Logic dictates that there is a God!

[notyou2]

Give it up. You are at an evolutionary dead end.


Hopefully he doesn't have kids, but I expect he does.

[Lord Arioch]

In sweden we got a snake that used to be a lizard... dont know its english name... kopparödla....in swedish it moves like a snake now but still have traces of legs whitin itself cause its evolving away from lizard hood into snake hood:) the reason for this is unknown, but it will have been doing this for like 10k years thats why we dont see it cause evolution takes time like billions of years...

[jay_a2j]

False. Language itself evolved. Take english for example. Old english is unrecognizable to modern day english speakers. This is because it changed, adapted and adopted bits and pieces of other languages over a long period of time. English wasn't simply created. Nor was Language, nor were humans, nor was life.

All those years of evolution yet man was the only species do develop the spoken word. Am I the only one who finds this stuff unbelievably unlikely? Put a newborn baby in a room. Never let it HEAR spoken language. That child will grow up without the ability to speak. Why? Because language is a LEARNED behavior. Who taught the first ape to speak?


Now, even if (as has been told me) a bunch a cavemen were sitting around a fire and one of them touched the flame and "grunted" so everyone in that tribe recognized that "grunt" as meaning "hot"...it would not last....the meaning of that grunt would die out and eventually be remembered no more..... and then there is the other tribes (yeah this is getting ridiculous) which is fully plausible and requires no faith! /sarcasm...... Yet believing in God is as silly as believing in the tooth-fairy or Santa Clause??? Yeah, that's logical!

[TA1LGUNN3R]

False. Language itself evolved. Take english for example. Old english is unrecognizable to modern day english speakers. This is because it changed, adapted and adopted bits and pieces of other languages over a long period of time. English wasn't simply created. Nor was Language, nor were humans, nor was life.

All those years of evolution yet man was the only species do develop the spoken word. Am I the only one who finds this stuff unbelievably unlikely? Put a newborn baby in a room. Never let it HEAR spoken language. That child will grow up without the ability to speak. Why? Because language is a LEARNED behavior. Who taught the first ape to speak?


Now, even if (as has been told me) a bunch a cavemen were sitting around a fire and one of them touched the flame and "grunted" so everyone in that tribe recognized that "grunt" as meaning "hot"...it would not last....the meaning of that grunt would die out and eventually be remembered no more..... and then there is the other tribes (yeah this is getting ridiculous) which is fully plausible and requires no faith! /sarcasm...... Yet believing in God is as silly as believing in the tooth-fairy or Santa Clause??? Yeah, that's logical!

Um... You know that pretty much all animals communicate in some form, right? Verbal communication being pretty popular with mammals and birds.

Did you know that ravens exhibit displacement? This is a spoken word, of sorts.

Just because you flap your mouth and form syllables, it doesn't mean that this is some alien, supernatural fire gifted from Prometheus. Animals communicate, we just developed words with rules and syntax. If you study the animal kingdom, I think you'll find that other animals do likewise, minus the regulation of human language.

-TG

(Actually, from what I understand, bird calls and rituals can be highly specific, so there's obviously some form of convention there.)

[jay_a2j]

False. Language itself evolved. Take english for example. Old english is unrecognizable to modern day english speakers. This is because it changed, adapted and adopted bits and pieces of other languages over a long period of time. English wasn't simply created. Nor was Language, nor were humans, nor was life.

All those years of evolution yet man was the only species do develop the spoken word. Am I the only one who finds this stuff unbelievably unlikely? Put a newborn baby in a room. Never let it HEAR spoken language. That child will grow up without the ability to speak. Why? Because language is a LEARNED behavior. Who taught the first ape to speak?


Now, even if (as has been told me) a bunch a cavemen were sitting around a fire and one of them touched the flame and "grunted" so everyone in that tribe recognized that "grunt" as meaning "hot"...it would not last....the meaning of that grunt would die out and eventually be remembered no more..... and then there is the other tribes (yeah this is getting ridiculous) which is fully plausible and requires no faith! /sarcasm...... Yet believing in God is as silly as believing in the tooth-fairy or Santa Clause??? Yeah, that's logical!

Um... You know that pretty much all animals communicate in some form, right? Verbal communication being pretty popular with mammals and birds.

Did you know that ravens exhibit displacement? This is a spoken word, of sorts.

Just because you flap your mouth and form syllables, it doesn't mean that this is some alien, supernatural fire gifted from Prometheus. Animals communicate, we just developed words with rules and syntax. If you study the animal kingdom, I think you'll find that other animals do likewise, minus the regulation of human language.

-TG

(Actually, from what I understand, bird calls and rituals can be highly specific, so there's obviously some form of convention there.)

You are aware that verbal communication if far different than "communication". And that of all the species of animals (much less mammals) only man evolved the ability to SPEAK LANGUAGES. But I digress, if you want to believe that by chance life popped up out of nothing defied the odds and survived long enough to reproduce by chance (without an opposite sex to do so) then, somehow form spoken language(s) by chance but REFUSE the idea of GOD then carry on.... logic is useless here.

[AndyDufresne]

It might be time to get over yourself...

--Andy

[notyou2]

False. Language itself evolved. Take english for example. Old english is unrecognizable to modern day english speakers. This is because it changed, adapted and adopted bits and pieces of other languages over a long period of time. English wasn't simply created. Nor was Language, nor were humans, nor was life.

All those years of evolution yet man was the only species do develop the spoken word. Am I the only one who finds this stuff unbelievably unlikely? Put a newborn baby in a room. Never let it HEAR spoken language. That child will grow up without the ability to speak. Why? Because language is a LEARNED behavior. Who taught the first ape to speak?


Now, even if (as has been told me) a bunch a cavemen were sitting around a fire and one of them touched the flame and "grunted" so everyone in that tribe recognized that "grunt" as meaning "hot"...it would not last....the meaning of that grunt would die out and eventually be remembered no more..... and then there is the other tribes (yeah this is getting ridiculous) which is fully plausible and requires no faith! /sarcasm...... Yet believing in God is as silly as believing in the tooth-fairy or Santa Clause??? Yeah, that's logical!

Um... You know that pretty much all animals communicate in some form, right? Verbal communication being pretty popular with mammals and birds.

Did you know that ravens exhibit displacement? This is a spoken word, of sorts.

Just because you flap your mouth and form syllables, it doesn't mean that this is some alien, supernatural fire gifted from Prometheus. Animals communicate, we just developed words with rules and syntax. If you study the animal kingdom, I think you'll find that other animals do likewise, minus the regulation of human language.

-TG

(Actually, from what I understand, bird calls and rituals can be highly specific, so there's obviously some form of convention there.)

You are aware that verbal communication if far different than "communication". And that of all the species of animals (much less mammals) only man evolved the ability to SPEAK LANGUAGES. But I digress, if you want to believe that by chance life popped up out of nothing defied the odds and survived long enough to reproduce by chance (without an opposite sex to do so) then, somehow form spoken language(s) by chance but REFUSE the idea of GOD then carry on.... logic is useless here.

Prove that whales aren't speaking a language. Or bees or ants for that matter.


I'm positive that trees are speaking to each other, but only within the same evolutionary species. An oak doesn't speak the same language as a chestnut. The Great Spaghetti Monster gave them this gift so the trees could be the witnesses to history. All history since the His Noodly Appendage appeared to mankind has been recorded in tree rings, we just haven't figured out a way to extract the individual bits from the various species and compile it into the written history it so obviously is. The parts they have deciphered so far indicate that anyone that questions this is a sinner and will rot for eternity in the great trash receptacle.

[jay_a2j]

Prove that whales aren't speaking a language. Or bees or ants for that matter.

(A long insignificant tirade about an idol made of food)

I can't but those who study whale communication can and have. They make series of noises that can mean different things based on pitch and length of noises made, like a distress call. Bees have also been known to use movements to convey what they want to communicate, which would be unnecessary if they were SPEAKING A LANGUAGE.

[The Bison King]

I can't but those who study whale communication can and have. They make series of noises that can mean different things based on pitch and length of noises made, like a distress call.

And how is that not a spoken language?

[The Bison King]

You are aware that verbal communication if far different than "communication". And that of all the species of animals (much less mammals) only man evolved the ability to SPEAK LANGUAGES. But I digress, if you want to believe that by chance life popped up out of nothing defied the odds and survived long enough to reproduce by chance (without an opposite sex to do so) then, somehow form spoken language(s) by chance but REFUSE the idea of GOD then carry on.... logic is useless here.

Cute, eye rolling... but if you're not going to try why should we? If everything you're saying is Soooo obvious than why are you constantly on the defensive? Every piece of evidence we put before you, you dismiss as "un-believable" and that it's "far more un-believable than god being the reason for everything everywhere all of the time" while giving us anything substantial to back it up.

Look if you want to be ignorant, whatever. Believe what you want to believe, but don't start a conversation if you have no actual intention of listening to anyone but yourself. Sounds to me like you're the one who needs a lesson in communication *burn*

[jay_a2j]

I can't but those who study whale communication can and have. They make series of noises that can mean different things based on pitch and length of noises made, like a distress call.

And how is that not a spoken language?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!




Is a sound, not a language...

[jay_a2j]

You are aware that verbal communication if far different than "communication". And that of all the species of animals (much less mammals) only man evolved the ability to SPEAK LANGUAGES. But I digress, if you want to believe that by chance life popped up out of nothing defied the odds and survived long enough to reproduce by chance (without an opposite sex to do so) then, somehow form spoken language(s) by chance but REFUSE the idea of GOD then carry on.... logic is useless here.

Cute, eye rolling... but if you're not going to try why should we? If everything you're saying is Soooo obvious than why are you constantly on the defensive? Every piece of evidence we put before you, you dismiss as "un-believable" and that it's "far more un-believable than god being the reason for everything everywhere all of the time" while giving us anything substantial to back it up.

Look if you want to be ignorant, whatever. Believe what you want to believe, but don't start a conversation if you have no actual intention of listening to anyone but yourself. Sounds to me like you're the one who needs a lesson in communication *burn*

You try? Really? All I've seen are non-proven "facts" that require a lot more FAITH to believe than is required to believe in God! It is as if you are SEARCHING for a reason do dismiss God because the moment you acknowledge Him you have to give an account for yourself. And I know the unwillingness to want to do that, I lived it. But that never made God cease to exist it just put me on a road apart from God. Which might seem ok at the moment but in the context of eternity, doesn't make a lot of sense. We can run from God but we can never hide. In the end, God loves us, knows what is best for us and will never leave us but if we reject Him he will leave us alone to go down a separate path of our choosing.

[notyou2]

(A long insignificant tirade about an idol made of food)

What's your idol made of?????? How do you know it isn't spaghetti?


My idol is every bit as plausible as your idol. Mine is invisible. He is all knowing. He lives in the sky.

Oh, that's weird, those are the same attributes as your idol.

[notyou2]

I can't but those who study whale communication can and have. They make series of noises that can mean different things based on pitch and length of noises made, like a distress call.

And how is that not a spoken language?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!






Is a sound, not a language...

I wonder what that would convey to a human?

Pain?
Relief?
Fear?


Gosh, sounds like a language to me.

[The Bison King]

You try? Really? All I've seen are non-proven "facts"

Simply false. Just because YOU decide something hasn't been proven doesn't make it that way.

All I've seen are non-proven "facts" that require a lot more FAITH to believe than is required to believe in God!

How much faith something requires to be believed is not a reason to believe or not believe something. For example it would be very easy to believe that the earth is flat, right? If you didn't know any better it would be the easiest thing in the world to say, in total confidence, that the Earth is a flat plain. Obviously this is false. You're arguing that because it's harder to believe that there isn't a God then there is. Well guess what, that's not a good argument.

And for the record, I'm not trying to convert you to atheism. Believe in God if you want, just don't let that belief cloud your vision of the rest of the natural world, and close other doors in your mind.

Any way but as for me...

It is as if you are SEARCHING for a reason do dismiss God because the moment you acknowledge Him you have to give an account for yourself.

Wow! uh, no. No sir, I must humbly disagree. I do not need God to have a moral compass. I account for myself with or without him. To a person like me, God simply is not part of that equation. I do not believe in heaven or hell, I believe that this is it, and that we must take personal responsibility for ourselves.

Also I'm not "searching for a reason to dismiss God" I just haven't found a reason TO believe in him. There's a BIG difference in how we look at this subject.

And I know the unwillingness to want to do that, I lived it. But that never made God cease to exist it just put me on a road apart from God. Which might seem ok at the moment but in the context of eternity, doesn't make a lot of sense. We can run from God but we can never hide. In the end, God loves us, knows what is best for us and will never leave us but if we reject Him he will leave us alone to go down a separate path of our choosing.

Uh... ok that's neat I guess. Whatever you went through, that's fine. If God helps you get through the night, great! More power to you. Just don't assume that everyone needs to believe in the same thing you do to live happy complete lives. Ok.

[GoranZ]

If your logic dictates that there is god... you have problems with your logic, its faulty

Said the great, great, great, great, great, great, great ,great, great grandson of an orangutang.

You got that wrong... completely.
I have no orangutan as my ancestor... but we probably have same ancestors dating millions of years ago.

Only noneducated men like you say that humans originate from orangutans... But I dont mind, evolution will effectively correct the mistake. After all those with logic will survive

Love how you guys keep changing the rules to try and plug all the holes. I used orangutang because it sounded funnier than "apes". Now, when I was in school they had this chart of an ape......... "evolving" into a man......... their concept of evolution. NOW, you want to distance yourself from said chart because you can't fix all the holes in this concept. Give up. God is!

I think that you should stop blaming others for your inability to understand what is going on in the world around you. That is generally your problem, not mine, you are the one that isn't smart, its not me.

Who changed the rules? Just now you switched from orangutang to apes (probably not to sound funnier but to offend me).
IDK in which schools you were studding, and what were you studding but you definitely weren't studding from blog. And obviously you have learned nothing, probably because of intellectual limitations. According to that logic dictates that believing in God makes you stupid... If you find my words offending blame your God, after all according to you he created you stupid

[TA1LGUNN3R]

False. Language itself evolved. Take english for example. Old english is unrecognizable to modern day english speakers. This is because it changed, adapted and adopted bits and pieces of other languages over a long period of time. English wasn't simply created. Nor was Language, nor were humans, nor was life.

All those years of evolution yet man was the only species do develop the spoken word. Am I the only one who finds this stuff unbelievably unlikely? Put a newborn baby in a room. Never let it HEAR spoken language. That child will grow up without the ability to speak. Why? Because language is a LEARNED behavior. Who taught the first ape to speak?


Now, even if (as has been told me) a bunch a cavemen were sitting around a fire and one of them touched the flame and "grunted" so everyone in that tribe recognized that "grunt" as meaning "hot"...it would not last....the meaning of that grunt would die out and eventually be remembered no more..... and then there is the other tribes (yeah this is getting ridiculous) which is fully plausible and requires no faith! /sarcasm...... Yet believing in God is as silly as believing in the tooth-fairy or Santa Clause??? Yeah, that's logical!

Um... You know that pretty much all animals communicate in some form, right? Verbal communication being pretty popular with mammals and birds.

Did you know that ravens exhibit displacement? This is a spoken word, of sorts.

Just because you flap your mouth and form syllables, it doesn't mean that this is some alien, supernatural fire gifted from Prometheus. Animals communicate, we just developed words with rules and syntax. If you study the animal kingdom, I think you'll find that other animals do likewise, minus the regulation of human language.

-TG

(Actually, from what I understand, bird calls and rituals can be highly specific, so there's obviously some form of convention there.)

You are aware that verbal communication if far different than "communication". And that of all the species of animals (much less mammals) only man evolved the ability to SPEAK LANGUAGES. But I digress, if you want to believe that by chance life popped up out of nothing defied the odds and survived long enough to reproduce by chance (without an opposite sex to do so) then, somehow form spoken language(s) by chance but REFUSE the idea of GOD then carry on.... logic is useless here.

Did you bother looking up displacement, or did you just skip it?

A raven who comes upon a food source or other object can return to its murder, tell them about the object of interest, and without the first raven, the rest will go and find the object the next day. He just communicated about an object and gave directions.

-TG

[beezer]

1 Corinthians 1:18, Jay

Why give these guys here a platform? They'll cannibalize each other if you just let them.

[DaGip]

Logic?
LOL!

Are you really trying to use LOGIC?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

1 Corinthians 1:18, Jay

Why give these guys here a platform? They'll cannibalize each other if you just let them.

Hm, is this like the disclaimer for the bible? I wonder if I could get away with that in business or advertising.

"Buy our crap. It's been proven not to work, but that's only because you don't believe in it."

-TG

[jay_a2j]

1 Corinthians 1:18, Jay

Why give these guys here a platform? They'll cannibalize each other if you just let them.

God wants none to parish. Why would they choose to die when they could live? It just grieves me to see a blatant rejection of God when He did all He could for them.

[notyou2]

Jay do you think the Santa of 200 years ago was the same as the Santa today? Today he is far more popular than then. Do you think he has changed over time? I sure do.

Do you think the Jesus of 2000 years ago is the same Jesus of 1500 years ago? I don't. He has been changed by man and time, just as Santa has. He has taken on mythical proportions he never had when he lived. Man wrote the books, not god, and man changed those books.

[JBlombier]

I have read about 5 posts in this entire thread and all I can think is: Dear God, Jay is one fine believer. Jay, did you really react to the 234 pages of people trying to show you you're wrong. That's some faith, man. I have respect for that.

As long as you're happy, keep going. When you're not happy, at least you have the Lord. We have to take care of it on our own and I assure you it's no pleasure.

[jay_a2j]

Do you think the Jesus of 2000 years ago is the same Jesus of 1500 years ago? I don't. He has been changed by man and time, just as Santa has. He has taken on mythical proportions he never had when he lived. Man wrote the books, not god, and man changed those books.

Hebrews 13:8
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

He does not change. God authored the Bible and He chose men to write it down. (I'm willing to bet He picked some pretty competent people!)

I have read about 5 posts in this entire thread and all I can think is: Dear God, Jay is one fine believer. Jay, did you really react to the 234 pages of people trying to show you you're wrong. That's some faith, man. I have respect for that.

As long as you're happy, keep going. When you're not happy, at least you have the Lord. We have to take care of it on our own and I assure you it's no pleasure.

Thanks. It's because for me it is no longer a question. I don't "believe" He exists, I know He exists. Belief requires no "hard evidence". To "know" something does.....it's just this requires faith and as this faith grows the certainty of Him is unquestionable.