Twildo Leaving?

[icedagger]

Not sure why everyone's so harsh on Twill. I think he does an excellent job as community manager. It's just like any job really - the blue collars will be out to get the white collars. All the mod's do an outstanding job with this site. I mean really, for free.. come on.

I thought he was paid, although I guess it's mere peanuts compared to the approx $1 million he saves the site a year

[Rocketry]

That's right folks - our self styled big nurse in the cuckoo's nest is moving on to bigger and better things. * * wipes tear from eye * * Whatever shall we do? Oh, and no, i wouldn't think about repeating that nasty rumor about AIDs.


Mums the word.
Honibaz

does that mean wicked can come back?

Rocket.

[Optimus Prime]

That's right folks - our self styled big nurse in the cuckoo's nest is moving on to bigger and better things. * * wipes tear from eye * * Whatever shall we do? Oh, and no, i wouldn't think about repeating that nasty rumor about AIDs.


Mums the word.
Honibaz

does that mean wicked can come back?

Rocket.

I seriously doubt it.

[RjBeals]

Not sure why everyone's so harsh on Twill. I think he does an excellent job as community manager. It's just like any job really - the blue collars will be out to get the white collars. All the mod's do an outstanding job with this site. I mean really, for free.. come on.

You have something brown on your nose.

[b.k. barunt]

Not sure why everyone's so harsh on Twill. I think he does an excellent job as community manager. It's just like any job really - the blue collars will be out to get the white collars. All the mod's do an outstanding job with this site. I mean really, for free.. come on.

You have something brown on your nose.

Looks like shit to me.
I've been without internet access (got it now though) out here in the Louisiana stix, and don't know some of the newer mods, but we have mods like Clapper, who interact with the community and try to be fair, while on the other hand we have nepotistic appointees like "nightstrike" who are glorified hall monitors that love to flout their authority.

Twildo was the worst. He would, as in the case of wicked, order the mods to come down hard in the forums, and then bemoan their actions when the community said WTF? I've been a union officer in the past - doing my best to rip the nuts off management scum like twildo (that's right Rj, going after the "white collars", you brown nosing twat), and he was typical of the management flunkies who kiss ass to those above and shit on those beneath. I say good riddance.


Honibaz

[RjBeals]

Sorry you feel that way BK. I guess I know Twilldo on a more personal level, and he comes across different to me. I also pretty much keep to the map foundry, which is pretty tame for the most part. I guess haven't been in the same boat as others.

[clapper011]

Not sure why everyone's so harsh on Twill. I think he does an excellent job as community manager. It's just like any job really - the blue collars will be out to get the white collars. All the mod's do an outstanding job with this site. I mean really, for free.. come on.

You have something brown on your nose.

Looks like shit to me.
I've been without internet access (got it now though) out here in the Louisiana stix, and don't know some of the newer mods, but we have mods like Clapper, who interact with the community and try to be fair, while on the other hand we have nepotistic appointees like "nightstrike" who are glorified hall monitors that love to flout their authority.

Twildo was the worst. He would, as in the case of wicked, order the mods to come down hard in the forums, and then bemoan their actions when the community said WTF? I've been a union officer in the past - doing my best to rip the nuts off management scum like twildo (that's right Rj, going after the "white collars", you brown nosing twat), and he was typical of the management flunkies who kiss ass to those above and shit on those beneath. I say good riddance.


Honibaz

I know how you feel about twill and a few others hunny..but please be careful with your words and keep flaming to flame wars

[The1exile]

Hate to break it to you, but there is a limit on how much time you can ask someone to give of their own volition when it is only volunteer work and not an actual job.

What kind of limit? Moral limit? Legal limit?

How do you know those people were not offered positions because there was a good reason not to? Simply because someone is recommended by their peers does not mean they are a proper fit to do the work.

According to moderators who are not standing up to the rigours of the system they're supposed to run, yes. I hate to preach democracy, but when forum regulars and moderators come to verbal sparring over what the right way to do things is, weeding out some of the best talent that this place had to offer (suggs, wicked, DM, Norse being banned, never mind the many others who've departed out of sheer apathy for this place) is not going to improve the quality of the forums, and resorting now to an all too wordy "maybe it's both our faults... let's form a committee and see if we can't discuss it..." type response - no. What any forum needs is a well liked moderator (or team of moderators) well involved with their community, and the best way to go about it is not to apply your own biases as to who is fitted for the job, but to listen to the rumbling of the majority and who they naturally turn to. It worked excellently for wicked on all fronts, when she was around, and the same goes for Wacicha in GD, and as I mentioned before, maps has more or less flourished (slightly less well because of professional rivalry, I suspect, but that goes with the territory). The same approach was never approached in FW, and clapper was shoehorned into the job here in off topics - she did a workmanlike job of it, but the truth is, before being a mod, she wasn't seen much in these parts, and so didn't grasp the nuances of forum culture as well as should perhaps have been done.

[pimpdave]

I know how you feel about twill and a few others hunny..but please be careful with your words and keep flaming to flame wars

See, this is a great example of good moderating. Clapper understands the other person's position, but she must enforce the rules.

How often do people flagrantly try to disobey Clapper, or slip something past her? I don't know, but I'd guess not many. Or, how many people actively try to harass Clapper?

Ask the same question, but with Twill in her place.

It's completely different management techniques, but I get the feeling Clapper knows the entire Machiavelli quote, "It is best to be both loved and feared, but if one must choose, it is better to be feared than loved."

Clapper has managed to keep order in this forum, at least, with that kind of dedication to being both loved and feared. We know she has power over us, but she doesn't want to have to use it unless absolutely necessary.

On the flip side, managing only with fear leads to abuses of power, animosity, and an environment of "us vs. them". Sure, Twill can be very personable and professional in private, but seems to either relish his image of being feared/hated in the forums or brushes it off as being the fault of everyone else.

I think the best solution would be to promote Clapper to Twill's position, and keep Twill on (a clearly conscientious and loyal member of Team CC) in a role more similar to Clapper's current one, assuming he'd accept it. That would help set the tone for the forums as a whole, and the influence of a leader like Clapper would permeate through the ranks of the other mods.

Of course, these are all just my musings in an idealized hypothetical situation. And I'm not writing this to suggest only Clapper would be a suitable replacement for Twill, but rather someone with her M.O. Who even knows? Maybe she's too busy with her own life to step up. But I honestly do think the community would be more cohesive, less abrasive, and easier to moderate for the moderators if such a philosophy of command was followed.


EDIT: Maybe I shouldn't have made this post, as some people might get upset by it, but please understand I write these words with the best of intentions. There are a lot of things to like about Twill, but I do honestly disagree with his philosophy of command. Hopefully, he'll come to learn a new way of doing things and will find himself both respected (as we can all tell he wants to be) and liked. So, please take all of this as constructive criticism, not whining or brown nosing.

[nagerous]

Perhaps you should read the post above..

Pretty sure clapper is well liked, she moderates well in my opinion.

Sure, Norse probably should have been banned, but some of his other decisions, I'm less sure about, particularly the Skittles! ban.

[nagerous]

Edit: It appears, the post before me was deleted.. that was in response to OP btw.

[Fruitcake]

....Clapper understands the other person's position, but she must enforce the rules

That little sweetie Clapper can enforce the rules with me any time she wishes

[TheProwler]

Not sure why everyone's so harsh on Twill. I think he does an excellent job as community manager. It's just like any job really - the blue collars will be out to get the white collars. All the mod's do an outstanding job with this site. I mean really, for free.. come on.

You have something brown on your nose.

Looks like shit to me.
I've been without internet access (got it now though) out here in the Louisiana stix, and don't know some of the newer mods, but we have mods like Clapper, who interact with the community and try to be fair, while on the other hand we have nepotistic appointees like "nightstrike" who are glorified hall monitors that love to flout their authority.

Twildo was the worst. He would, as in the case of wicked, order the mods to come down hard in the forums, and then bemoan their actions when the community said WTF? I've been a union officer in the past - doing my best to rip the nuts off management scum like twildo (that's right Rj, going after the "white collars", you brown nosing twat), and he was typical of the management flunkies who kiss ass to those above and shit on those beneath. I say good riddance.


Honibaz

I know how you feel about twill and a few others hunny..but please be careful with your words and keep flaming to flame wars

Thanks clapper.

Someone has to keep control of those who have a hard time controlling themselves.

[F1fth]

Didn't Twill ban an entire clan because one of the user's avatars was in the clan banner?

[Simon Viavant]

I'm not making judgments about Hyasri either way.

But I can't say I approve as Optimus Prime taking over Twill's position as head of the mods.

Still, any change is an improvement.

Can we appeal some permabannings now?

[Timminz]

How do you know those people were not offered positions because there was a good reason not to? Simply because someone is recommended by their peers does not mean they are a proper fit to do the work.

According to moderators who are not standing up to the rigours of the system they're supposed to run, yes. I hate to preach democracy, but...

When are people going to get it through their heads that this is a business, not a democracy. No self-respecting business owner or manager hires someone based on any sort of democratic process. No one has any rights here. We have privileges. If someone is barred from their local supermarket for calling the produce manager an asshole, or pissing in the coffee isle, their rights are not being trampled, they're simply losing the privilege of shopping there, and the same thing applies here. Anyone who pisses off the management enough, is going to find that they have fewer privileges than the rest of us.

[KoolBak]

lmao....beautifully written!

By the way, the cat is out of the bag - it is now posted in ANNOUNCEMENTS ;o)

[Juan_Bottom]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80047

It's true.

I owe you an apology BK. I thought that you were just messing with everyone. I'm sorry.

[oVo]

CLEANUP ON AISLE THREE!
someone's been pissing on the coffee... again.

[clapper011]

*potty training needed at aisle three...again!*

[Timminz]

CLEANUP ON AISLE THREE!
someone's been pissing on the coffee... again.

Someone's been keeping the eggs too close to the coffee.

[Neoteny]

How do you know those people were not offered positions because there was a good reason not to? Simply because someone is recommended by their peers does not mean they are a proper fit to do the work.

According to moderators who are not standing up to the rigours of the system they're supposed to run, yes. I hate to preach democracy, but...

When are people going to get it through their heads that this is a business, not a democracy. No self-respecting business owner or manager hires someone based on any sort of democratic process. No one has any rights here. We have privileges. If someone is barred from their local supermarket for calling the produce manager an asshole, or pissing in the coffee isle, their rights are not being trampled, they're simply losing the privilege of shopping there, and the same thing applies here. Anyone who pisses off the management enough, is going to find that they have fewer privileges than the rest of us.

You're a bit self-righteous, and also wrong.

1) I've seen many successful businesses hire through some form of democratic process. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Anyhow, that statement about self-respecting business owners is wrong.

2) Your bit about pissing in the supermarket aisle is correct, but only to a point. It's a bad analogy. Nobody has a problem with Twill's upholding of CC rules, it's generally the lack of transparency and consistency that are bemoaned. If you pee in the supermarket every day right in front of the manager, and he just throws you out randomly, it's a bit hard to be appreciative, and is just bad management.

[Timminz]

How do you know those people were not offered positions because there was a good reason not to? Simply because someone is recommended by their peers does not mean they are a proper fit to do the work.

According to moderators who are not standing up to the rigours of the system they're supposed to run, yes. I hate to preach democracy, but...

When are people going to get it through their heads that this is a business, not a democracy. No self-respecting business owner or manager hires someone based on any sort of democratic process. No one has any rights here. We have privileges. If someone is barred from their local supermarket for calling the produce manager an asshole, or pissing in the coffee isle, their rights are not being trampled, they're simply losing the privilege of shopping there, and the same thing applies here. Anyone who pisses off the management enough, is going to find that they have fewer privileges than the rest of us.

You're a bit self-righteous, and also wrong.

1) I've seen many successful businesses hire through some form of democratic process. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Anyhow, that statement about self-respecting business owners is wrong.

2) Your bit about pissing in the supermarket aisle is correct, but only to a point. It's a bad analogy. Nobody has a problem with Twill's upholding of CC rules, it's generally the lack of transparency and consistency that are bemoaned. If you pee in the supermarket every day right in front of the manager, and he just throws you out randomly, it's a bit hard to be appreciative, and is just bad management.

You're right in that I went a bit strong on hyperbole in the first bit, and perhaps my analogy wasn't exact, but my points remain. None of us have any rights on CC. Those that think they do, tend to be more than "a bit self-righteous" about it. As far as the analogy of pissing every day goes, I think I agree with you, in that they shouldn't be so lenient with repeat offenders, but the "pissers" shouldn't act so surprised when they finally get banned from the "store".

[The1exile]

When are people going to get it through their heads that this is a business, not a democracy.

And we're trying to give tips on how to make it a better, more consumer-friendly business. There's no need to take the exasperated tone; if your argument isn't convincing people, try reshaping it.

No self-respecting business owner or manager hires someone based on any sort of democratic process.

But they do reward or reprimand workers based on customer feedback. if you go to your coffee place and the person servning you is friendly and you can have a decent chat with, you're better disposed towards the place, and more likely to bring your custom to it again. If they're a grunting arsehole who responds to all your orders with scorn, you're likely not to. Similar situation applies here - you take the people that your target market as a whole like, and everyone is happy. Utilitarianism at its best.

No one has any rights here. We have privileges. If someone is barred from their local supermarket for calling the produce manager an asshole, or pissing in the coffee isle, their rights are not being trampled, they're simply losing the privilege of shopping there, and the same thing applies here. Anyone who pisses off the management enough, is going to find that they have fewer privileges than the rest of us.

But what the management takes umbrage at can be considered different shades of acceptable. If you want to set up a corner shop but bar most people from coming into it, then yes, you can do that. Your prospective customers have no rights, after all. But it is undeniably a bad business model, if you can't justify blocking those people to the public.

[oVo]

I'm in favor of the dramatic process.

if you choose to have a pissing contest... please stay away from the coffee.