Conquer Club

D.T.W.A.

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Should We Drug Test People who Apply for Welfare?

 
Total votes : 0

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:15 pm

For a more liberal view, courtesy of the ACLU, here it is:
Welfare recipients are no more likely to use drugs than the rest of the population.


According to a 1996 study by the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, differences between the proportion of welfare and non-welfare recipients using illegal drugs are statistically insignificant.[2]
Before the Michigan policy was halted, only 10% of recipients tested positive for illicit drugs. Only 3% tested positive for hard drugs, such as cocaine and amphetamines[3] – rates that are in line with the drug use rates of the general population.[4]
Seventy percent of all illicit drug users (and presumably a much higher percentage of alcohol users), ages 18-49, are employed full-time
.[5]


Science and medical experts overwhelmingly oppose the drug testing of welfare recipients.


The Center for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) recommended against implementing random drug testing of welfare recipients. CAMH believes that there was little benefit to testing and that the stigma associated with testing impacted those on welfare negatively. They recommended that resources be allocated towards better training for government workers to detect signs of substance abuse and mental disorders, as well as to greater assistance and treatment to those who need help.[6]
In addition, mandatory drug testing of welfare recipients is opposed by the American Public Health Association, National Association of Social Workers, Inc., National Association of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Counselors, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Association of Maternal and Child Health Programs, National Health Law Project, National Association on Alcohol, Drugs and Disability, Inc., National Advocates for Pregnant Women, National Black Women’s Health Project, Legal Action Center, National Welfare Rights Union, Youth Law Center, Juvenile Law Center, and National Coalition for Child Protection Reform.[7]
Random drug testing of welfare recipients is fiscally irresponsible:

Drug testing is expensive.


The average cost of a drug test is about $42 per person tested,[8] not including the costs of hiring personnel to administer the tests, to ensure confidentiality of results and to run confirmatory tests to guard against false positives resulting from passive drug exposure, cross-identification with legal, prescription drugs such as codeine and legal substances such as poppy seeds.
Another way to measure the cost is by counting what it costs to ā€œcatchā€ each drug user. Drug testing is not used by many private employers because of the exorbitant cost of catching each person who tests positive. One electronics manufacturer, for example, estimated that the cost of finding each person who tested positive was $20,000, since after testing 10,000 employees, only 49 tested positive. A congressional committee also estimated that the cost of each positive drug test of government employees was $77,000, because the positive rate was only 0.5%.[9]
Mandatory drug testing is an ineffective means to uncover drug abuse.


An Oklahoma study found that a questionnaire was able to accurately detect 94 out of 100 drug abusers. The questionnaire was also useful in detecting alcohol abusers, something drug tests fail to accomplish.[10]
Certain counties in Oregon experimented with drug testing on some welfare recipients, but the process was halted when it was found that drug testing was less effective in identifying drug abuse than less invasive, cheaper methods.[11]
Most types of drug tests fail to detect alcohol abuse – the most commonly abused substance among Americans – and are most likely to detect marijuana use since the active ingredient in marijuana stays in the body’s system longer than any other illicit substance. Therefore, drug tests often fail to identify people who are using more powerful, more addictive and more dangerous drugs like methamphetamine or cocaine, which exit the body’s system in a matter of hours or days.[12]
Many states have rejected the random drug testing of welfare recipients as impractical and fiscally unjustifiable.


For example, New York and Maryland each considered a program to randomly drug test those receiving welfare, but abandoned the plan as not cost-effective, given that urinalysis is almost exclusively a barometer of marijuana use and that welfare recipients are required to undergo regular supervision, allowing for effective monitoring absent the cost and intrusion of mandatory drug testing.[13]
Louisiana passed a law in 1997 requiring drug testing for welfare recipients. However, a task force set up to implement the law found more limited drug testing of individuals identified by a questionnaire to be more cost-effective than mandatory drug testing.[14]
Alabama decided against drug testing because it found that focusing on job training programs was a more effective method of moving individuals off of welfare.[15]



Note that they specifically cited YOUR STATE.. so it appears you really did not know of what you spoke.. again.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:16 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:This covers a big part of it.. first why the program you mentioned was struck down and the far better alternative of interviewing (just as one suggestion... though I believe woodruff mentioned this earlier). Oh, and note the $400 price tag for full tests, not the $14 you quoted earlier.:
link:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510707,00.html
The link between public assistance and drug testing stems from the Congressional overhaul of welfare in the 1990s, which allowed states to implement drug testing as a condition of receiving help.

But a federal court struck down a Michigan law that would have allowed for "random, suspicionless" testing, saying it violated the 4th Amendment's protections against unreasonable search and seizure, said Liz Schott, a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

At least six states — Indiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Wisconsin and Virginia — tie eligibility for some public assistance to drug testing for convicted felons or parolees, according to the NCSL.

Nelson said programs that screen welfare applicants by assigning them to case workers for interviews have shown some success without the need for drug tests. These alternative measures offer treatment, but can also threaten future benefits if drug problems persist, she said.

They also cost less than the $400 or so needed for tests that can catch a sufficient range of illegal drugs, and rule out false positive results with a follow-up test, she said.



and the above is from FOX, so hardly a left wing liberal story. :roll:


Woody says they cost 55$ in FL, but I know here in MN a basic drug test kit is 14$.

Finally at least someone contributed something. TY player
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:25 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:This covers a big part of it.. first why the program you mentioned was struck down and the far better alternative of interviewing (just as one suggestion... though I believe woodruff mentioned this earlier). Oh, and note the $400 price tag for full tests, not the $14 you quoted earlier.:
link:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510707,00.html
The link between public assistance and drug testing stems from the Congressional overhaul of welfare in the 1990s, which allowed states to implement drug testing as a condition of receiving help.

But a federal court struck down a Michigan law that would have allowed for "random, suspicionless" testing, saying it violated the 4th Amendment's protections against unreasonable search and seizure, said Liz Schott, a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

At least six states — Indiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Wisconsin and Virginia — tie eligibility for some public assistance to drug testing for convicted felons or parolees, according to the NCSL.

Nelson said programs that screen welfare applicants by assigning them to case workers for interviews have shown some success without the need for drug tests. These alternative measures offer treatment, but can also threaten future benefits if drug problems persist, she said.

They also cost less than the $400 or so needed for tests that can catch a sufficient range of illegal drugs, and rule out false positive results with a follow-up test, she said.



and the above is from FOX, so hardly a left wing liberal story. :roll:


Woody says they cost 55$ in FL, but I know here in MN a basic drug test kit is 14$.

Finally at least someone contributed something. TY player


The test the Florida legislator advocated would cost $55.

I earlier googled and found a range of tests. The ones for $14 ONLY test for marihuana.. the least dangerous. Ironically, though as noted above, because it stays in the system longer than other drugs, people who take that are more likely to be caught than users of hard drugs. Yet, it is really the hard drug users who cause the problem.

Also, as noted earlier this does nothing about alchoholics, and they absolutely cause serious problems.

since the ACLU article is a tad old, I have been looking for more recent information on New York to see it they did pass another law.

here is what I found:
link:http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/new_york_legislators_make_peop.html
article basically covers the same bit as already mentioned. here is an excerpt.
The Upstate lawmakers are targeting people on programs for the poor, like welfare — a family of four in Onondaga County gets $851 a month in assistance — while ignoring other recipients of government subsidies, like business owners who get millions of dollars in tax credits.

Critics say there’s little evidence people getting government help with social programs are more likely to use drugs.

ā€œI would even call it mean-spirited and unsound at a time of fiscal crisis,ā€ said Barrie Gewanter, director of the Central New York chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the lawsuit in Michigan.



and this, from this link: http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=575613
Under Senate Bill 174, if a person on public assistance tests positive for illegal drugs, he or she would be required to undergo drug treatment. The bill says only that the fiscal implications are "to be determined."



note that the NY bill is different from the Florida one.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:35 pm

marijuana is probably the least dangerous. However, it's not the danger of the drug that matters here.

Marijuana makes you lazy. Granted you cannot blow your whole paycheck on marijuana in a weekend (I suppose you could, but not likely)

I think the drugs that need to be tested for is meth, cocaine, marijuana, and opiates.

I am all for helping people who need a hand up. I am not for enabling drug addicts who just want a hand out.

Realize the situation tho. You only need to clean up for 30 days before you apply. After that you can still use drugs, but if you have 30 days clean at that time, the odds are that 30 days clean will "help" more than any welfare check ever could.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby GreecePwns on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:01 pm

For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
User avatar
Corporal GreecePwns
 
Posts: 2656
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: Lawn Guy Lint

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:27 pm

GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Iliad on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:03 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?

Now you're just outright lying.

You've stubbornly repeated that this measure
1) Will act as a deterrent and force addicts to clean up with 30 days in advance
2) Will stop drug addicts from using taxpayer money
3) Will save money because there are obviously millions of those poor, lazy people out there.

You have not stated that if people are caught with drugs in their system that they will be admitted to a rehab clinic. Not only does that directly contradict all three of your points, as surely rehab isn't a deterrent, drug addicts will spend even more of taxpayer's money but now for rehabilitation and you've directly quoted only the cost of the drug test when studying the cost effectiveness of this program.

If you are indeed for rehab for drug addicts instead of random punishment which will simply create crime, and this is the opposite of what you have been saying in this thread, then the first step would be look at the laws against drugs.

You claim to be a disciple of Ayn Rand and Ron Paul, a fierce independent, but for some reason agree that the government should keep checking and determining what drugs you cannot purchase or produce.

Your argument against marijuana is pitiful. It makes you lazy, therefore you should not be allowed to purchase it? Turkey has been scientifically proven to have a chemical which induces sleepiness and laziness. Does that mean turkey should be outlawed? That government should lead a moral crusade against the welfare addicts who blow all their money on turkey and laze around all day?
User avatar
Private 1st Class Iliad
 
Posts: 10394
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:48 am

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby GreecePwns on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:01 pm

So the $14 dollar test only covers marijuana testing and you want 3 other drugs tested in addition to marijuana. Now what?
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
User avatar
Corporal GreecePwns
 
Posts: 2656
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: Lawn Guy Lint

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:41 pm

Phatscotty wrote:marijuana is probably the least dangerous. However, it's not the danger of the drug that matters here.

Marijuana makes you lazy. Granted you cannot blow your whole paycheck on marijuana in a weekend (I suppose you could, but not likely)
A LOT of successful people use marijuana regularly. And, as you note, its not terribly expensive. It IS one drug that some people simply "mooch".

Phatscotty wrote:I think the drugs that need to be tested for is meth, cocaine, marijuana, and opiates.
This program is particularly ineffective at getting those users, as noted above. They leave your system relatively quickly.

Phatscotty wrote:I am all for helping people who need a hand up. I am not for enabling drug addicts who just want a hand out.

Realize the situation tho. You only need to clean up for 30 days before you apply. After that you can still use drugs, but if you have 30 days clean at that time, the odds are that 30 days clean will "help" more than any welfare check ever could.

LOL.. again with your attempt to claim this is altruism?

Random testing of people on welfare is a very ineffective method at catching addicts and certainly does not target those causing the most problems -- not the individuals causing the most problems and not the drugs causing the most problems.

It is very expensive. Every article that gives any kind of real monetary data shows this pretty well. I mean, you keep talking as if it will, but did not even bother to check the figures you were throwing out. The tests being suggested in Florida cost $55.. just for the test, not administration of the program, etc. Most people tested will not test positive, so the result (as pointed out earlier by myself, woodruff and others) is much more than the amoung paid out in welfare.

I am all for getting people off drugs, catching people who are causing problems (whether neglecting kids, or other issues). This program is not about that. Its about filling the pockets of the folks making and selling these tests.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:42 pm

Iliad wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?

Now you're just outright lying.

You've stubbornly repeated that this measure
1) Will act as a deterrent and force addicts to clean up with 30 days in advance
2) Will stop drug addicts from using taxpayer money
3) Will save money because there are obviously millions of those poor, lazy people out there.

You have not stated that if people are caught with drugs in their system that they will be admitted to a rehab clinic. Not only does that directly contradict all three of your points, as surely rehab isn't a deterrent, drug addicts will spend even more of taxpayer's money but now for rehabilitation and you've directly quoted only the cost of the drug test when studying the cost effectiveness of this program.

If you are indeed for rehab for drug addicts instead of random punishment which will simply create crime, and this is the opposite of what you have been saying in this thread, then the first step would be look at the laws against drugs.

You claim to be a disciple of Ayn Rand and Ron Paul, a fierce independent, but for some reason agree that the government should keep checking and determining what drugs you cannot purchase or produce.

Your argument against marijuana is pitiful. It makes you lazy, therefore you should not be allowed to purchase it? Turkey has been scientifically proven to have a chemical which induces sleepiness and laziness. Does that mean turkey should be outlawed? That government should lead a moral crusade against the welfare addicts who blow all their money on turkey and laze around all day?


You are the liar. I have always had the position that they go to rehab and clean it up.

We are talking about a realm where someone is living off of the taxpayer. You can't throw your feeble understanding of independence in my face in a world of dependence.

It's not random, it's upon suspicion.

Get a clue or go home.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:43 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:marijuana is probably the least dangerous. However, it's not the danger of the drug that matters here.

Marijuana makes you lazy. Granted you cannot blow your whole paycheck on marijuana in a weekend (I suppose you could, but not likely)
A LOT of successful people use marijuana regularly. And, as you note, its not terribly expensive. It IS one drug that some people simply "mooch".


unfortunately, this thread is not about successful people who can handle their drugs.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:44 pm

The link to the original article is no longer working:
Unfortunately we are unable to locate the page you have requested. This could be due to content on our site having expired, a broken link, an outdated bookmark, or a mistyped address. Please use the navigation and search box provided on this page
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:56 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:marijuana is probably the least dangerous. However, it's not the danger of the drug that matters here.

Marijuana makes you lazy. Granted you cannot blow your whole paycheck on marijuana in a weekend (I suppose you could, but not likely)
A LOT of successful people use marijuana regularly. And, as you note, its not terribly expensive. It IS one drug that some people simply "mooch".


unfortunately, this thread is not about successful people who can handle their drugs.

Its not about people who are unsuccessful because they are using drugs.

If you are honest, the truth is you believe the stereotype that masses of people on welfare use drugs. This is simply not true:
"What (Scott) is doing is giving ugly legitimacy to an unfortunate stereotype that has been in this country for a couple of decades – that all welfare recipients are a bunch of drug abusers," said Howard Simon, executive director of the ACLU of Florida.



Oh, did not find the original article, but did find this bit in a Tallahassee paper article:
During debate about the law, critics pointed to a pilot testing program in Florida that was shut down in 2001 after it showed no significant difference in drug use between welfare recipients and the population at large.
full article:http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/31/us-florida-welfare-drugs-idUSTRE74U6W320110531

Second ---
This part:http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/05/florida-government-defends-requiring-drug-tests-for-welfare-recipients/
Under the law, which takes effect on July 1, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services will be required to conduct the drug tests on adults applying to the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify.
Means it now costs $55 just to apply for assistance. If you qualify, you get the money back, but you still have to come up with $55 up front! People in desperate need of money just to get by are now expected to come up with $55??? If you apply, pass the drug test, but for some reason don't qualify for assistance, you don't get the money back.

So, actually this probably WILL cut down on welfare.... because fewer people can afford to even apply!

Its got absolutely nothing to do with drug use, though.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:58 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?

There is absolutely nothing about rehab in the Florida law. The FIRST time you are caught, you lose benefits for a year. The second time, for 3 years.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:02 pm

55$ in order to get a free 300$ check every month for years adding up to $10,000's?

Tyranny!
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:05 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?

There is absolutely nothing about rehab in the Florida law. The FIRST time you are caught, you lose benefits for a year. The second time, for 3 years.


what do you mean "nothing about rehab". Can you please say that a different way I don't know what you mean there.

you go into rehab first, then apply. Why would a person even take the test if they knew they couldnt pass it in the first place?
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:10 pm

Phatscotty wrote:55$ in order to get a free 300$ check every month for years adding up to $10,000's?

Tyranny!

Do your math properly: You have to test 30 people , so 30 * 55 or $1650, and the savings is just for ONE year (. OR, more likely no savings, since the welfare for the kids is given to someone else.) PLUS you have to add in adminstration costs, recording costs, etc. ( I had said 6% of the population was at most using drugs, but the articles said 3% was correct for Florida.)
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:11 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?

There is absolutely nothing about rehab in the Florida law. The FIRST time you are caught, you lose benefits for a year. The second time, for 3 years.


what do you mean "nothing about rehab". Can you please say that a different way I don't know what you mean there.

you go into rehab first, then apply. Why would a person even take the test if they knew they couldnt pass it in the first place?

How are they going to go to rehab when they don't have medical insurance or money to pay?
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:13 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:For what seems like the 6789th time, you're not helping by punishing. You help by rehab. I could give you example after example of how that has worked in Portugal, Netherlands, and other places, but since its not America it won't count for you. I should just move away and keep the American genepool pure.


for the 6790th time, rehab has been my position all along.

What the hell is it with you guys?

There is absolutely nothing about rehab in the Florida law. The FIRST time you are caught, you lose benefits for a year. The second time, for 3 years.


what do you mean "nothing about rehab". Can you please say that a different way I don't know what you mean there.

you go into rehab first, then apply. Why would a person even take the test if they knew they couldnt pass it in the first place?

How are they going to go to rehab when they don't have medical insurance or money to pay?


Have I or have I not already listed a full page of 3 columns of free rehab in Florida?

How do you not know there are free rehab clinics everywhere? If I remember correctly Florida has at least 1 in every county...

Do you even know where all our tax money is going? How much is actually spent here on drug addicts?

The answer is to get clean. This economy can no longer tolerate blatant waste like this, and we need far fewer people sucking off the economy and maybe even more contributing to it.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Symmetry on Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:01 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Have I or have I not already listed a full page of 3 columns of free rehab in Florida?

How do you not know there are free rehab clinics everywhere? If I remember correctly Florida has at least 1 in every county...


Player must be some kind of moron if she doesn't know that Florida having at least one free clinic in each county isn't proof that there are free clinics everywhere. I can't figure out why Player wouldn't accept that as basic evidence.

Player- at least one in every county in Florida. That's everywhere.

Hippy scum.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
User avatar
Sergeant Symmetry
 
Posts: 9255
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:49 am

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:03 am

Phatscotty wrote:55$ in order to get a free 300$ check every month for years adding up to $10,000's?

Tyranny!


Note the regression back to the "It doesn't cost that much" argument.
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby natty dread on Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:31 am

Phatscotty wrote:The answer is to get clean. This economy can no longer tolerate blatant waste like this, and we need far fewer people sucking off the economy and maybe even more contributing to it.


What this economy cannot tolerate is the continuous wasting of resources on this silly war on drugs. Continuous prosecuting of non-violent criminals whose only crime is that they disagree with the government on what substance they want to get high on. Continuous flow of money to organized crime who is the #1 profiteer of the war on drugs.

Legalize and fix the economy!
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:25 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Have I or have I not already listed a full page of 3 columns of free rehab in Florida?

How do you not know there are free rehab clinics everywhere? If I remember correctly Florida has at least 1 in every county...
Perhaps because the link you provided no longer works, and when I tried to verify it, what I got was this:
When it comes time to choosing a drug rehab center for yourself or a loved one it can be a very difficult and confusing time. No one ever wants to admit to the world that they have a problem with drugs or alcohol. But that is a necessary step to getting clean. But which Florida drug rehab do you go to? Which , Florida drug rehab center specializes in my addiction? Some Florida rehabs specialize in only alcohol dependency, while other drug rehabs specialize in opiate abuse including Methadone, Vicodin, Oxycontin, Percocet, Heroin, Hydrocodone, and Oxycodone, while still other drug rehab centers focus on popular club drugs including Cocaine, Ecstasy, GHB, Meth, Crack, and others. Drug rehab selection can be a very difficult and expensive decision. Be certain you do extensive research on your , Florida drug rehab center of choice.


Phatscotty wrote:Do you even know where all our tax money is going? How much is actually spent here on drug addicts?
apparently better than you. The money is going to the stupid war on drugs... particularly focused on marihuana, which is completely stupid.

Phatscotty wrote:The answer is to get clean. This economy can no longer tolerate blatant waste like this, and we need far fewer people sucking off the economy and maybe even more contributing to it.

Yes... folks like you need to come clean and finally admit that you really do not know what you are talking about.

The Florida case is particularly aggregious because this guy promoting it has a vested interest in the testing company he is promoting. OH... and let's not forget he wants to extend this to all public employees!

Companies around here, dealing with various hazardous stuff, have drug testing. They test everyone who gets a job and can test anyone else (though in practice, they only test periodically and with cause). They do not, however , make any pretense about it saving money for anyone. It is a safety issue.

This is not. There is no safety in cutting off food to people who need it.
Corporal PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:48 pm

Right, and when we get around to shutting down the IRS and it costs 50 million to close it down, I suppose I will be a hypocrite cuz how can I be for lower spending and want to spend an extra 50 mil to close down the IRS....
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Drug Tests for Welfare Applicants?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:59 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Have I or have I not already listed a full page of 3 columns of free rehab in Florida?

How do you not know there are free rehab clinics everywhere? If I remember correctly Florida has at least 1 in every county...


Player must be some kind of moron if she doesn't know that Florida having at least one free clinic in each county isn't proof that there are free clinics everywhere. I can't figure out why Player wouldn't accept that as basic evidence.

Player- at least one in every county in Florida. That's everywhere.

Hippy scum.


No need to call names. Just pointing out I have already posted a long list of free clinics, at least 1 in every county, and that was just the first clinic chain that came up. There are many many other free clinics as well.

I suppose that isn't good enough tho maybe there needs to be one on every corner. You guys's cynicism is blinding.
User avatar
Major Phatscotty
 
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Acceptable Content

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users