political guy but this one has at least a huge experience in business and knows how to make deal that bring money back to the country, knows the best way to spend less than getting return...Is that scary? To my opinion I don't see anything wrong in this deal.

Lastly and then I will shut my mouth :lol: , when I read this...

Go f*ck yourself america...


...it only re-enforce my thought that those people are so ignorant, they don't even realize they elected a President that was not only the worth clown ever in the political scene, but was able to drawn his own country into a threshold of poverty that make even Greece laughing loud...that also made myself surrending my passport from this country so embarrass I felt to possess this nationality.
Trump may not be the best candidat this country could have hope to get but hey, let's see first and then we would be able to criticize with fact ;)

Enjoy your day!
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Re: A tragic day

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:24 pm

Mad777 wrote:It amaze me to read from those who are not leaving here and think that they know this election will bring all that negativity that you all spoke about, really?
Does anyone possess a crystal ball that gives you the next 4 years forecast? Just for recall, none of the best analyst company from this country made a correct prediction since everybody was giving Clinton win from the Primary.
I'm gonna bring some real life exemple to explain why I think that Election can be only better than what we are use to since decades.

I'm born and raised in Switzerland (dual citizenship, swiss & french) and had a normal life like any other mid class kids with no excess, standard school program, mandatory military service, when time became that I have to pay my own bill I quickly became disgusted by the political system because I was just "young & ignorant"adult, so I packed my bag and move to the south of Spain (was getting tired of the winter time... :lol: ), oh boys, I discovered the hard way to live having to work like nothing I would imagine to gain just a little check, that check was barely enough to feed my family (met my wife and her 2 little kids down there :P ), well....E.U. Was suppose to be the best thing that ever happen in Europe :? ....wrong, wrong & wrong again, I faced momentum like all I've done prior had no impact here since all door closed for me to expect growing into this society and after 6 months and hundreds of jobs application I received 0 feedback (yeah zero, nada)....ok then, times to go back in the system I left that year before....but at least I learned that my previous job in Switzerland was perhaps a luck that I should be proud of and just move on....which I did.
Was then time to becomes like most of us think is the way to go, purchase my first home, for that I had to use again the E.U. card and move beyond the french border to be able to access an affordable home, I continued to focus in my job and gently climbed the ladder of the society to be well place and started to make good money, ok now what?
My job gave me opportunity to cross the pond and perhaps move to U.S. As I always wanted to work for that american company that make product I worked with in Switzerland and also because the headquarters were based in a sunshine place since I was really getting tired of the winter and seeing the E.U going to the wrong direction that will not offer any bright future to my kids (was back in 2008) we decided to give it a shot and ready for a big cultural change.
After a year of preparation I found my way to to go accros and still today thinking that was the best move I could have done seeing the results 7 years later.
I've been living under the Obama administration all my time here since we moved in mid 2009 and I spend the first two-three years to learn and adapt myself, big cultural change, on top of spending a lot of energy going through this old and conservator immigration path that was so painful (I was close to drop everything and go back to Europe)...well I fought, I worked hard, I continued to adapt myself and I was able to offer to my family the precious permanent residency trophy.
Now was time to learn about the political aspect and what this powerful country was offering to his citizens and lawful aliens, first reaction was a shock, seeing changes and new rule application that was at the opposite from what Obama claims during his campaign, kind of what we are used in western Europe, hearing a lot of "bla-bla-bla" and then nothing happen, and same old apply if not the worst...
During the entire second term of Obama I paid close attention to many aspect of the political and economy and how U.S. was engaging themself into the international scene, well.....nothing bright for sure.

Obamacare? Lmao for those abroad think that was the most brilliant change from Obama administration, what they don't see is for that exemple a vast majority that has been forced to take a health plan are actually paying the penalty fees that is less than a full year Premium. For those who can afford a health plan we are now facing the joy of the deductible, means if you are lucky to be in good health and just want to take care of yourself by having yearly medical visit you pretty much pay 100% of the medical bill, I'm not even talk about the pharmaceutic company that didn't refrain increasing the price. All this does is making the Insurance company to spend much less in bill reimbursement and grow much more money they can use in Wall Street and massively grow their own capital.
Trump's idea is opening competition throughout the whole country and give opportunity to each of us to battle for the lowest price without having the quality suffering (pretty much the same system that is in place with your car insurance, your cell phone provider, your home insurance....and many more)

Immigration? Lmao (again), E.U opened the door wide to the greatest massive immigration from the WWII and now facing all sort of issue, getting scare to get any place blown at any moment due to a massive increase of ISIS members that were smart to join the immigrant mass and almost get their free card to hide in Europe (Germany think that ISIS members joined secretly their army, France will now spend money to take care of immigrant rather than feeding his own people that face an unprecedent rate of un-employment), all that because E.U & NATO act without thinking to fight back ISIS into their own garden.
Trump's idea is not to deport everybody, but only those that cause damage to the country, several country in Europe dream about applying this but never really had the balls to do it, I guess I don't need to explain that anytime an unlawful person is in jail cost money and I hope that no one think that those bills are paid by nice donator, sorry folks but we are all paying for this...perhaps not having to pay for this and possibly have more money at the end of the month to spend for our family would be a more common sense?

Economy? How can you be a great President from any country and spend more money abroad to help others before spending that same money to help you own peeps? Yes I do understand that war brings jobs & money (ammunitions, weapons, missiles manufacturing and other such as defense vehicle) but hey! Is this bringing any positive outcome back? Does that money spend worth it? If you compare that to a privat security company that offer their service to protect anybody and that same company don't get pay for that, how long do you think this company will survive?

With all that said above, I'm not saying that electing Trump has been the best thing, however and when you try to play with the same system, over and over and nothing changes but only gets worth, why not taking the shot for a change?
It's funny to hear the fear of many people about the Nuke code.....really guys? You think that guy who is part of the richest man in the world will be that silly to take a chance to loose everything he has built?
He doesn't have any political experience, so what??? Does all those political people that went to the most expensive school were able to handle the country with the right manner? Just for recall, Obama wasn't known to be a great politic guy, he was put in place to prevent another civilian war between black & white communities....thought???? So now U.S. Elected another non-political guy but this one has at least a huge experience in business and knows how to make deal that bring money back to the country, knows the best way to spend less than getting return...Is that scary? To my opinion I don't see anything wrong in this deal.

Lastly and then I will shut my mouth :lol: , when I read this...

Go f*ck yourself america...


...it only re-enforce my thought that those people are so ignorant, they don't even realize they elected a President that was not only the worth clown ever in the political scene, but was able to drawn his own country into a threshold of poverty that make even Greece laughing loud...that also made myself surrending my passport from this country so embarrass I felt to possess this nationality.
Trump may not be the best candidat this country could have hope to get but hey, let's see first and then we would be able to criticize with fact ;)

Enjoy your day!


=D> =D> =D>
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Re: A tragic day

Postby mrswdk on Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:27 pm

I got bored hella quickly but am I correct that the tl;dr version is that people shouldn't freak out and let's wait to see what Trump is able to do?
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Postby 2dimes on Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:58 pm

Maybe, I read it in Yakov Smirnoff's voice, "America, what a country."
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Re: A tragic day

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:52 pm

The Dow Jones is up 1.5% net over the last 24 hours.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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Re: A tragic day

Postby Mad777 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:59 pm

saxitoxin wrote:The Dow Jones is up 1.5% net over the last 24 hours.


:lol: , remember what was said last night by the anaylist, professional and so on (again) that the stock market will fall down like hell seeing Trump leading the race....I guess they were wrong since it's already going back up after a little short hiccup. If Wall Street is not scare should we?

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Re: A tragic day

Postby xtratabasco on Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:00 pm

betiko wrote:This is a sad day for humanity... after the UK voting for the brexit, USA has chosen Trump. If in 2017 france votes Le Pen, it will be official... idiots are the majority. Uneducated fools who just want a change and are ok to try their own shit just to change.

Be ready to be really hated everywhere in the world americans. The W bush years were nothing compared to Trump.. I would recommend you to stay in your country now.. that sucks because if you travel that means you are a victim and not one of these asshat hillbillie trump voter.

Go f*ck yourself america. I am deeply disapointed by you.



buye buye \:D/ :lol:

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Re: A tragic day

Postby owenshooter on Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:05 pm

Serbia wrote:No, go f*ck yourself! My state is going to determine the election! Go Michigan! Michigan for King Maker! Yes! MY STATE! SUCK IT, WORLD!


too bad you threw your vote away...-Bj
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Re: A tragic day

Postby owenshooter on Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:06 pm

Mad777 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:The Dow Jones is up 1.5% net over the last 24 hours.


:lol: , remember what was said last night by the anaylist, professional and so on (again) that the stock market will fall down like hell seeing Trump leading the race....I guess they were wrong since it's already going back up after a little short hiccup. If Wall Street is not scare should we?

8-)

after falling 300pts... and the world markets are also depressed... learn how to read numbers... the only think worse than this post, is Serbia throwing his vote away in a state that actually mattered.-Bj
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Re: A tragic day

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:08 pm

owenshooter wrote:
Mad777 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:The Dow Jones is up 1.5% net over the last 24 hours.


:lol: , remember what was said last night by the anaylist, professional and so on (again) that the stock market will fall down like hell seeing Trump leading the race....I guess they were wrong since it's already going back up after a little short hiccup. If Wall Street is not scare should we?

8-)

after falling 300pts... and the world markets are also depressed... learn how to read numbers... the only think worse than this post, is Serbia throwing his vote away in a state that actually mattered.-Bj


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Re: A tragic day

Postby mrswdk on Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:44 pm

Dow Jones is at pretty much the highest it's been over the past few days and indeed is still at one of its highest levels ever over the past 5 years.

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Re: A tragic day

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:06 pm

owenshooter wrote:
Mad777 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:The Dow Jones is up 1.5% net over the last 24 hours.


:lol: , remember what was said last night by the anaylist, professional and so on (again) that the stock market will fall down like hell seeing Trump leading the race....I guess they were wrong since it's already going back up after a little short hiccup. If Wall Street is not scare should we?

8-)

after falling 300pts... and the world markets are also depressed... learn how to read numbers... the only think worse than this post, is Serbia throwing his vote away in a state that actually mattered.-Bj


"last 24 hours" = since 4 p.m. Election Day, 2 hours before the first polls closed

IOW, all loses have been fully recovered and there is a net improvement in the DJIA
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

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