thoughts on Afghanistan

[mpjh]

None of the so-called reports on soldiers being skinned alive are first hand reports, and none are confirmed by the military. These reports are simply lies.

Even if it were true it wouldn't make a difference in how I veiw the war. And truth is the first casualty of war.
I just don't see how we can invade a country for profit and then cry when they don't follow the rules of war.
At any rate though, it just doesn't feel truthful.

I was referring to another thread actually, in which he tried to claim Roman Catholicism had a sola fidei position and so was directly responsible for burning 5 million witches, and so was an obvious evil.

That number seems outrageously high.

The only action older than demonizing the enemy is prostitution.

True that.

Eloquently said, Juan.

[brooksieb]

None of the so-called reports on soldiers being skinned alive are first hand reports, and none are confirmed by the military. These reports are simply lies.

Read the 1st post on this page, it bears some truth.

[mpjh]

There is no truth to the allegation that the Taliban skins our troops alive.

[Napoleon Ier]

There is no truth to the allegation that the Taliban skins our troops alive.

There's evidence to suggest they have. It isn't by any means certain, but a few (first hand) reports from our RPIMa and REP at any rate suggest that some French military dead were found naked with skin partially removed.

There is definite and concrete evidence that the Taliban have skinned people alive during their struggle to get to power after Soviet withdrawal, some of which is compiled in Ahmed Rashid's book on them, "Taliban: Islam, Oil and the New Great Game in Central Asia".

[mpjh]

There is absolutely no evidence that the Taliban ever skinned any of our troops alive.

[Napoleon Ier]

There is absolutely no evidence that the Taliban ever skinned any of our troops alive.

Well... there is, brooksie and I just presented it. Saying that there isn't over and over again isn't going to change that fact.

Or are going to be refuse to be baited into a "round robin" of productive debate in which you know you'll be shown up and humiliated in a way that'd make Ted Haggard blush?

[mpjh]

Sorry, you have presented absolutely no evidence that our troops have been skinned alive by the Taliban.

[Neoteny]

Or are going to be refuse to be baited into a "round robin" of productive debate in which you know you'll be shown up and humiliated in a way that'd make Ted Haggard blush?

I could never tell if that was the humiliation or the meth...

[joecoolfrog]

There were certainly many reports of Soviet soldiers being skinned, true or not it put the fear of God into them as I remember. I wouldnt however single the Taliban ( or any other group ) out as particularly guilty of commiting atrocities, in the last 50 years every group from Christian through Atheist have been guilty of acts beyond belief.

[brooksieb]

There were certainly many reports of Soviet soldiers being skinned, true or not it put the fear of God into them as I remember. I wouldnt however single the Taliban ( or any other group ) out as particularly guilty of commiting atrocities, in the last 50 years every group from Christian through Atheist have been guilty of acts beyond belief.

QFT, thanks for being rational.

[Napoleon Ier]

Sorry you have no evidence that the Taliban ever skinned any of our troops alive.

No, I really have. The RPIMa/REP reports from the Uzbin Valley incident, and British intelligence gathering in August 2008.

Combine that with the numerous and fairly uncontroversial reports from various times before the coalition troops invaded, and you have established precedent for this sort of thing happening, which does certainly constitute, if not an uncontroversial fact, a body of evidence.

[Johnny Rockets]

Our country needs to keep its hands out of other countries problems. We are not the arbiters of what is "evil" in the world; nor are we the moral police of the world. If individuals in other countries are committing crimes against humanity, we have a world court to deal with that, if the US wasn't too chickenshit to sign on the to court treaty.

We are cowards against evil in the world because we are the greatest perpetrator of evil deeds.

Your country certainly does.

Mine has been fighting the good fight on a day one basis since WWI.
Not exercising gunboat diplomacy in the name of Manifest Destiny, greed and profits.

World Court? Don't speak on international issues, or start global topics with naive and unrealistic outlooks. Like the world court has done ANY preventive measures on the issues of genocide? Ever???

Peace keeping is a Canadian concept, and Excuse me? Moral Police?
Ethnic slaughter, gender oppression, the fermentation of hate is not a question of Moral Policing. It's a question of protecting the innocent and the weak.


J

[got tonkaed]

JR: While i do not disagree in any way with your final conclusion, id hastily pose that there are far too many lenses from which to view the very basic right and wrong (people have argued plenty about which ones are the best of course) and the greater issue that its just too resource intensive for people to be willing to engage on long-winded moral policing campaigns. This i believe especially holds true in nations where war weariness isnt seen in primarly negative terms. Now one can say that this is a bad thing or even just an unfortunate thing, but i dont think it changes the simple point that leading nations wont start protecting the poor and the weak any time soon.

[mpjh]

I don't understand, I don't recall any Canadian troops (ahem peacekeepers) being present in Darfur, Gaza, Nigeria, or Columbia.

[brooksieb]

I don't understand, I don't recall any Canadian troops (ahem peacekeepers) being present in Darfur, Gaza, Nigeria, or Columbia.

Well they're definately in Columbia, Duh.....

[got tonkaed]

I don't understand, I don't recall any Canadian troops (ahem peacekeepers) being present in Darfur, Gaza, Nigeria, or Columbia.

Current Canadian international deployments (at least from last month)

http://www.comfec-cefcom.forces.gc.ca/pa-ap/ops/index-eng.asp

my poor maths account for somewhere between 50-75 troops deployed in humanitarian aid missions. Contrasted to the main arc of the military Afghanistan, where 2750 troops appear to be currently authorized. According to the site, there are around 24,000 available members of armed forces personnel who could be called upon. Im not entirely sure how this jives with the 55,000 that appears on the wiki article which is apparently from the armed forces size ranker list from who knows where (Canada is around the 50's in size).

[mpjh]

I don't see any in Darfur, Gaza, Columbia or Nigeria.

[brooksieb]

I don't see any in Darfur, Gaza, Columbia or Nigeria.

Well they're definately in Columbia, Duh.....

[got tonkaed]

I don't see any in Darfur, Gaza, Columbia or Nigeria.

I believe the 35 troops posted in the SAFARI mission comes from the UN peacekeeping mission related to Darfur from 2005, if im not mistaken.

[mpjh]

Canada has a number of troops in UN missions in Sudan related to the Darfur situation. They are there with the permission of the government in Sudan. They are not there to overthrow the government, or to stop the raids that are forcing people into concentration camps.

While this is commendable work, it is not going to stop, and has not stopped, the killing of innocents.

As far as I can see Canada only acts with the permission of the host government, with the exceptions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and can be booted any time it directly challenges that government.

[Johnny Rockets]

We do what we can, where we can.

But we do, Do.

And your right Tonkaed. Not anytime soon.

J

[mpjh]

And when you are asked. Nothing wrong with that. Much better than interfering with another country's affairs against their government's objection, which is the only thing I spoke aout against. Thanks

[Napoleon Ier]

I wish America would liberate us again.

[mccallan25]

There is absolutely no evidence that the Taliban ever skinned any of our troops alive.

Unfortunately there are some things that just do not get released for whatever reason. Go chat with an SF soldier sometime and I bet he might after 4 drinks or 5 might tell you if he has seen such a thing. Hell in Vietnam the cong use to cut our balls and more off and stuff them in our mouths.

Why bother disputing something over and over when the fact remains you don't know. My sons (9 tours between them) have told me some stories that brought tears to their eyes and mine over a bottle of scotch. You sir have never been to war I am certain.

...and to put my 3 cents in... I absolutely think we should have went in to Dafour as any sane person but then again there is no exit strategy there either, nor ever could be.

[mpjh]

Demonizing the enemy is time-worn and boring. Demonizing the enemy while drunk is even more common.

I am a veteran and have experienced war, and I stay sober these days.