4th Great Awakening in American History

[Frigidus]

Health care isn't a desire, therefore it must be an "individual right"

Absolutely.

Nobody but a barbarian or a mediaeval serf would argue that it wasn't a fundamental human right. Are you a serf?

I mean, unless of course you're just a NWO-Puppet who wants to deny the population healthcare in order to render them weak and helpless, making your conquest of them even simpler when the 'time' comes.

No one is denied healthcare in the US. This is not a "right". I don't remember reading, "Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness AND affordable healthcare"


Generation Y- the entitlement generation.

But death due to lack of health insurance removes the life part from the equation.

Baby Boomers - brainwashed by Cold War propaganda to associate anything that strays from capitalism as evil. Socialism! Socialism bad!

[PLAYER57832]

Clarifying individual rights, versus desires.. yes.

"Clarifying individual rights, versus desires"

Health care isn't a desire, therefore it must be an "individual right". Yeah maybe, if you're a SOCIALIST!

I did not say either, I said it is what society is deciding right now.

[PLAYER57832]

Health care isn't a desire, therefore it must be an "individual right"

Absolutely.

Nobody but a barbarian or a mediaeval serf would argue that it wasn't a fundamental human right. Are you a serf?

I mean, unless of course you're just a NWO-Puppet who wants to deny the population healthcare in order to render them weak and helpless, making your conquest of them even simpler when the 'time' comes.

No one is denied healthcare in the US. This is not a "right". I don't remember reading, "Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness AND affordable healthcare"


Generation Y- the entitlement generation.

But death due to lack of health insurance removes the life part from the equation.

Baby Boomers - brainwashed by Cold War propaganda to associate anything that strays from capitalism as evil. Socialism! Socialism bad!

The term "socialized medicine" was invented by the AMA to counter Truman's proposals to nationalize healthcare. Initially, he wanted to cover everyone, but it was easier to start with seniors... voila we have medicare.

[MrWainthrope]

No one is denied healthcare in the US. This is not a "right". I don't remember reading, "Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness AND affordable healthcare"

But death due to lack of health insurance removes the life part from the equation.

Baby Boomers - brainwashed by Cold War propaganda to associate anything that strays from capitalism as evil. Socialism! Socialism bad!

Lol! Pwnt!


So funny to see Neo-Cons trying to find all of their rights on the back of dollar-bill.


Baby-Boomers: The Sheeple Generation

[jay_a2j]

No one is denied healthcare in the US. This is not a "right". I don't remember reading, "Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness AND affordable healthcare"

But death due to lack of health insurance removes the life part from the equation.

Baby Boomers - brainwashed by Cold War propaganda to associate anything that strays from capitalism as evil. Socialism! Socialism bad!

Lol! Pwnt!


So funny to see Neo-Cons trying to find all of their rights on the back of dollar-bill.


Baby-Boomers: The Sheeple Generation

I find my "rights" in the Bill of Rights. Not what I want, when I want. Your rights end when they effect someone else.

FYI My parents were the baby-boom generation. I am part of generation X. Yes, it seems that each generation gets worse.

[MrWainthrope]

I find my "rights" in the Bill of Rights.

Lol. Sheep.

Wake up! Why do you need 'the man' to tell you what your rights are? Use your common-sense for once. Stop being a serf and start living like a man.

Have you ever even heard of ethics? Are you a Christian? Stop letting THE STATE kill your fellow Americans. Stop being a mindless herd animal and start thinking for yourself.

If you're a shill for the big private healthcare barons, then you're an accomplice to their crimes. Rich fat men in high-rise New York towers are laughing at YOU right now and thanking you for helping them stay rich while ordinary hard-working people die in the streets. You're one of their unthinking drone-servants 'Jay', and it's people like you who have helped them to keep America in bondage for so long.

[jay_a2j]

I find my "rights" in the Bill of Rights.

Lol. Sheep.

Wake up! Why do you need 'the man' to tell you what your rights are? Use your common-sense for once. Stop being a serf and start living like a man.

Have you ever even heard of ethics? Are you a Christian? Stop letting THE STATE kill your fellow Americans. Stop being a mindless herd animal and start thinking for yourself.

If you're a shill for the big private healthcare barons, then you're an accomplice to their crimes. Rich fat men in high-rise New York towers are laughing at YOU right now and thanking you for helping them stay rich while ordinary hard-working people die in the streets. You're one of their unthinking drone-servants 'Jay', and it's people like you who have helped them to keep America in bondage for so long.

Wow, if anyone is a "herd animal" I'd be you. The left, whom you seem to align yourself with, have duped you! They have succeeded in making you HATE the rich. They have convinced you that all men should have equal income regardless of how hard they work, or how much they don't. I believe in people. That we all were born with an even playing field, and if YOU don't make good choices, YOU reap what YOU sow!


STOP looking for handouts! Get a job.

[Nobunaga]

I find my "rights" in the Bill of Rights.

Lol. Sheep.

Wake up! Why do you need 'the man' to tell you what your rights are? Use your common-sense for once. Stop being a serf and start living like a man.

Have you ever even heard of ethics? Are you a Christian? Stop letting THE STATE kill your fellow Americans. Stop being a mindless herd animal and start thinking for yourself.

If you're a shill for the big private healthcare barons, then you're an accomplice to their crimes. Rich fat men in high-rise New York towers are laughing at YOU right now and thanking you for [b]helping them stay rich while ordinary hard-working people die in the streets[/b]. You're one of their unthinking drone-servants 'Jay', and it's people like you who have helped them to keep America in bondage for so long.

...

... You're new here, man, so that's a good excuse, but... This kind of blanket, cartoonish generalization just won't fly without cited examples. This is just so much WTO protest trash talk that isn't backed up or thought through.

... What fat rich guys? Who are they killing and how are they killing? Who is dying in the streets? What are they dying from?

... Details, man. You'll get it, just hang out for a while and you'll get it.

... Unless of course you're a multi-troll ressurection of the recently banned... which wouldn't surprise me.

...

[khazalid]

i cant believe i just read through all 4 pages of this crap. i think i need to lie down

[MrWainthrope]

if anyone is a "herd animal" I'd be you.

Ha ha!

Look at poor 'Jay' the sheep. "I'd be you" he says, desperate to clump together with someone and be just like them.

Sorry Jay, but I walk alone. You'll need to find your own path (or else just keep plodding along with all the other serfs and vassals that you've banded together with).

The left, whom you seem to align yourself with

Sheepy sheepy sheep.

LEFT! RIGHT! LEFT! RIGHT! All you can see are groups and clusters... because you are a herd animal by nature and cannot conceive of an individual. How sad for you.

They have succeeded in making you HATE the rich.

I don't 'hate' the rich (no matter how hard you try to put words in my mouth). But I do refuse to work for them if I don't have to.

You on the other hand seem happy to bow down in the dirt to them and to become their serf. "Here" you say "take all this money from me, then give me crap treatment and/or deny it to me if you feel like it! I'm happy to pay you millions of dollars just to redeem my basic human rights".

Lol. Nice one 'drone boy'. Maybe next year you'll be dancing in the streets because you have to pay a private company 'word insurance' to claim your freedom of speech from them.

Baaaa! Baaaa! Back to the herd you shuffle!

They have convinced you that all men should have equal income regardless of how hard they work, or how much they don't.

lol lol lol.

You realise you are losing so you fall back on regular herd-tactics and try to call me a communist (even though I am clearly not).

Are you sure you're not a baby-boomer? Because that shit is OLD.

we all were born with an even playing field

HA HA HA!!!

Good one comedian! Keep believing those rich-men lies!

Sure, the crippled kid born in a rural Idaho village, the poor kid born in a Detroit slum, and the kid born into a New York banking-dynasty who gets given $3 Million for his first birthday are all born onto an 'even playing field'.

Lol. Could you BE more of a sheep? How do they get you guys to swallow all these lies? When did you become so brainwashed?

YOU reap what YOU sow!

Wrong.

YOU believe THEIR bullshit.

Bow down to your corporate overlords 'Jay'. Keep paying them money to keep your human rights. Keep paying them to feed you shit. Then crawl back to the rest of the herd and try to pretend that you're not just another sheep.

[Nobunaga]

... We need to introduce you to PLAYER. You guys will get on swimmingly.

...

[PLAYER57832]

Nice to meet you, MrWainthrope.

[PLAYER57832]

Health care isn't a desire, therefore it must be an "individual right"

Absolutely.

Nobody but a barbarian or a mediaeval serf would argue that it wasn't a fundamental human right. Are you a serf?

I mean, unless of course you're just a NWO-Puppet who wants to deny the population healthcare in order to render them weak and helpless, making your conquest of them even simpler when the 'time' comes.

No one is denied healthcare in the US. This is not a "right". I don't remember reading, "Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness AND affordable healthcare"


Generation Y- the entitlement generation.

Of course, I have made it clear that I think universal health care is CHEAPER and more beneficial to all. You like to conveniently ignore the CHEAPER part ... particularly cheaper for small businesses. AND you grossly exaggerate problems in other countries' systems while glossing over the problems in our system.

You can call me socialistic, but I, quite frankly, feel claiming that not everyone has the basic right to reasonable healthcare is plain unchristian! And, deny it all you like, but forcing people to go bankrupt when their child gets sick ... the very REAL situation right now, and I can name 2 examples just among my local friends. I can also point to 10 people who lost their jobs, not so much because their illnesses prevented them from working, but because insurance for them would be too expensive. I can point to several others who have gone on disability, not so much because they were not capable of finding some job somewhere (not their old job, not one in their old industry, but a job), but because they else could not afford healthcare. I can also point to several DOZEN single women, just that I know of in our small community who cite a main reason why they cannot take better jobs for a bit more pay is that they would lose free medical care for their children. Several of those who work in my husband's old plant were quite careful to make sure their incomes stayed below the level that would allow them to collect benefits for their families. Two issues there.. one, they qualified, while we did not ONLY because they were covered by CHIP prior to beginning work with my husband. Second, my husband wound up racking in tons of overtime because they (also in maintenance) simply would not answer their phones. Easy to do when celll service is as erratic as it was here and, well, people do leave their houses to do things, eh...

ALL of those people wound up on US, the TAXPAYER! Universal protection puts us all on the same page, eliminates this disparity that sees those working for some companies getting wonderful care (at least until their insurance cuts the ties), those who manage to stay below certain levels AND who's employer offers no insurance (or who had Medicaid/CHIP before they took the job) to be covered and leaves the overwhelming majority of Americans either with no insurance, insurance so poor it really does not protect them financially OR with the illusion that they have decent care (I say illusion, because insurance companies have the perfect legal right to drop anyone or plain deny claims for the most spurious of reasons.... read your policies if you don't believe me).

The FACTS are that this is not about protecting individuals or doctors. It is about protecting insurance companies. And, sorry, while I am in NO WAY generally against companies taking a profit, for Blue Cross to take millions while fighting with me for 2 YEARS over piddly 30, $40 and even a couple hundred dollar claims ... making me field, while pregnant, while having pregnancy issues, calls from collection agents and various others.... NO, I have very good reason to be quite angry. I cannot prove it. No one knows for sure, but I lost 2 children during that time. Not fetuses, not "blobs", children. Stress is a HUGE factor. Blue Cross and Blue shield put me through that simply to TRY and save themselves a few dollars. They put the doctors through it as well, becuase the doctors had to forgoe payement. And, you know what? In the end EVERY ONE was found to be legitimately covered. I had to fight a MINIMUM of 3 months for EACH claim, but in the end, it was "gee... yes, I guess you are covered".

So, you want to call me a socialist.. fine. I call anyone who thinks our current system works, who thinks we can in ANY WAY trust the insurance companies either blind, intentionally ignorant or plain stupid.

[Roger Dodger]

Actually, no where in the constitution does it say healthcare for all. socialized healthcare is rediculous. I think that those folks that have healthcare should be allowed to keep it and, the small percentage of people that do not have it should get it but, for emergencies not for BS things like cosmetic surgery , lyposuction blah blah blah.

if you go to a hospital. they don't deny you care. who says you gotta pay the bill. lots of folks go to the hospital and don't pay. duh.

this president is going to kill this country. it is bad enough that he bad mouths this country and its' people every chance he gets.

can't wait til he is out of office and the rest of the suckup politicians that are working on this bill.

he can't even get the cash for clunkers program working right. imagine our health.

jeez.

[PLAYER57832]

Actually, no where in the constitution does it say healthcare for all. socialized healthcare is rediculous. I think that those folks that have healthcare should be allowed to keep it and, the small percentage of people that do not have it should get it but, for emergencies not for BS things like cosmetic surgery , lyposuction blah blah blah.

if you go to a hospital. they don't deny you care. who says you gotta pay the bill. lots of folks go to the hospital and don't pay. duh.

this president is going to kill this country. it is bad enough that he bad mouths this country and its' people every chance he gets.

can't wait til he is out of office and the rest of the suckup politicians that are working on this bill.

he can't even get the cash for clunkers program working right. imagine our health.

Read my post, it crossed yours.

Hospitals might not turn away a bleeding patient, but they absolutely do cut corners, DO deny care to anything not an absolute emergency and DO "dump" patients in various ways.

Who pays for this? In reality, it is you and I, with our taxes. We already HAVE socialized healthcare. Its just the most expensive type imagninable.

OH, and per the "cash for clunkers" crack.. actually it worked exceedingly well, though I am not going to argue the plan itself was wonderful, it was passed by Congress, not just Obama.

You want to see what healthcare in other countries is REALLY like?

Try following the link in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95081


jeez.[/quote]

[Roger Dodger]

well, i agree the taxpayers are the ones to flip the bill for deadbeats.

i think the congress sucks as does this President. I hope someone comes up with a candidate that is worth a damn in 2012 because this past election was so pitiful it almost made me cry.

socializing medicine even more will only make matter worst. I know exactly what hospitals do to patients that don't pay. i also know if they are troublesome enough they tend to get what they want.
As a paying customer I know I def. don't get my monies worth.

cash for clunkers for foreign cars. that is what worked. GM did poorly on this deal. As did some of the dealers.

[PLAYER57832]

well, i agree the taxpayers are the ones to flip the bill for deadbeats.

i think the congress sucks as does this President. I hope someone comes up with a candidate that is worth a damn in 2012 because this past election was so pitiful it almost made me cry.

socializing medicine even more will only make matter worst.

#1 the bill is not going to be socialized medicine. Per Obama's speech, even the public option will be gone.

#2. Even if it were fully socialize medicine, what makes you think it will be so bad? Have you looked at countries where they do have various types of semi-government and fully government insurance?

#3. its not just, as you term them "deadbeats" its hard working folks who get sick and get foisted onto the public system because insurance companies cannot make a big enough profit. Get sick and, unless you are independently wealthy or lucky enough to not get dropped, it could well be you. Oh, and you can also include Medicare (which most seniors like a lot).

I know exactly what hospitals do to patients that don't pay. i also know if they are troublesome enough they tend to get what they want.
As a paying customer I know I def. don't get my monies worth.

Paying customer? So you pay cash, are capable of paying cash if you get in a very serious accident, develop cancer, or even a chronic condition like diabetes or high blood pressure?


If not, then you are really dependent upon insurance companies... and they will drop you like a stone at the first chance, perhaps even forcing your employer to fire you to remove you from the insurance rolls, if you work for a big company. Of course, that "won't be the reason"... but you will find it a strange cooindidence that the same behaviors that were OK before suddenly are not OK after you cost their insurance company mega bucks (or just show that potential).

cash for clunkers for foreign cars. that is what worked. GM did poorly on this deal. As did some of the dealers.

I already said I don't like cash for clunkers, but to call it inefficient would mean it was not doing what it was intended to do. It did what is was supposed to.. I just think the goals were poor.

[jay_a2j]

Oh so much to respond to and so little time......


Healthcare should be enjoyed by all but it's not a "right". We live (well currently anyways) in a capitalist society. This is good because it allows for competition and free choice. A society that is run by the government is a BAD thing. It eliminates competition and choice. I fear PLAYER may get her wish, that the government will control every aspect of our lives. See, call me crazy, but I believe in limited government. How much of your life are you willing to hand over? Because the government won't mind taking it all.


What is that called when a government controls the banks, industry (car manufacturers), and healthcare? Oh the slippery road to communism. Who is the President of the United States when he can tell a company to fire it's CEO? It ain't America, that's for sure. America is dying, and you are getting in the way of those people trying to give it CPR.


I have no doubt that if our founding fathers could see this country today they would be extreamly disappointed. But you go ahead and continue holding your signs and shaking your fists that "We demand government take care of us!" And you'll soon get it.

[MrWainthrope]

Healthcare should be enjoyed by all but it's not a "right".

What kind of Kool-Aid did they feed you?!

"Everybody should enjoy free speech, but it is not a right"... see how stupid that sounds? That's how stupid you sound.

Wake up! Stop letting 'The Man' dictate what your rights are to you. Stop paying them to lie to you.

We all have the right to life. We all have the right to healthcare. Being born poor shouldn't sentence you to death. The only people who want that are the rich bankers... unless you're one of them, then you're living as a slave.

DON'T KEEP BEING A SERF!!!

A society that is run by the government is a BAD thing.

HA HA!!

Again, you try to put words into my mouth. Again, you fight the straw-man that your corporate overlords have taught you to fight. Again, you behave like a sheep, shambling like a zombie to the rhythmn of your herd.

Wakey wakey 'Jay'. It's time to stop repeating catchphrases and time to start thinking for yourself for once.

the government will control every aspect of our lives.

Run Jay! Run!

Run from the bogey-man that doesn't exist! Scream in terror at the Orwellian Nightmare that nobody here is arguing for! Live in eternal fear of the ghosts and hobgoblins that your Banker Masters have taught you to fear!

Every time you repeat their lies you are doing them a service. Everybody at DAVOS is laughing at you for perpetuating their filthy lies. THEY HAVE DUPED YOU. You are just another Wal-Mart Greeter, spreading their propaganda and blindly ushering in the emprie of the NWO, kept in bondage by your fear of the phantasms that your Banker-Kings have lied to you about.

I wonder if you will love them so much when they have your head beneath their boots, 'Jay'.

How much of your life are you willing to hand over?

A lot less than you seem desperate to hand over to the faceless Billionaires who rule you from DAVOS.

It's funny; watching you squawk and scream that we're the ones handing over our lives, when actually it is US who are trying to take the power back from those who oppress us. It's just a shame that there are sheep like YOU who are desperate to keep them in control.

Maybe you're just too scared to rule yourself?

America is dying

...and sheep like you are rejoicing. Because your corporate overlords told you to, and you believed all of their lies.

Keep dancing 'Jay'. The party is going to be so much funner once they finally control everything and we have no vote.

All hail the new overlords, The Dollar Lords and their brainwashed vassals. Isn't it great that they've finally arrived, 'Jay' has been waiting for them his whole life.

I have no doubt that if our founding fathers could see this country today they would be extreamly disappointed.

"How?" they would say "How did ignorant fools like Jay let our once-great nation get taken hostage by evil corporations. When did people like him stop thinking for themselves and start worshipping at the altars of corporate greed. When did they stop believing in democracy and accountability and start dreaming of feudalism and dollar-rule?"

If they saw you, 'Jay', then you'd make them sick.

[Titanic]

Oh so much to respond to and so little time......


Healthcare should be enjoyed by all but it's not a "right". We live (well currently anyways) in a capitalist society. This is good because it allows for competition and free choice. A society that is run by the government is a BAD thing. It eliminates competition and choice. I fear PLAYER may get her wish, that the government will control every aspect of our lives. See, call me crazy, but I believe in limited government. How much of your life are you willing to hand over? Because the government won't mind taking it all.


What is that called when a government controls the banks, industry (car manufacturers), and healthcare? Oh the slippery road to communism. Who is the President of the United States when he can tell a company to fire it's CEO? It ain't America, that's for sure. America is dying, and you are getting in the way of those people trying to give it CPR.


I have no doubt that if our founding fathers could see this country today they would be extreamly disappointed. But you go ahead and continue holding your signs and shaking your fists that "We demand government take care of us!" And you'll soon get it.

Government controls the police and fire service, should we privatise those? Let the free market decide whose house is worth saving, or whose life worth protecting? No one wants the government to decide everything in our life, your just exaggerating and trying to fear monger. Stick to the fact if you want a debate.

The government controls SOME of the banks and car manufacturers because they sucked. The free market clearly didnt work for them because they were tens of billion of dollars in debt and needed to be ailed out. The government didn take them over because its wants to control the economy, it took them over to SAVE the economy. He can sack the CEO because they had to pay $20b into the business so the government deserves a say in what going on, especially as that CEO has clearly shown hes incompetent because he was he one who got them into that mess.

Stop trying to bring the founding father into this. No one knows what they will think, and I don't really want any moral lessons from some rich white slave owners.

[Phatscotty]

The free market clearly didnt work for them because they were tens of billion of dollars in debt and needed to be ailed out.

are you retarded? you think we have 100% free market???? the only reason free market has failed is because socialism has overtaken it! LMAO man there is reading between the lines and then there is reading black and white. The more time that has gone by, the more socialist entitlement programs and polices have chipped away at the free market. Gov't reports in 2003 put the USA economy at 50% free market, 50% gov't controled, and true "MIXED ECONOMY". So when gov't control hits 51%, that is the only reason the free market has failed. Socialism is killing it! DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[jay_a2j]

Blah blah blah

I'm just trying to figure out which banned multi this is?


Freedom of speech is a right! Healthcare is not.

Should we all have the right to own a car? A 52" flat screen TV? How about the right to marry our siblings?

I'm done wasting my time on you. Good day.

[MrWainthrope]

Ha ha!

What's the matter 'Jay'? Run out of spoon-fed catchphrases to respond with? Do you need to run back to New York for new instructions?

Why not stay and fight the good fight? If you're so right, then why can't you win?

Why are you running away serf-boy?

Freedom of speech is a right! Healthcare is not.

Wrong.

Freedom of speech is a right. Healthcare is a right.

Open your eyes. Stop swallowing the lies.

We have lots of rights, you have lots of rights: basic healthcare is one of them.

Should we all have the right to own a car? A 52" flat screen TV? How about the right to marry our siblings?

What do you think 'Jay'?

Why don't you answer for yourself? Haven't your Banker Masters given you pre-scripted replies to those questions yet?

LOL AT U!!!

I'm done wasting my time on you. Good day.

Jay, Jay, runs away. Lives to grovel and shill another day.

See you next time. Bootlicker.

[Frigidus]

Man, jay getting called a sheep...the world is all upside down.

[Titanic]

The free market clearly didnt work for them because they were tens of billion of dollars in debt and needed to be ailed out.

are you retarded? you think we have 100% free market???? the only reason free market has failed is because socialism has overtaken it! LMAO man there is reading between the lines and then there is reading black and white. The more time that has gone by, the more socialist entitlement programs and polices have chipped away at the free market. Gov't reports in 2003 put the USA economy at 50% free market, 50% gov't controled, and true "MIXED ECONOMY". So when gov't control hits 51%, that is the only reason the free market has failed. Socialism is killing it!

Of course, the problem was that the market wasn't free enough. Thats why the banks fcked up the economy and ran off billionaires, because the market wasnt free enough. Thats why GM made shitty cars for years on end, because the market wasn free enough. Thats why healthcare providers throw people out on the street, because the market isnt free enough.

Your a first class joke Scotty, learn some real facts rather then stupid soundbites.