Democrats continue the Crises over Illegal Immigration

[Dukasaur]

Very nice post, JP.

I agree with virtually all of it. I'm not going to bother with individual sections as I think they are all part of a whole.

Like you, I have no problems with deportations of actual criminals.

[Dukasaur]

Okay, wasn't going to quote any of it, but I'll quote the whole thing, as it was at the bottom of the page and deserves to be at the top of the page.

Recent Developments. How far will Trump and ICE GO?

And how far is too far?

Federal immigration raid at Omaha meat production plant sparks protests

Updated 9:10 PM EDT, June 10, 2025

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — Immigration authorities raided an Omaha meat production plant Tuesday morning and took dozens of workers away in buses, leaving company officials bewildered because they said they had followed the law.

The raid happened around 9 a.m. at Glenn Valley Foods in south Omaha, an area where nearly a quarter of residents were foreign born according to the 2020 census.

A small group of people came out to protest the raid, and some of them even jumped on the front bumper of a vehicle to try to stop officers in one location while others threw rocks at officials’ vehicles as a white bus carrying workers pulled away from a plant.

Chad Hartmann, president of the food packaging company, said the front office was stunned by the aggressive nature of federal officials’ raid and confused by why the company was targeted.

“My biggest issue is: why us?” Hartmann said. “We do everything by the book.”

The plant uses E-Verify, the federal database used to check the immigration status of employees. When he said as much to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers who carried out the raid, they told him the E-Verify system “is broken.”

“I mean, what am I supposed to do with that?” Hartmann said. “This is your system, run by the government. And you’re raiding me because your system is broken?” (...)

Meatpacking plants rely heavily on immigrant workers who are willing to do the physically demanding work. The industry has not yet been the focus of President Donald Trump’s immigration enforcement efforts, but the administration has been intensifying its efforts in recent weeks.

https://apnews.com/article/immigration-raids-omaha-ice-food-plant-bebe9e642964aa06fbaef0b7e8ada093

Duk and I discussed this very point (perhaps twice already), that immigrants do this very difficult type of labor that MOST Americans do not want to do. We cannot afford to deport ALL immigrants who work in industries such as construction and food services, jobs that, again, most Americans do not want.

jusplay4fun wrote (6/7/25):

AND YES, without immigrants doing hard physical labor jobs, we would have trouble getting home and roads built, crops picked, hotel rooms cleaned; ALL the jobs Duk described. One more set of jobs MOST Americans refuse to do: meat packing and processing AND clean up after the meat is packed, too. Those are difficult and sometimes dangerous. There was a report a few years ago about a 14 year old child of immigrants cleaning a chicken processing plant who was killed in an accident on the 12-8 shift doing MAJOR clean up that was , quite frankly, VERY DANGEROUS, even for adults. So YES, I am quite aware of our dependence on immigrant workers and have been before 2026.

Dukasaur wrote (4/26/25):

You seem sincere in wanting the good, hardworking migrants to get a chance to become citizens, but he does not.

my response; jusplay4fun wrote:

Thanks, Duk. Yes, I am sincere in my feelings about most immigrants being good folks who want to work hard and provide for their families. And yes, among them are a few "bad apples." Those bad apples/Criminals are the ones I want to see deported. I have not heard Trump say that he will stop deportations once he deports most of the bad criminals that he can find. That concerns me, that he will deport many folks that I think SHOULD be allowed to stay.

We need to LAWS passed by Congress on many things: budget and immigration are two very important examples. Use of Executive Orders can only do so much. The Budget beyond the latest continuing resolution needs to be passed. The last I heard, there were some 40 Republicans in the House who want bigger and deeper spending cuts and were thus opposed to the Bill passed by the Senate.

We shall watch and see what happens on immigration (and deportations). We will also watch what happens regardging peace, cuts to the Government, and the Economy and many other issues. I think Trump's handling of tariffs shows that he does respond to criticisms and to what happens, for example to Wall Street and the Bond market.

and more; by me (4/25/25) all from this very thread:

I think, other than one Administrative error, that Trump is managing the immigration crises well. Just as Trump said, we did not need a new law, just a new President.

I do not want to see ALL illegal immigrants deported. The VAST majority are hard-working and family oriented. We need those workers. Most will become good citizens and so will there children. I have little doubt of that. I met a young lady, Hispanic, and fluent in Spanish (and English) at our weekly feeding of the Poor and needy at my Church. She is an engineering student who currently has a GPA of 3.8; her boyfriend is not as fluent in English, but works as a welder, but wants to be a nurse. I told BOTH that we need good engineers, good welders, and good nurses. We need their energy and drive and family values of such people.

I interact often with Hispanics, many who are immigrants. Most I encounter at my Church, but some at the local Food Bank I volunteer at. I do not ask their status, except of one man whom I greatly respect. I wrote a letter on his behalf as he applies for citizenship via a lawyer. He asked my to write the letter over one year ago. I gladly agreed to do so. I check with him once in a while to see how that process is progressing.

I think illegal immigrants who are criminals should be deported as expeditiously as possible following due process.

and July 5, 2023, jusplay4fun wrote:

We in the USA need immigrants. Most, the vast majority actually, bring their work ethic and their hard work and (at some point) their families and ALL of them make this country BETTER. We cannot have virtually open borders, as Biden's previous policy(s) encouraged.

[jusplay4fun]

Thanks, Duk. I think you and I agree on the basic ideas of immigration; we disagree on some aspects and on Trump.

My concern has been, from the start of his second term, that Trump will go TOO FAR with deportations that impact persons who are here illegally, but are hard-working persons who are economic refugees doing important work in this country. We do need secure borders and a more organized means of allowing people into the country, not the chaos and virtual open borders of Biden.

I have already discussed the DACA children. I did hear that Trump is willing to consider immigrantion status for those here for over ten years. I am not sure about a blanket pardon and automatic citizenship as happened under Reagan.

AI Overview
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, signed into law by President Ronald Reagan, granted amnesty to approximately three million undocumented immigrants in the United States. This act, also known as the Reagan amnesty, provided a pathway to legal residency for those who had been living in the US unlawfully since before January 1, 1982. Additionally, it offered amnesty to agricultural workers who had been employed for a significant period.

and:

After early reprieve from immigration enforcement, farming industry reckons with raids
June 16, 2025

President Trump vowed to help protect agricultural workers just days after federal immigration officials targeted farms and meat packing plants in a widespread effort to detain people without legal status. (...)

The administration's focus on worksite enforcement has mostly left the agriculture sector alone. That changed when Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers arrested more than 70 people at a meatpacking plant in Omaha, Neb., and other federal agents targeted farms north of Los Angeles on the same day, June 11. (...)

The Agriculture Department estimates that about 42% of crop farmworkers do not have legal status. And an overwhelming majority are settled, meaning they work in a single location within 75 miles of their home.

https://www.npr.org/2025/06/16/nx-s1-5430846/farming-industry-immigration-ice-worksite-enforcement-trump

As illustrated by the debate on dropping "bunker busting bombs" on Iraq, the President must weigh many factors and the path to a good decision is not straight and not easy. This is true for nearly ALL Presidents (and Leaders who LISTEN) and for many decisions. I remember President Obama saying something to the effect that there are many tough decisions and he has to make the final call on many tough decisions.

One of the first things I discovered as President of the United States was that no decision that landed on my desk had an easy, tidy answer. The black-and-white questions never made it to me — somebody else on my staff would have already answered them.

https://barackobama.medium.com/how-i-approach-the-toughest-decisions-dc1b165cdf2d
The above is a good article and worth reading for those facing tough decisions.

I think that Trump does respond to public comment and protests. His change of thinking on immigrants working on farms is a good example. And to my knowledge, that change in Trump's thinking is not due to a Court injunction. The debate on immigration and deportation continues, and lives of many immigrants continue to be disrupted.

I have said it before: MOST immigrants are here for a better life ("economic immigrants") and are hard-working folks who are very family oriented. They add to the country and help make life for the rest of already here better, as they work, provide for their families, and improve their economic status. And with the drop in birthrate, we need immigrants to fill many slots and jobs in this country. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO DEPORT EVERY SINGLE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. We cannot afford to deport most of them, either.

AI Overview
The Mystery of the Declining U.S. Birth Rate | Econofact
The US birth rate has been declining, reaching a record low in 2023, with 1.6 births per woman, well below the replacement level of 2.1. This trend is concerning for future population growth and has implications for the economy and social security systems.

This decline in birthrate will have major IMPACT on society for the near future.

What makes this country GREAT are immigrants. Yes, Laws, and Natural Resources, a common vision of America, creativity and innovations (and more) are ALSO important, but the growth and advancements of this nation are largely fueled by immigrants. Again, to emphasize my main tenet, we need an orderly approach to immigration, NOT the chaos (and thus CRISES) brought about by Biden.

[jusplay4fun]

I saw a report that Under Biden, some 1504 Iranians stopped at the Border and 709 of them were released into the USA (or was it 749)?

EXCLUSIVE: More than 700 Iranians released into the U.S. under Biden

More than 1,500 Iranians apprehended by Border Patrol agents alone

(...)
The data excludes Iranians apprehended at ports of entry and those who illegally entered the U.S. as gotaways. Gotways is the official term used to describe foreign nationals who illegally enter between ports of entry to intentionally evade capture. More than two million gotaways were reported under the Biden administration, The Center Square exclusively reported.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_8a9f5ec5-e337-4d29-8650-ea01eec3ff6a.html

btw: this links via topic to the Israel (Middle East) thread.

[Dukasaur]

I saw a report that Under Biden, some 1504 Iranians stopped at the Border and 709 of them were released into the USA (or was it 749)?

EXCLUSIVE: More than 700 Iranians released into the U.S. under Biden

More than 1,500 Iranians apprehended by Border Patrol agents alone

(...)
The data excludes Iranians apprehended at ports of entry and those who illegally entered the U.S. as gotaways. Gotways is the official term used to describe foreign nationals who illegally enter between ports of entry to intentionally evade capture. More than two million gotaways were reported under the Biden administration, The Center Square exclusively reported.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_8a9f5ec5-e337-4d29-8650-ea01eec3ff6a.html

btw: this links via topic to the Israel (Middle East) thread.

So you disapprove of people trying to escape from a tyrannical regime like the Ayatollah's?

It's the very definition of a legitimate refugee -- the very point of why we have refugee policies!