Ukraine unbroken three years into Putin's War

[saxitoxin]

That doesn't make it right to let him exterminate the freedom of others.

It actively started taking the early steps that regimes throughout history have taken when preparing for an ethnic cleansing.

To call the actions of the Ukrainians as preparing for ethnic cleansing with these action is simply wrong and clearly obfuscation.

In light of the mass starvation of MILLIONS of Ukrainians in the 1930s, such hyperbole is RIDICULOUS and totally MISLEADING. This was a massive crime against humanity.

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

[saxitoxin]

Myths and Facts about Ukraine's "Security Guarantees"

MYTH: Ukraine gave-up its nuclear weapons.
FACT: The nuclear weapons were Russian property as the internationally recognized successor state to the Soviet Union. They happened to be located on Ukrainian territory but they were never "Ukraine's." No nation on Earth ever recognized the weapons as Ukrainian property, other than Ukraine itself.

MYTH: Ukraine was in physical possession of the weapons.
FACT: The weapons were located on Uke territory but were guarded by troops of the 43rd Red Banner Rocket Army commanded by Colonel-General Vladimir Mikhtyuk. Mikhtyuk did not transfer his allegiance to the Ukrainian armed forces until three years after Ukraine declared independence -- and after Ukraine agreed to transfer the weapons back to Russia.

MYTH: Ukraine could have seized control of the weapons and used them if the West didn't give it security guarantees.
FACT: Soviet weapons had to be constantly "plugged in" to the Kazbek control grid. Interruption would cause a failsafe to activate, rendering the weapon useless. They also had complex locking mechanisms to prevent arming without orders from Moscow. A 1993 Ukrainian study estimated it would take Ukraine a minimum of 15 years to successfully arm any of the weapons. Numerous Soviet defectors have testified how it was technically impossible for a stolen, captured, or lost Soviet weapon to ever be armed.

MYTH: Ukraine demanded security guarantees as a condition of transferring the weapons back to Russia.
FACT: In 1991, Uke Foreign Minister Anatoliy Zlenko said that Ukraine wanted the nuclear weapons on its territory removed ASAP --- years before the Budapest agreement was ever discussed.

MYTH: The U.S. gave Ukraine security guarantees if it sent the weapons back to Russia.
FACT: In the Budapest memorandum, the U.S. only made two guarantees to Ukraine - (1) the U.S. would, itself, not attack Ukraine, (2) the U.S. would ask the United Nations to defend Ukraine if Ukraine were attacked with nuclear weapons. If the U.S. cuts off every dollar of assistance to Ukraine today (like it did) it would still be in full compliance with its obligations to Ukraine.

[Silvertop]

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?[/quote]

And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Russian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's.

[jusplay4fun]

That doesn't make it right to let him exterminate the freedom of others.

It actively started taking the early steps that regimes throughout history have taken when preparing for an ethnic cleansing.

To call the actions of the Ukrainians as preparing for ethnic cleansing with these action is simply wrong and clearly obfuscation.

In light of the mass starvation of MILLIONS of Ukrainians in the 1930s, such hyperbole is RIDICULOUS and totally MISLEADING. This was a massive crime against humanity.

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And you think that Ukrainians forgot this or other Russian atrocities? And NOT a single Russian responsible for the 1930 starvation of Ukrainians? You want me to believe THAT?

and

It was the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, among the most notorious — and wanted — units in the Russian military. The 53rd is best known for its role in shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 in 2014 as it flew over Ukraine en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. All 298 passengers and crew died

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/18/1162659715/russian-53rd-anti-aircraft-missile-brigade-ukraine-mh17#:~:text=It%20was%20the%2053rd%20Anti,298%20passengers%20and%20crew%20died.

And Russians HAD to seize Crimea?

A decade ago, President Vladimir Putin seized Crimea from Ukraine, a bold land grab that set the stage for Russia to invade its neighbor in 2022.

The quick and bloodless seizure of the diamond-shaped peninsula, home to Russia’s Black Sea fleet and a popular vacation site, touched off a wave of patriotism and sent Putin’s popularity soaring.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-putin-ukraine-crimea-seizure-8245aec572fb71236febfa8735c42879

And of course, the actions of the citizens of Eastern Ukraine, near Russia, HAD NO support from Russians?

What other Russian LIES and propoganda you want me to believe, saxi?

[kennyp72]

On December 5 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia. Educate yourselves on the promises our country (and others) have made and what it means for diplomacy!

Whilst educating yourself maybe also look at the promises that were made to the former USSR when the 'iron curtain' fell in relation to NATO and its boundaries.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, the West was duplicitous in creating the Russian oligarchy, and by extension, leading to the rise of Putin. That doesn't make it right to let him exterminate the freedom of others.

While you're doing all your studying, read of Mice and Men. The West has an obligation to clean up the mess and put down the rabid dog it helped to spawn.

Of mice and men.

I read that as an 11 year old in Grammar School...

Try War Is A Racket.

[kennyp72]

That doesn't make it right to let him exterminate the freedom of others.

It actively started taking the early steps that regimes throughout history have taken when preparing for an ethnic cleansing.

To call the actions of the Ukrainians as preparing for ethnic cleansing with these action is simply wrong and clearly obfuscation.

In light of the mass starvation of MILLIONS of Ukrainians in the 1930s, such hyperbole is RIDICULOUS and totally MISLEADING. This was a massive crime against humanity.

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

All a certain religion?

[kennyp72]

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Russian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's.[/quote]


Stalin was Georgian...not Russian.

Ukraine had been bombing ethnic Russian in Ukraine since at least 2014...when the US orchestrated a coup in the country.

[Silvertop]

ok so it was a Georgian executioner, he was in command of USSR. That's irrelevant here, being commander of USSR that is relevant.
This still stands : "And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Georgian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's"

[ConfederateSS]

---------The reason outside Biden wasn't really President...A poor excuse for one... Russia/Soviet Union invaded Ukraine, because when places were leaving after Reagan kick their ass...They never should of let the Ukraine leave their Empire....The Ukraine was equal to the Heartland of The USA...It was the Empire's Breadbasket...When Biden F*cked up, in Afghanistan, a defeat worse than Custer at The Little Big Horn... Making the Afghanistan pull out America's worst defeat...Putin saw his chance...But he had to wait to invade...Not to ruin his buddy Eleven (XI)'s Olympics...Not to piss China off...If Putin was strong on his own, screw China...Putin would of taken the Ukraine in 3 days...By the time he went...The build up at the border, In the news...like Biden saying, no big moves in that region please...The Ukraine was able to put up some sort of defense...That slowed Putin down...
------------ TRUMP was right...to do what he did... Zelensky came...like he was talking to Biden...Chest out...Give me money... TRUMP shut him up... Without The USA... Ukraine will be crushed...All the Democratic cry babies... TRUMP was horrible to Zelensky....No, the Democrats have been playing with Zelensky, and the lives of Ukrainians...And young Russians... TRUMP has an economic plan... Minerals...Once America has its foot in the Ukraine...Putin will back off...As TRUMP said, "With America, Ukraine has cards at the negotiation table..."....Just like the last time TRUMP was in office...He brought peace to the Middle East through economics... Something no one tried before....It took a business man to come up with that idea...
---------- Another thing , Zelensky doesn't come to America....Tell America how we are going to feel...Shove it in VP Vance's face... That's when TRUMP really let Zelensky have it...You respect the country that is going to save your ass... Unlike Democrats.... TRUMP PUTS AMERICA FIRST ...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
---------THE LAST TIME TRUMP WAS IN OFFICE...NO WARS STARTED UNDER HIM...HE KNOWS HOW TO BRING PEACE......It all comes down to money...The Art of The Deal...

[kennyp72]

ok so it was a Georgian executioner, he was in command of USSR. That's irrelevant here, being commander of USSR that is relevant.
This still stands : "And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Georgian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's"

He was Georgian.

Not Russian.

Totally relevant, actually.

[jusplay4fun]

[Pack Rat]

The difference between Trump and Zelenskyy

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT2xBJPN3/

[saxitoxin]

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Russian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's.

LOL I literally just said he was Georgian.

You guys just use "Russian" as a synonym for "bad guy."

"I can't stand Russians like Hitler, Genghis Khan, Caligula, Benedict Arnold, and the Zodiac Killer!"

[saxitoxin]

That doesn't make it right to let him exterminate the freedom of others.

It actively started taking the early steps that regimes throughout history have taken when preparing for an ethnic cleansing.

To call the actions of the Ukrainians as preparing for ethnic cleansing with these action is simply wrong and clearly obfuscation.

In light of the mass starvation of MILLIONS of Ukrainians in the 1930s, such hyperbole is RIDICULOUS and totally MISLEADING. This was a massive crime against humanity.

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And you think that Ukrainians forgot this or other Russian atrocities? And NOT a single Russian responsible for the 1930 starvation of Ukrainians? You want me to believe THAT?

You don't have to believe that. I just named the four ringleaders. You're free to prove me wrong.

(and I'd ask "what other Russian atrocities" but I'm guessing the answer would be as vague and non-specific as the identities of the mystery Russians who allegedly forced a Georgian, a Pole, and two Ukrainians to starve Ukraine because something something)

[mookiemcgee]

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Russian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's.

LOL I literally just said he was Georgian.

You guys just use "Russian" as a synonym for "bad guy."

"I can't stand Russians like Hitler, Genghis Khan, Caligula, Benedict Arnold, and the Zodiac Killer!"

You don't have to call me out personally like that Saxi.

[Dukasaur]

That doesn't make it right to let him exterminate the freedom of others.

It actively started taking the early steps that regimes throughout history have taken when preparing for an ethnic cleansing.

To call the actions of the Ukrainians as preparing for ethnic cleansing with these action is simply wrong and clearly obfuscation.

In light of the mass starvation of MILLIONS of Ukrainians in the 1930s, such hyperbole is RIDICULOUS and totally MISLEADING. This was a massive crime against humanity.

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And you think that Ukrainians forgot this or other Russian atrocities? And NOT a single Russian responsible for the 1930 starvation of Ukrainians? You want me to believe THAT?

You don't have to believe that. I just named the four ringleaders. You're free to prove me wrong.

(and I'd ask "what other Russian atrocities" but I'm guessing the answer would be as vague and non-specific as the identities of the mystery Russians who allegedly forced a Georgian, a Pole, and two Ukrainians to starve Ukraine because something something)

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.CHAP.1.HTM#:~:text=In%20sum%2C%20probably%20somewhere%20between,the%20table%20(line%2094).

In sum, probably somewhere between 28,326,000 and 126,891,000 people were killed by the Communist Party of the soviet Union from 1917 to 1987; and a most prudent estimate of this number is 61,911,000.

[saxitoxin]

In sum, probably somewhere between 28,326,000 and 126,891,000 people were killed by the Communist Party of the soviet Union from 1917 to 1987; and a most prudent estimate of this number is 61,911,000.

1. Question 1: is this the same Soviet Union that was ruled for over half of its existence by a Georgian (Stalin) and a Ukrainian (Brezhnev)?

2. Question 2: how many of the dead were Russian?

[Dukasaur]

In sum, probably somewhere between 28,326,000 and 126,891,000 people were killed by the Communist Party of the soviet Union from 1917 to 1987; and a most prudent estimate of this number is 61,911,000.

1. Question 1: is this the same Soviet Union that was ruled for over half of its existence by a Georgian (Stalin) and a Ukrainian (Brezhnev)?

2. Question 2: how many of the dead were Russian?

1. Stalin never cared much about Georgia after he became leader of the Soviet Union as a whole. He had some Georgian friends and occasionally vacationed in Sochi, but otherwise didn't give Georgia any special attention. Brezhnev was born within the political boundaries of Ukraine, but as his memoirs make clear, always considered himself Russian, not Ukrainian.

2. Quite a few victims of the various purges were Russian, of course. But Ukrainians were always treated more harshly than other nationalities. Gypsies, Jews, and Tatars were also especially persecuted, but nothing compares to the tens of millions of Ukrainians murdered.

[saxitoxin]

Great news!

During tonight's State of the Union address, President Trump read aloud a letter of fealty he just received from Zelensky this afternoon in which Zelensky pledged to place himself under President Trump's orders regarding the future of Ukraine! He withered and caved in 72 hours!

↓



America approves of Trump with numbers not seen outside the DPRK.



By the same percentage, Americans approved of Trump ordering members of Congress who expressed disloyalty to the MAGA ideal dragged from the floor of the House!

[Silvertop]

ok so it was a Georgian executioner, he was in command of USSR. That's irrelevant here, being commander of USSR that is relevant.
This still stands : "And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Georgian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's"

He was Georgian.

Not Russian.

Totally relevant, actually.

He was a person from USSR, then called the Russians. Who do you think fought in WWII for USSR only Russians? No, every other part of USSR fought like Georgians, Belarussians, ....

[Silvertop]

The 1930s?!

Yeah, I don't buy that Ukraine had to ban the Russian language in 2018 due to a famine that'd been over for 80 years. But let's say I did ...

The nation responsible for the famine was the Soviet Union (hasn't existed since 1992).

The people most responsible were Stalin (who was Georgian), Lazar Kaganovich (Ukrainian), Stanisław Kosior (Polish), and Vlas Chubar (Ukrainian).

At least two million Russians in Russia died of starvation at the same time as the Ukraine famine.

So by what twisted logic is all -- or any -- of this Russia's fault?

And that's the reason for Putin to invade Ukraine and tell them they are nazi's? Stalin was Russian and murdered his own people, thats at least as bad as the nazi's.

LOL I literally just said he was Georgian.

You guys just use "Russian" as a synonym for "bad guy."

"I can't stand Russians like Hitler, Genghis Khan, Caligula, Benedict Arnold, and the Zodiac Killer!"

Yes he was Georgian. Was he the leader of the USSR? Yes he was. When the "Russians" started to fight back were they only Russians, no that were soldiers from USSR ( Georgians, Bellorussians,...). And "real" Russian Marshalls. The Soviet Union took Berlin, also known as the Russians (no matter what part of USSR).

[saxitoxin]

He was a person from USSR, then called the Russians.

Guys, who was your favorite Californian --- Mark Twain or Abraham Lincoln?

[Pack Rat]

We will let you choose Saxi, as only you can spin those long tales like no one can.

[saxitoxin]

We will let you choose Saxi, as only you can spin those long tales like no one can.

Absolutely no judgment at all, but I've been curious -- and a few others have also asked -- do you have a learning disability? You keep referring to people posting "long tales," usually in reference to a nine or 10 word post. There's no shame, if so.

[Dukasaur]