Logic dictates that there is a God!

[jay_a2j]

Because I believe with no doubt whatsoever that the Bible is the inspired word of God. God told us about angels. He told us about demons. He told us that he created man from the dust of the earth and woman from man's rib. He told us that he created the birds of the air, the fish in the sea and the creatures walking the earth. Now it just seems to me that if there was intelligent life out there (other than God) He would have told us.


but thats my opinion.

What about the giants in the earth or the nephilim? I guess you could say that the nephilim were angels, but then there would be decendants of angels and men.

Genesis 6:4

My bibles footnote on that verse says "The nephilim or "giants" were probably people of great influance. In humanity's eyes they were "heroes of old, men of renoun"

There were some tall (giant) people... Goliath comes to mind. I'm not sure if Angels have the ability to reproduce or not. But I don't think nephilim = angels.

[Pilate]

jay now nswer me this


IF AN ALL-FORGIVING GOD TRUELY DOES EXIST whick I highly doubt

Why do people go to hell

BECAUSE IN THEORY THERE IS NO HELL AS GOD FORGIVES EVERYONE

Answer that CHRIST-WORSHIPPER-WHO-WORSHIPS-GODS-WHICH-DON'T-EXIST Jaj_a2j

People go to hell because "all have sinned" and without recieving Christ's free gift there can be no forgiveness of sin.

OT Jews sacrificed "spotless" lambs and sheep for remission of sin. (There can not be forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood) Jesus came to be the "final sacrifice" for man to recieve forgiveness of sin (so we don't have to sacrifice lambs and sheep anymore) It is available to ALL who believe...JN 3:16" For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"


Jesus did pay the price for our sin.... but we have to RECIEVE it. It is a misconception that Jesus died for everyone's sins so we all automatically go to heaven.


I've never heard the term "all forgiving". He wants to forgive everyone but you have to ask Him. And when you accept Christ ALL your sins are forgiven to that point.

Unless you're a Muslim or Jewish or Pagan or etc.

The blood of Christ was given for ALL men. If you come to Christ you would not continue following someone else. But muslum,jew even atheists can believe (although that would make them a former muslim and former atheist)

Sounds like you proved his point

The word CHRISTIAN means follower of Christ..... If you become a christian obviously you wouldn't be following mohamed or a "non-God". Just as christians who convert to islam don't continue to follow Jesus.

That's not the same as ALL men, which is what you claim.

[TitusFinn]

Probably...but no one knows for sure.

[jay_a2j]

jay now nswer me this


IF AN ALL-FORGIVING GOD TRUELY DOES EXIST whick I highly doubt

Why do people go to hell

BECAUSE IN THEORY THERE IS NO HELL AS GOD FORGIVES EVERYONE

Answer that CHRIST-WORSHIPPER-WHO-WORSHIPS-GODS-WHICH-DON'T-EXIST Jaj_a2j

People go to hell because "all have sinned" and without recieving Christ's free gift there can be no forgiveness of sin.

OT Jews sacrificed "spotless" lambs and sheep for remission of sin. (There can not be forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood) Jesus came to be the "final sacrifice" for man to recieve forgiveness of sin (so we don't have to sacrifice lambs and sheep anymore) It is available to ALL who believe...JN 3:16" For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"


Jesus did pay the price for our sin.... but we have to RECIEVE it. It is a misconception that Jesus died for everyone's sins so we all automatically go to heaven.


I've never heard the term "all forgiving". He wants to forgive everyone but you have to ask Him. And when you accept Christ ALL your sins are forgiven to that point.

Unless you're a Muslim or Jewish or Pagan or etc.

The blood of Christ was given for ALL men. If you come to Christ you would not continue following someone else. But muslum,jew even atheists can believe (although that would make them a former muslim and former atheist)

Sounds like you proved his point

The word CHRISTIAN means follower of Christ..... If you become a christian obviously you wouldn't be following mohamed or a "non-God". Just as christians who convert to islam don't continue to follow Jesus.

That's not the same as ALL men, which is what you claim.

It IS offered to all men! If you are a meat eater and become a vegetarian you can not go and eat meat and call yourself a "vegetarian".


What I think YOU are getting at is can a mulsim CONTINUE to believe what he believes AND be a Christain. The answer is no. Muslims see Jesus as "a prophet" nothing more. Jesus said, "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father but through me"


Jesus said there is NO other way...not mohamed, not yoga, not atheism, not confucious.... There is no other way to God.

[Pilate]

jay now nswer me this


IF AN ALL-FORGIVING GOD TRUELY DOES EXIST whick I highly doubt

Why do people go to hell

BECAUSE IN THEORY THERE IS NO HELL AS GOD FORGIVES EVERYONE

Answer that CHRIST-WORSHIPPER-WHO-WORSHIPS-GODS-WHICH-DON'T-EXIST Jaj_a2j

People go to hell because "all have sinned" and without recieving Christ's free gift there can be no forgiveness of sin.

OT Jews sacrificed "spotless" lambs and sheep for remission of sin. (There can not be forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood) Jesus came to be the "final sacrifice" for man to recieve forgiveness of sin (so we don't have to sacrifice lambs and sheep anymore) It is available to ALL who believe...JN 3:16" For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"


Jesus did pay the price for our sin.... but we have to RECIEVE it. It is a misconception that Jesus died for everyone's sins so we all automatically go to heaven.


I've never heard the term "all forgiving". He wants to forgive everyone but you have to ask Him. And when you accept Christ ALL your sins are forgiven to that point.

Unless you're a Muslim or Jewish or Pagan or etc.

The blood of Christ was given for ALL men. If you come to Christ you would not continue following someone else. But muslum,jew even atheists can believe (although that would make them a former muslim and former atheist)

Sounds like you proved his point

The word CHRISTIAN means follower of Christ..... If you become a christian obviously you wouldn't be following mohamed or a "non-God". Just as christians who convert to islam don't continue to follow Jesus.

That's not the same as ALL men, which is what you claim.

It IS offered to all men! If you are a meat eater and become a vegetarian you can not go and eat meat and call yourself a "vegetarian".


What I think YOU are getting at is can a mulsim CONTINUE to believe what he believes AND be a Christain. The answer is no. Muslims see Jesus as "a prophet" nothing more. Jesus said, "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father but through me"


Jesus said there is NO other way...not mohamed, not yoga, not atheism, not confucious.... There is no other way to God.

Ah. It's okay if you are "
Unless you're a Muslim or Jewish or Pagan".

You just have to renounce those beliefs. It's not as open as you make it seem. There are strings attached.

[jay_a2j]

Jesus was (is) a Jew. If fisherman A says, "I have caught the biggest fish" and Fisherman B says "no, I have the biggest fish" and fisherman C says, "You are both mistaken, it is I who has the biggest fish". All 3 fisherman can not be right. Only 1 of the 3 fishermen has the biggest fish. So it is with religion. They all claim to have the way to God yet only one can be true. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me".

[Pilate]

Jesus was (is) a Jew. If fisherman A says, "I have caught the biggest fish" and Fisherman B says "no, I have the biggest fish" and fisherman C says, "You are both mistaken, it is I who has the biggest fish". All 3 fisherman can not be right. Only 1 of the 3 fishermen has the biggest fish. So it is with religion. They all claim to have the way to God yet only one can be true. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me".

You shouldn't claim that he gives salvation to all people when that isn't true. Simple as that

[jay_a2j]

Jesus was (is) a Jew. If fisherman A says, "I have caught the biggest fish" and Fisherman B says "no, I have the biggest fish" and fisherman C says, "You are both mistaken, it is I who has the biggest fish". All 3 fisherman can not be right. Only 1 of the 3 fishermen has the biggest fish. So it is with religion. They all claim to have the way to God yet only one can be true. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me".

You shouldn't claim that he gives salvation to all people when that isn't true. Simple as that

It is OFFERED to all people! Its not a free pass so everybody goes to heaven! You must have faith and believe Jesus is who he claimed to be!


In short...those covered with the blood of Jesus have been cleansed of sin and can therefore live with God in Heaven.

[Pilate]

Jesus was (is) a Jew. If fisherman A says, "I have caught the biggest fish" and Fisherman B says "no, I have the biggest fish" and fisherman C says, "You are both mistaken, it is I who has the biggest fish". All 3 fisherman can not be right. Only 1 of the 3 fishermen has the biggest fish. So it is with religion. They all claim to have the way to God yet only one can be true. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me".

You shouldn't claim that he gives salvation to all people when that isn't true. Simple as that

It is OFFERED to all people! Its not a free pass so everybody goes to heaven! You must have faith and believe Jesus is who he claimed to be!


In short...those covered with the blood of Jesus have been cleansed of sin and can therefore live with God in Heaven.

lololo,

this reminds of the south park episode where all those people were in hell.

The protestant didn't make it to heaven. Neither did anyone else.

The correct faith was the Mormans.
Just exposes the fallacy of people who claim that they have the "real truth"

[morph]

wow... its still not dead...

[vtmarik]

Right, so the Bible is without flaw and true because The Bible says that the Bible is true...

That's the kind of logic you stop following around the age of 8 or 9. You know ... that first moment when your mom said something, her basis for it was "because I said so," and you felt that it wasn't a good enough explanation. Remember that?

And on another note Jay, what happens if we do meet space aliens who are as intelligent as/more intelligent than us? What will you say about your precious scripture then?

Ok aliens, now is the time.

[reverend_kyle]

Right, so the Bible is without flaw and true because The Bible says that the Bible is true...

That's the kind of logic you stop following around the age of 8 or 9. You know ... that first moment when your mom said something, her basis for it was "because I said so," and you felt that it wasn't a good enough explanation. Remember that?

And on another note Jay, what happens if we do meet space aliens who are as intelligent as/more intelligent than us? What will you say about your precious scripture then?

Ok aliens, now is the time.

Mormon religion believes in aliens...

[reverend_kyle]

Jesus was (is) a Jew. If fisherman A says, "I have caught the biggest fish" and Fisherman B says "no, I have the biggest fish" and fisherman C says, "You are both mistaken, it is I who has the biggest fish". All 3 fisherman can not be right. Only 1 of the 3 fishermen has the biggest fish. So it is with religion. They all claim to have the way to God yet only one can be true. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me".

You shouldn't claim that he gives salvation to all people when that isn't true. Simple as that

It is OFFERED to all people! Its not a free pass so everybody goes to heaven! You must have faith and believe Jesus is who he claimed to be!


In short...those covered with the blood of Jesus have been cleansed of sin and can therefore live with God in Heaven.

lololo,

this reminds of the south park episode where all those people were in hell.

The protestant didn't make it to heaven. Neither did anyone else.

The correct faith was the Mormans.
Just exposes the fallacy of people who claim that they have the "real truth"

I thought that too... I didnt want him trying to illegitimize my point by it being southpark....

though its almost as ridiculous as the bible....

[DRoZ]

jay now nswer me this


IF AN ALL-FORGIVING GOD TRUELY DOES EXIST whick I highly doubt

Why do people go to hell

BECAUSE IN THEORY THERE IS NO HELL AS GOD FORGIVES EVERYONE

Answer that CHRIST-WORSHIPPER-WHO-WORSHIPS-GODS-WHICH-DON'T-EXIST Jaj_a2j

now I know that this question was directed at jay but God is an all-loving God, he forgives everyone if they come to Him but he doesn't just forgive them if they don't repent. Now let's get into why people go to hell ... it's because they sin, now sin is something that hurts either the person who committed the sin or others around the sin or both, now what kind of god would God be if he didnt punish those who hurt his people, thats like not punishing your child if he/she hits his/her sibling and causes her pain, would you just sit back and let that happen or would you punish the child, same thing goes here.

[jay_a2j]

Right, so the Bible is without flaw and true because The Bible says that the Bible is true...

That's the kind of logic you stop following around the age of 8 or 9. You know ... that first moment when your mom said something, her basis for it was "because I said so," and you felt that it wasn't a good enough explanation. Remember that?

And on another note Jay, what happens if we do meet space aliens who are as intelligent as/more intelligent than us? What will you say about your precious scripture then?

Ok aliens, now is the time.

marik... The Bible isn't just a bunch of words. It is the "living word". It changes lives. Now if a person does not accept scripture as "Gods word" then debating Christianity is pointless. Because I believe it is the first step to having faith. If a person does not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, that person can not know who God is. Its not a "the Bible says so" so I believe it on blind faith thing. The Bible validates itself. But if one does not believe that, the "God" debate will just go around in circles.

And on another note Jay, what happens if we do meet space aliens who are as intelligent as/more intelligent than us?

In a word...... RUN!


Seriously though, go ahead and wait for this to occur.

[vtmarik]

marik... The Bible isn't just a bunch of words. It is the "living word". It changes lives. Now if a person does not accept scripture as "Gods word" then debating Christianity is pointless. Because I believe it is the first step to having faith. If a person does not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, that person can not know who God is. Its not a "the Bible says so" so I believe it on blind faith thing. The Bible validates itself. But if one does not believe that, the "God" debate will just go around in circles.

Will you stop putting words in my mouth? I never said that the Bible was "just words." I understand that people like you cling to this Bible like it was a life preserver in the ocean. I also understand that there is more to God than is written down in that book of yours. The Bible cannot be truly verified because we don't have any of the original manuscripts, we only have copies upon copies.

In a word...... RUN!


Seriously though, go ahead and wait for this to occur.

It's no less likely than your great nuclear holocaust.

And how's about this for a wacky theory. What if God is an alien? Think about it! Any technology that would allow a man to heal the sick, walk on water, and feed a multitude with 5 loaves and 2 fishes would surely appear as miraculous to 1st century people. Jesus could've been a robot.

Sure, it's insane to think so, but what if it were true? What will you do when you're staring your God right in the face as he walks out of his spacecraft?

Me? I'm gonna be making reservations at a fondue restaurant for him, his entourage, myself, and my client.

EDIT: [Aside to the audience] Now watch as he scoots away from this belief since it's insane, while bolstering his own argument by mentioning God, the Bible, and/or salvation.

[qeee1]

I'm going to post here momentarily to get my theological groove back on.

1 question:

Why should one believe the Bible given:

A) It was written by man
B) It was extensively edited by man
C) There is no proof anywhere that it in its entirity is true.

You can say The Bible validates itself, how by being consistant with itself? That's not a proof.

You say you have to have faith, but what is faith but belief in something without any reason to believe in it? That's idiotic at best, and damn dangerous at its worst.

[Sammy gags]

this is ridiculous, ppl saying god exists & that he doesnt, none of u know. I wouldnt read the bible & believe it 100%. The Bible is a book full of metaphors & morals that we should all follow & live by 2 make the world a better place. Remember that the Bible was written by other ppl, it is not something that was here before us. & as for Jesus, it is more likely that he was an advanced lifeform from another planet than a son of somebody who created everything.

[DRoZ]

A) Although man is fallible, the work of that man does not necessarily have to contain error, given that the bible claims to have been divinely inspired it is within reason to assume that it could be an infallible work.

B) What edit's are you referring to? There were many translations and a few additions and maybe some subtractions(of the theory of the church not allowing some books into the bible) but I'm not sure of any direct edit's.

C) There is no proof that any creation/evolution etc. theory is entirely true.

and who said anything about faith.

[qeee1]

A) Although man is fallible, the work of that man does not necessarily have to contain error, given that the bible claims to have been divinely inspired it is within reason to assume that it could be an infallible work.

B) What edit's are you referring to? There were many translations and a few additions and maybe some subtractions(of the theory of the church not allowing some books into the bible) but I'm not sure of any direct edit's.

C) There is no proof that any creation/evolution etc. theory is entirely true.

and who said anything about faith.

A) It could be infallible yes, but so much has been written by man, what makes the bible special, aside from the fact it says so itself? Many other books do that.
B) I was referring to additions and subtractions, which more or less amounts to editing.
C) Who said anything about creation/evolution? Still there are strong strong indicators that the evolutionary theory is true (see stuff like "Without evolution nothing in biology makes sense" etc.), while well of the bible... we have some Roman records of a man called Jesus existing, mentioned briefly. And just to put that into context there are many other records of "prophets" existing, most mentioned a lot more than Jesus. Aside from that, there's very little to say that anything in the Bible is true, and even the things that prove the purely material things in the Bible (ie. so and so existed, this happened etc.) may be true do nothing to prove the truth of the theological aspect (ie. God exists, this is what God decreed etc.) Anyway, the bible amounts to more than a creation theory, it has serious implications in everyday life.

[jay_a2j]

I'm going to post here momentarily to get my theological groove back on.

1 question:

Why should one believe the Bible given:

A) It was written by man
B) It was extensively edited by man
C) There is no proof anywhere that it in its entirity is true.

You can say The Bible validates itself, how by being consistant with itself? That's not a proof.

You say you have to have faith, but what is faith but belief in something without any reason to believe in it? That's idiotic at best, and damn dangerous at its worst.

A) Written (down) by man, inspired by God.

B) If God is God (and I believe he is) Don't you think that He would make sure man doesn't mess up His word... wether it be editing it OR writting it down?

C) Prove it wrong then. Also it does not verify itself with itself. "The Jews will be scattered" it happened (real time, not in the Bible) "They (Jews) will be gathered again to their homeland and never again be driven from it" This happened in 1948 following WWII when Isreal became a nation Scripture predicts Jesus' death on a cross some 400 years before crucifixion was invented. .... There are 1000+ predictions in the Bible that have either been fulfilled or are future predictions and have yet to be fulfilled. Not bad for being "written and edited by man".



HEB11:1 "Now faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you can not see."

[jay_a2j]

this is ridiculous, ppl saying god exists & that he doesnt, none of u know. I wouldnt read the bible & believe it 100%. The Bible is a book full of metaphors & morals that we should all follow & live by 2 make the world a better place. Remember that the Bible was written by other ppl, it is not something that was here before us. & as for Jesus, it is more likely that he was an advanced lifeform from another planet than a son of somebody who created everything.

"In the begining was the WORD, and the WORD was God."

[DRoZ]

A) Your question was why should anyone believe the bible because it was written by man ... insinuating that man could be wrong and I gave a reason why he could be right ... I was and am not saying that everything I say is right and everyone else is wrong, I am just saying it could be possible.

B) the addition I was referring to was the new testament which is a necessary part to the bible, not in any way an edit, and the subtraction is just a theory as far as I know there is no proof of any other books of the bible.

C) I brought that up to make a point about how we as humans haven't come up with any significant proof of where we came from or where we are going, they are all just theories, and until we can find undeniable proof that something exists or doesn't there is no reason to throw out a reasonable theory.

[reverend_kyle]

I'm going to post here momentarily to get my theological groove back on.

1 question:

Why should one believe the Bible given:

A) It was written by man
B) It was extensively edited by man
C) There is no proof anywhere that it in its entirity is true.

You can say The Bible validates itself, how by being consistant with itself? That's not a proof.

You say you have to have faith, but what is faith but belief in something without any reason to believe in it? That's idiotic at best, and damn dangerous at its worst.

A) Written (down) by man, inspired by God.

B) If God is God (and I believe he is) Don't you think that He would make sure man doesn't mess up His word... wether it be editing it OR writting it down?

C) Prove it wrong then. Also it does not verify itself with itself. "The Jews will be scattered" it happened (real time, not in the Bible) "They (Jews) will be gathered again to their homeland and never again be driven from it" This happened in 1948 following WWII when Isreal became a nation Scripture predicts Jesus' death on a cross some 400 years before crucifixion was invented. .... There are 1000+ predictions in the Bible that have either been fulfilled or are future predictions and have yet to be fulfilled. Not bad for being "written and edited by man".



HEB11:1 "Now faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you can not see."

Is that your only proof because the koran has been pretty damn accurate at predicting events too....

[Pilate]

B) If God is God (and I believe he is) Don't you think that He would make sure man doesn't mess up His word... wether it be editing it OR writting it down?

Don't you think he would prevent his followers from all the foolish things they've done (continue to do?)?

lololo