When is a fact a fact?

[Ditocoaf]

God can be a fact and will be. God becomes a FACT the moment a person dies. Until then we must have FAITH.

Ah? Then it's not a fact.

Oh it's a fact, just one many have not come to accept yet.

You know, I envy you... You get to be smug in the certainty that when we die, we'll find out we're wrong. But we're stuck with being certain that you'll be wrong your entire life, and never find out.

So jay, I'm curious--I don't want to start a whole thread about this, but I'd like you to answer offhand... do you believe that if a person is selfless and kind, and always tries to do what will cause the least suffering in the world, but does not believe in God or follow his commandments that aren't already covered by the golden rule... do you think that such a person would go to hell?

A man is not saved by works but by the grace of God. "He who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" "Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved" "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
Without Jesus we can not avoid hell.

Ah, so I'm going to hell, then... hmm. So you're the type who enjoys arguing with people, knowing that if they continue to disagree with you, they'll pay for it in eternal hellfire. While I respect most faithful people, cocky assholes like you I cannot stand. And I have a feeling that if you're right, you're going to hell too.

Are you done ranting? Seriously you have to wonder why people get so defensive?

Ignoring for a second the incredible irony in the "done ranting" statement, let's answer the "get so defensive" statement:
You're someone who is telling us that we're wrong to base our beliefs on what we can perceive and deduce. You're telling us, in fact, that because we do so, we're going to Hell. There are two possible responses to someone who tells you that you're going to Hell (unless, of course, you are a bad person and know it). First, you can ignore the asshole/lunatic. Second, you can "get defensive" by trying to point out what an asshole/lunatic the person is. This being an internet forum; nobody's going to ignore anything.

[DAZMCFC]

To understand the importance of facts and faith: Imagine a blind man at a swimming pool. He goes to the diving board and climbs up the 15' ladder to the diving board. Once there he gets on the diving board. At this point he remembers that he didn't check the temperature of the water before he walked up. If indeed there is any water in the pool at all!

Now he had checked the water the previous day and the people at the facility generally maintain the facility quite well so he is confident that the water would not be too cold seeing that it wasn't too cold the other day, but it might have been possible someone drained the pool during the night.

Whether there is water in the pool is not per se a fact. There may be water in the pool or there may not be water in the pool. At this point he can't verify if there is water in the pool or not. Given the general evidence he could be confident in an assumption that there is water in the pool but that is hardly a "fact." There either is water in the pool or not, there is a fact we just don't know what that fact is. In the absence of solid proof some degree of faith must take over. That doesn't mean to say that if the person doesn't believe there is water in the pool and jumps off he will crash into an empy pool. (As juan implied by suggesting that if he doesn't believe in hell he can't go there.)

now it is percieved that a blind persons hearing is better than someone who can see. their other senses are heightened, right. so as he is walking up to the pool he will be abale to hear if anyone is in the pool swimming. if he can not hear anyone all he has to do when on the diving board is piss into the pool. if he hears his piss making a waterfall sound whilst entering the pool, jobs a good 'un and he can dive in. if he here's jack shit, then he should climb down.

[PLAYER57832]

I think JAY and PLAYER should just have a 'best of five' battle. It seems the best way to settle disputes on CC. And the loser can admit that they don't know a fact from a lie. And that their interpretation of the Bible is all wrong. Deal-eo?

I'll select the fifth map, and settings. If it comes to that.



(Watch out though, PLAYER is a killer, trust me.)

Although the humor in me agrees, I think jay and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

About one thing I think we do agree ... the church disgarded the whole "trial by water/fire/etc" long ago

[Ditocoaf]

Oh it's a fact, just one many have not come to accept yet.

You know, I envy you... You get to be smug in the certainty that when we die, we'll find out we're wrong. But we're stuck with being certain that you'll be wrong your entire life, and never find out.

So jay, I'm curious--I don't want to start a whole thread about this, but I'd like you to answer offhand... do you believe that if a person is selfless and kind, and always tries to do what will cause the least suffering in the world, but does not believe in God or follow his commandments that aren't already covered by the golden rule... do you think that such a person would go to hell?

A man is not saved by works but by the grace of God. "He who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" "Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved" "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
Without Jesus we can not avoid hell.

Ah, so I'm going to hell, then... hmm. So you're the type who enjoys arguing with people, knowing that if they continue to disagree with you, they'll pay for it in eternal hellfire. While I respect most faithful people, cocky assholes like you I cannot stand. And I have a feeling that if you're right, you're going to hell too.

So... did I shut you up, or are you just too busy?