Obama, Hilliary, or Mccain

[The Fuzzy Pengui]

for every measure on the economy Clinton's policy of increasing taxes on the rich kicks arse over Reagan's/Bush Snr's/Bush Jnr's policy of reducing taxes on the rich.

You don't think the rich are paying enough already? Look at taxes from this past year....the top 50 hedge fund managers from Enron combined paid more in taxes than the bottom 50% of tax paying American's combined.....yeah, sounds real fair to up it even more

I would also hazard to guess that they have more money than the bottom 50% of tax paying Americans...

This is true as well, but when you actually work hard for something (although now they are just upping gas prices to make more) then just because you make more than somebody else doesn't mean you should have to pay more just because you "can afford to have more taken out" for lack of better words.

[greenoaks]

This is true as well, but when you actually work hard for something (although now they are just upping gas prices to make more) then just because you make more than somebody else doesn't mean you should have to pay more just because you "can afford to have more taken out" for lack of better words.

are you suggesting the government work out how much money they will need, divide it by the number of citizens and send each of them a bill for $1,000, $2,000, $5,000 or whatever it works out to be ?

[The Fuzzy Pengui]

This is true as well, but when you actually work hard for something (although now they are just upping gas prices to make more) then just because you make more than somebody else doesn't mean you should have to pay more just because you "can afford to have more taken out" for lack of better words.

are you suggesting the government work out how much money they will need, divide it by the number of citizens and send each of them a bill for $1,000, $2,000, $5,000 or whatever it works out to be ?

no, not by any chance!

i just don't deem it fair they add taxes on to the richest people in our country just to make up for bad spending....it should be something more reasonable like spreading it out a little bit through all citizens (ie instead of raising it 5% for rich people, maybe %1 for everybody).

[Frigidus]

This is true as well, but when you actually work hard for something (although now they are just upping gas prices to make more) then just because you make more than somebody else doesn't mean you should have to pay more just because you "can afford to have more taken out" for lack of better words.

are you suggesting the government work out how much money they will need, divide it by the number of citizens and send each of them a bill for $1,000, $2,000, $5,000 or whatever it works out to be ?

The problem with overtaxing the rich is that when you take vast gobs of money away from people who make an above average amount of money you remove a lot of the incentive to make money in the first place. Taxes should be a straight percentage, perhaps with a slightly higher or lower percent for the extremely poor and extremely rich. That's only fair.

[War Dog]

yeah but we just had 8 years of republican president and look how that turned out. obama although is making a mistake on iraq so is hilliary.

they talk on withdrawing our troops but if we dont stablize the government there, catch osama bin ladin and make a police force there before we leave, the country will recess back to its orignal pre war state

Do you really think Osama is in Iraq? If so I don't believe you should be able to vote.

Although this is what our country has become... random people thinking that they have a right to vote, but refuse to do the necessary research in order to make a well informed decision, effectively turning it into a popularity contest, or whoever the best bullsh*tter gets the presidential nod.

All this could be alleviated by just enforcing a testing process before you are allowed to vote.

If I was forced to vote as is I suppose I would vote for McCain, as I am a republican and I think that is the best person to keep taxes low. Although I can give you a bit of trivia...

What two senators of the 110th congress have missed over 50% of their votes?






McCain missed 325 votes (58.5%) and
Tim Johnson D-SD missed 311 votes (55.9%)



Oh but it turns out that Sen. Johnson suffered a brain hemorrhage on Dec. 13, 2006, and spent several months recovering. Only recently returning to his seat.

No he is not in iraq he proably hiding in a cave in the mountains in afgan but my point remains we need to find him create a police force for the so we dont have to do all their work, then we make sure their government works . Then finally get the hell out of there

[War Dog]

i just found out since the beginning of the war to april 20, 2008 the us has "misplaced" 9 BILLION DOLLARS

[greenoaks]

you are living in fantasy land. supply side economics do not work.

Reagan proved that.
the economy shrank after he introduced the cuts by 2.2%. the worst since the great depression. the budget deficit blew out as a result.
Goerge Bush Snr proved that.
by the time he left office, the deficit since reagan was sworn in had jumped from $994 billion to $4.3 trillion in just 12 years.

Clinton proved that when he throw out the economic policies of his predecessors.
inflation dropped to 2.5% (averaged 4.7% under reagan/bush), economic growth jumped to 4.0% (averaged 2.8% under reagan/bush), 18 million new jobs (the highest level of job creation ever recorded) and turned the annual deficit of $290 billion into a $127 billion surplus.

for every measure on the economy Clinton's policy of increasing taxes on the rich kicks arse over Reagan's/Bush Snr's/Bush Jnr's policy of reducing taxes on the rich.

My example of reagans tax cuts were just to illustrate how lowered taxes could yeild higher tax revenues (which it did). The deficit grew because of reagans spending... Not because of the tax cuts.

the tax cuts did not increase revenue after adjusting for inflation.

Code: Select all

Tax Collections (billions)3

Year   Nominal    Constant (87 dollars)
1980   $517.1     728.1
1981    599.3     766.6
1982    617.8     738.2
1983    600.6     684.3
1984    666.6     730.4
1985    734.1     776.6
1986    769.1     790.0
1987    854.1     854.1
1988    909.0     877.3
1989    990.7     916.2
1990    1031.3    914.1
1991    1054.3    894.7
1992    1090.5    895.1

[jay_a2j]

None of the above.

oh rly sir.

how have you been

Not bad, thanks.


We have been given a "choice" between 3 less than stellar candidates. Whoever wins, doesn't matter...they will do what they are told to do or suffer the fate of JFK. Look how quickly Reagan "got on board" after he was shot. The sooner you realize that we don't live in a free country, the better off you'll be. It's almost here......

[spurgistan]

This is true as well, but when you actually work hard for something (although now they are just upping gas prices to make more) then just because you make more than somebody else doesn't mean you should have to pay more just because you "can afford to have more taken out" for lack of better words.

are you suggesting the government work out how much money they will need, divide it by the number of citizens and send each of them a bill for $1,000, $2,000, $5,000 or whatever it works out to be ?

The problem with overtaxing the rich is that when you take vast gobs of money away from people who make an above average amount of money you remove a lot of the incentive to make money in the first place. Taxes should be a straight percentage, perhaps with a slightly higher or lower percent for the extremely poor and extremely rich. That's only fair.

Fair would be if the system would reward everybody equally for doing hard work. Fair would be if the fact that I'm a male WASP didn't make my potential for a good life much, much higher than the average. Taxing workers and the people who make money off them at the same rate is not fair.

[Hologram]

I posted a pdf before (which was promptly criticized by btownmeggy for having models that were too long reaching) that essentially claimed that if the bush tax cuts were to continue, we would be forced to service our debt at a rate that even the US gdp would not be able to stand.

Part of sound fiscal policy is that if your going to cut taxes, you have to cut spending too...

Which part hasnt occurred during the current presidency...

That's because the last Republican presidents have more or less followed the policy of Reagan with the economy. Cut taxes and increase spending. Smart people...

[Frigidus]

None of the above.

oh rly sir.

how have you been

Not bad, thanks.


We have been given a "choice" between 3 less than stellar candidates. Whoever wins, doesn't matter...they will do what they are told to do or suffer the fate of JFK. Look how quickly Reagan "got on board" after he was shot. The sooner you realize that we don't live in a free country, the better off you'll be. It's almost here......

It's pretty obvious we aren't free. The thing is that we aren't going to get freedom by voting/protesting/anything allowed under the current system. When you guys are ready to storm Washington give me a call, but until then I'm going to stick to our semi-semi-annual popularity contests.

[Nobunaga]

First the Traditional Version of the story:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up
supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies
out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE STORY:
Be responsible for yourself!

The Modern Version:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with thegrasshopper, and everybody cries when they
sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.' Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has
gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer! The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary Clinton gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single parent welfare recipients.

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the
government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't work to maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Be very careful how you vote in 2008

... Thought this was cute.

[spurgistan]

Not sure I call class warfare "cute".

[Dancing Mustard]

It's pretty obvious we aren't free. The thing is that we aren't going to get freedom by voting/protesting/anything allowed under the current system. When you guys are ready to storm Washington give me a call, but until then I'm going to stick to our semi-semi-annual popularity contests.

Ron Paul!
Ron Paul, Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul. Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul? Ron Paul.
Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul!!!!! Ron Paul Ron Paul, Ron Paul Ron Paul, Ron Paul . Ron Paul; Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul! Ron Paul Ron Paul Ron Paul.

Ron Paul?
Ron Paul.

RRRRRRRon Paul!!!!!

[suggs]

so, during my intensive course of therapy at the "Rent a slogan/we'll f*ck with your head but you'll get frequent flyer miles" facility in Old Sarum, Englandshire, i was told to face up the facts,and get honest.
so-break it to me guys-d'ya REALLY think Hilary will shag me senseless if she wins?I'm beginning to have doubts...

[got tonkaed]

so, during my intensive course of therapy at the "Rent a slogan/we'll f*ck with your head but you'll get frequent flyer miles" facility in Old Sarum, Englandshire, i was told to face up the facts,and get honest.
so-break it to me guys-d'ya REALLY think Hilary will shag me senseless if she wins?I'm beginning to have doubts...

for what its worth...she has been on the record as claiming she will be there for you to answer the phone at 3 am, should you call...

[suggs]

I'll take that as a yes. YIPPEE! Power sex hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[PLAYER57832]

Almost ANYONE but Bush!

[suggs]

Almost ANYONE but Bush!

Funny, thats exactly the opposite of my guiding principle.

[bedub1]

First the Traditional Version of the story:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up
supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies
out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE STORY:
Be responsible for yourself!

The Modern Version:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with thegrasshopper, and everybody cries when they
sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.' Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has
gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer! The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary Clinton gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single parent welfare recipients.

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the
government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't work to maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Be very careful how you vote in 2008

... Thought this was cute.

Absolutely Fantastic! This is why I believe in survival of the fittest...if the grasshopper is a jackass like that....it should just die. Power to those who take responsibility!

[Dancing Mustard]

Sorry, but I can't help but notice that the revamped 'Ant Vs Grasshopper' tale contains several extremely strong hints towards the fact that the Grasshopper represents a black man.

Is the revamped tale really intended to push the '"lazy people get a free ride in todays world" angle? Or is it really trying to say "black people are lazy, and they're getting a free ride in todays world" while masquerading as the former?

[DRoZ]

Sorry, but I can't help but notice that the revamped 'Ant Vs Grasshopper' tale contains several extremely strong hints towards the fact that the Grasshopper represents a black man.

Is the revamped tale really intended to push the '"lazy people get a free ride in todays world" angle? Or is it really trying to say "black people are lazy, and they're getting a free ride in todays world" while masquerading as the former?

Not really several hints, just the one about jesse jackson, seeing as how he typically defends black people. Other than that it could represent a lazy person of any color.

[InkL0sed]

It sounded pretty Social Darwinist to me

[bedub1]

The grasshopper could have saved himself. Instead he choose not to. He choose to play and frolic instead of preparing for the winter. The result of his choice, and inaction, is his death.

My opinion, if you aren't going to help yourself, them I'm not going to help you either. And if I am going to help you, I'm not going to give you a fish, I'm going to teach you to fish.

Sorry, but I can't help but notice that the revamped 'Ant Vs Grasshopper' tale contains several extremely strong hints towards the fact that the Grasshopper represents a black man.

Is the revamped tale really intended to push the '"lazy people get a free ride in todays world" angle? Or is it really trying to say "black people are lazy, and they're getting a free ride in todays world" while masquerading as the former?

Stop trying to turn a story about personal responsibility into a race issue.

[reminisco]

that story is prejudicial and racially loaded.

what people fail to realise is that the condition of the poor in america, especially that of poor black americans, is that it ALWAYS begins as "winter".

there is no fucking "summer".

and right there, the entire story falls apart, because it assumes everyone starts with a level playing field.